HAL offers 40 more Sukhoi-30s at one-third Rafale’s cost

[Jugger]

Once Pakistan is more powerful than India, India would then start considering Maldives as its enemy.

...!?
I can’t even understand what you’re trying to state....
Not logical.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

U are missing the point here.I am mere speculating about allocation of the resources.
If u want an aesa in a jaguar and are spending huge bucks for it,u want it in a point defence fighter like mk1 then its criminal and stupid to delay that on big frontline fighters like mki and mig-29k.......tejas or jags are not gonna establish air superiority for us and with huge rcs of both mki and mig, its imperative that we get the first lock.

Regarding the aesa on jf-17.......its a matter of another 5-7 years,eventually all fighters will be upgraded.

On J-20 stealth,it has better stealth features than pakfa atleast on paper and probably even F-35 except those canards.Still we are at massive disadvantage if at all there is an all out war.Never count the chinese out,they have beaten russians and most of the europeans in electronics already and its a matter of time this translates into the defence sector(probably already has).



FGFA was always a doomed idea when we dont want to pay for development.
No other 5 th gen has 2 pilots operation which we wanted.Plus needless stipulations on tot when its perfectly clear there is a limit to the tot.
Now it will be off the shelf purchase and make in india just like mki.There is no other option and rafale cannot fill the su-57 role especially after j-20 and maybe a future j-31.

Agreed on the jags.I believe the jags are intended to be used as standalone low level penetration fighters against pak and thats why asraam and aesa was added.Plus radar is common with tejas.

Not even close on chinese electronics being on par with european.
J20 doesn't have rear stealth,canards on front and exposed engines.This makes it detectable easily by IRST trackers of non stealth aircraft because it also doesn't have supercruise.Engines are not shielded like f-35 or f-22.

 

[he-man]

Engines are not shielded like f-35 or f-22.

They are, also LOAN nozzles are used unlike the pakfa.
They have the money,resources and talent to compete and beat anyone except USA at th moment.Its a sad reality but anyways we are discussing use of our limited budget here.

 

[SingaporeGuy]

If india doesnt view china as enemy then su-30 is more than sufficient.

If india does then view china as enemy then rafales wont be enough

 

[nang2]

If india doesnt view china as enemy then su-30 is more than sufficient.

If india does then view china as enemy then rafales wont be enough

What if India somewhat views China as an enemy?

 

[he-man]

What if India somewhat views China as an enemy?

India is not stupid as pakistan to not realize that we are 4 times smaller than china if economy is concerned.So no,we dont want china as an enemy.
On the other hand its in chinese interests not to court india as potentially india is the future competitor of china maybe 30 years down the line.No one knows what future holds though,we can do very well or just fail to take off.

 

[PurpleStone]

They are, also LOAN nozzles are used unlike the pakfa.
They have the money,resources and talent to compete and beat anyone except USA at th moment.Its a sad reality but anyways we are discussing use of our limited budget here.

Unfortunately many people grossly underestimate the technological strides made by China in the last few decades.

 

[srshkmr]

Put on hold by Modi. Will be revived by Rahul after 2019 elections.

In that case i can see that we are not getting Super SU till the end of my lifetime.

 

[KAI KAI Baloch]

What we need are 80 more Su30s, not 40.

40 with new engine and radar.
40 which are BrahMos capable with new engine and radar.

Then move onto upgrade entire fleet with other improvements for Super MKI.

Gaganshakti has proved that availability isn't an issue.

Can you please quote how much time it require to prepare for the exercise??????

 

[Storm Force]

Too much hype over Chinese technology

Unproven untested and budget

No body buys Chinease air power but the p
Poorest of air forces.

One rafale will eat three thunders regardless of Chinease built aesa or not.

A fighter us far .one than radar
How about Rcs
Jammers
Ew suites
Warning receivers
Engine efficiency
Twr
Advanced ram jet Bvr like Meteore.

Indians decision to buy rafale followed a huge assessment of typhoon block 70.and f15 and f18 hornets .it was not a knee-jerk purchase but a through programme

 

[KAI KAI Baloch]

Too much hype over Chinese technology

Unproven untested and budget

No body buys Chinease air power but the p
Poorest of air forces.

One rafale will eat three thunders regardless of Chinease built aesa or not.

A fighter us far .one than radar
How about Rcs
Jammers
Ew suites
Warning receivers
Engine efficiency
Twr
Advanced ram jet Bvr like Meteore.

Indians decision to buy rafale followed a huge assessment of typhoon block 70.and f15 and f18 hornets .it was not a knee-jerk purchase but a through programme

indeed it was very detailed and long program!! but wasnt the rafale out of the competition during the first phases.... and please tell me did the program achieve its objective??

 

[he-man]

Indians decision to buy rafale followed a huge assessment of typhoon block 70.and f15 and f18 hornets .it was not a knee-jerk purchase but a through programme

1)What a laughable statement,the first one....no one is anyways suggesting that rafale is not the best 4.5 generation out there.And for the love of god rafale is a counter to china and not pakistan,we dont need rafale vs JF-17,its required against J-20'S and J-31.

2)The posts are about the relative old inventory/subsystems and avionics of the frontline jets i.e su-30 mki and mig-29k.

3)IAF should know the defence budget restrictions better,for a country with paltry budget of 40-50 billion $ and that too mainly going in salaries and such benefits we must get the priorities right.Especially with tumbling growth rate of 6%.When the tender of mmrca was floated the country was growing at 9% on avearge and it was 10 years back with no guarantee on tejas or any plans for amca development.Now we have plans for mk1,mk1a,mk2,amca,su-57/fgfa and also buying rafale.No airforce on earth is this stupid and diversified,its actually baffling.
On the top of that we got super costly upgrades for mirage 2000 and those have just 12-15 years left.

4)On chinese electronics,no need to be an ostrich,we have to acknowledge the huge leap they have taken in everything not just over us but in general.

5)Rafale can have the best avionics in class but with an rcs of 20 times compared to the 5 th generation(on account of the external weapons and fuel tanks............clean configuration probably has very low rcs but u cant fight war with ur gun only) it simply will be detected first every time vs a fighter jet with weapons that are inside the weapons bay.What the heck is so difficult to understand here??

6)By spending just 4-5 billion $ we could have elevated the older mki's and mig-29k to 4.5 generation standard and although they still wont be as potent as rafale 1 vs 1 but think of the numbers here.We have 230+ mki's and 60 odd mig-29k.So u would have had state of the art 300+ jets.Thats the point i was trying to make.Now with all the funds diverted to 10's of other unnecessary projects we have delayed this for years and even when they are upgraded we will try to be economical.

IAF will be operating/looking to operate

Rafale
mirage 2000
mki
Mig-29k
Tejas mk1,1a,2
AMCA
Possibly su-57 in future

This is messed up at so many levels especially with a paltry defence budget.As a result of this we are unable to upgrade majority of the fleet.Something has to suffer obviously.

So in future we need to lock on either su-57 or amca.......doing both wont be feasable and will just divide the budget and lead to an inferior product.

 

[Daghalodi]

1)What a laughable statement,the first one....no one is anyways suggesting that rafale is not the best 4.5 generation out there.And for the love of god rafale is a counter to china and not pakistan,we dont need rafale vs JF-17,its required against J-20'S and J-31.

2)The posts are about the relative old inventory/subsystems and avionics of the frontline jets i.e su-30 mki and mig-29k.

3)IAF should know the defence budget restrictions better,for a country with paltry budget of 40-50 billion $ and that too mainly going in salaries and such benefits we must get the priorities right.Especially with tumbling growth rate of 6%.When the tender of mmrca was floated the country was growing at 9% on avearge and it was 10 years back with no guarantee on tejas or any plans for amca development.Now we have plans for mk1,mk1a,mk2,amca,su-57/fgfa and also buying rafale.No airforce on earth is this stupid and diversified,its actually baffling.
On the top of that we got super costly upgrades for mirage 2000 and those have just 12-15 years left.

4)On chinese electronics,no need to be an ostrich,we have to acknowledge the huge leap they have taken in everything not just over us but in general.

5)Rafale can have the best avionics in class but with an rcs of 20 times compared to the 5 th generation(on account of the external weapons and fuel tanks............clean configuration probably has very low rcs but u cant fight war with ur gun only) it simply will be detected first every time vs a fighter jet with weapons that are inside the weapons bay.What the heck is so difficult to understand here??

6)By spending just 4-5 billion $ we could have elevated the older mki's and mig-29k to 4.5 generation standard and although they still wont be as potent as rafale 1 vs 1 but think of the numbers here.We have 230+ mki's and 60 odd mig-29k.So u would have had state of the art 300+ jets.Thats the point i was trying to make.Now with all the funds diverted to 10's of other unnecessary projects we have delayed this for years and even when they are upgraded we will try to be economical.

IAF will be operating/looking to operate

Rafale
mirage 2000
mki
Mig-29k
Tejas mk1,1a,2
AMCA
Possibly su-57 in future

This is messed up at so many levels especially with a paltry defence budget.As a result of this we are unable to upgrade majority of the fleet.Something has to suffer obviously.

So in future we need to lock on either su-57 or amca.......doing both wont be feasable and will just divide the budget and lead to an inferior product.

Whats is Amca and how many of those do you in your inventory right now?

 

[Storm Force]

1)What a laughable statement,the first one....no one is anyways suggesting that rafale is not the best 4.5 generation out there.And for the love of god rafale is a counter to china and not pakistan,we dont need rafale vs JF-17,its required against J-20'S and J-31.

2)The posts are about the relative old inventory/subsystems and avionics of the frontline jets i.e su-30 mki and mig-29k.

3)IAF should know the defence budget restrictions better,for a country with paltry budget of 40-50 billion $ and that too mainly going in salaries and such benefits we must get the priorities right.Especially with tumbling growth rate of 6%.When the tender of mmrca was floated the country was growing at 9% on avearge and it was 10 years back with no guarantee on tejas or any plans for amca development.Now we have plans for mk1,mk1a,mk2,amca,su-57/fgfa and also buying rafale.No airforce on earth is this stupid and diversified,its actually baffling.
On the top of that we got super costly upgrades for mirage 2000 and those have just 12-15 years left.

4)On chinese electronics,no need to be an ostrich,we have to acknowledge the huge leap they have taken in everything not just over us but in general.

5)Rafale can have the best avionics in class but with an rcs of 20 times compared to the 5 th generation(on account of the external weapons and fuel tanks............clean configuration probably has very low rcs but u cant fight war with ur gun only) it simply will be detected first every time vs a fighter jet with weapons that are inside the weapons bay.What the heck is so difficult to understand here??

6)By spending just 4-5 billion $ we could have elevated the older mki's and mig-29k to 4.5 generation standard and although they still wont be as potent as rafale 1 vs 1 but think of the numbers here.We have 230+ mki's and 60 odd mig-29k.So u would have had state of the art 300+ jets.Thats the point i was trying to make.Now with all the funds diverted to 10's of other unnecessary projects we have delayed this for years and even when they are upgraded we will try to be economical.

IAF will be operating/looking to operate

Rafale
mirage 2000
mki
Mig-29k
Tejas mk1,1a,2
AMCA
Possibly su-57 in future

This is messed up at so many levels especially with a paltry defence budget.As a result of this we are unable to upgrade majority of the fleet.Something has to suffer obviously.

So in future we need to lock on either su-57 or amca.......doing both wont be feasable and will just divide the budget and lead to an inferior product.

The future of the Iaf

Is

mki mlu
Tejss mark1a and two

Rafale

One Fgfa or amca

Everything else will be gone

The defense budget is 60 billion dollars per year and seven times what Pakistan can spend currently the seventh largest in the world