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HAL LCH| Updates and Discussions

It would interest me if omponents like FLIR, RWR, LWR and Avionics are Indian made or purchsed from abroad ?

As far as I know most of them are Indian and few are JVs,


CCD camera+FLIR+Laser range finder+Laser designator (TADS): Indian. Developed by Defence Avionics Research Establishment (DRDO).

Countermeasure Dispensing System (CMDS): Indian. Developed by DRDO.

Directional Infrared Countermeasure (DIRCM): This laser based DIRCM is a JV between DARE (DRDO) and a foreign partner.

Digital Video Recording System (DVRS): Indian. Most probably developed by HAL.

Missile Approach Warning System (MAWS): A JV between DARE and EADS.

Radar Warning Receiver (RWR): Indian. Developed by DARE (DRDO).

Laser Warning Receiver (LWR): Indian. Developed by DARE (DRDO).

Infrared/Laser missile jammer: Planned. Most probably Indian.

Datalink : Indian. Most probably developed by Defence Electronics Application Laboratory (DEAL)/Bharat Electronics Limited.

Helmet Mounted Sight: Don't know.

other avionics are Indian as well.
 
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Chief Test pilot Unni Pillai, who put the LCH to some rigorous and extreme maneuver tasks today, said he has flow many helicopters and other aircrafts, but not something as good, and exciting as the LCH. It is brilliant and far more better that what I have flown till date. :cool:
 
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I think weaponized Dhruv is under trial, Need help in clarifying it..however

16 is not true as Dhruv only uses 8. So if the HELINA is not inducted then MILAN will be used. howver I dont know if the MILAN will be air launched, coz MBDA has Brimestone as airlaunch platform. Which is as good as and at least better than hell fire missiles currently used by US army...

Milan is not an air launched missile, it is only for IA, Brimstone could be an alternative, but GER and FRA could offer us als PARS 3, which their Tiger uses.

Will the missiles be carried in 2's as shown in the LCH pic or in quad packs as shown in this pic..?

Mayb we can go for LAHAT(in pic) missile as a common platform for both Arjun and LCH.

The LCH mock up used twin pylons for ATGM, LAHAT is possible with these quad pylons, but it is only a light ATGM (warhead weighs 4.5Kg, Nag warhead has a weight of 8Kg), if we chose an Israeli ATGM it should be Spike.
However, we also have to keep in mind the MTOW of the helicopter and the weight of such missile packs. This also limits the weapon load and that's why heavy attack helicopter like the Apache can carry 16 ATGMs, instead of 8 like the light once.
 
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As far as I know most of them are Indian and few are JVs,


CCD camera+FLIR+Laser range finder+Laser designator (TADS): Indian. Developed by Defence Avionics Research Establishment (DRDO).

Countermeasure Dispensing System (CMDS): Indian. Developed by DRDO.

Directional Infrared Countermeasure (DIRCM): This laser based DIRCM is a JV between DARE (DRDO) and a foreign partner.

Digital Video Recording System (DVRS): Indian. Most probably developed by HAL.

Missile Approach Warning System (MAWS): A JV between DARE and EADS.

Radar Warning Receiver (RWR): Indian. Developed by DARE (DRDO).

Laser Warning Receiver (LWR): Indian. Developed by DARE (DRDO).

Infrared/Laser missile jammer: Planned. Most probably Indian.

Datalink : Indian. Most probably developed by Defence Electronics Application Laboratory (DEAL)/Bharat Electronics Limited.

Helmet Mounted Sight: Don't know.

other avionics are Indian as well.



What about MFD'S, Communication devices, Cyriptos, Mission Computer, cockpit user interfaces ? Do you know whether It has Moving Map and Obstacle detection technologies or not ?

What is the IR detector technology level of your FLIR (LWIR, MWIR, QWIP) ?
 
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LCH will have a MMW radar on mast ?

No it wont , radar was planned but later dropped . Targeting will be through thru Optronics pod .

What about MFD'S, Communication devices, Cyriptos, Mission Computer, cockpit user interfaces ? Do you know whether It has Moving Map and Obstacle detection technologies or not ?

What is the IR detector technology level of your FLIR (LWIR, MWIR, QWIP) ?

MFD will be provided by SAMTEL INDIA
MISSION COMPUTER by DARE
DATALINKS - Indian but performance is classified ,

FLIR range and resolution data is classified , so will have to wait for that
 
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No it wont , radar was planned but later dropped . Targeting will be through thru Optronics pod .

Prateek, can you share more information on the Optronics pod. What are its capabilities and what is the range of its sensor systems. How does it help in battle conditions ?
:cheers:
 
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No it wont , radar was planned but later dropped . Targeting will be through thru Optronics pod .

Doesn't , that mean all targeting will be limited to within the horizon.

Also , how will this affect their detection of enemy units , without a radar Isn't their field of vision severely limited.
 
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Prateek, can you share more information on the Optronics pod. What are its capabilities and what is the range of its sensor systems. How does it help in battle conditions ?
:cheers:

Data of LCH - OPTRONICS pod , as i said earlier is classified . We don't know its range , wavelength of operation, resolution etc .

How does it help in battle conditions

The first Query , how it works Well ,
If you know something about Targeting Pod on Fighter jets , it would have been easier .

Optronics Pod essentially comprises 2-3 components a
-FLIR / [(IRST)what we call in general ]
Wikipedia FLIR to learn how it works , in short FLIR is must for darkness.
-Laser Range-finder LRF
-Laser Range-Designator (LRF/D)

In case of LCH Optronics Turret is on NOSE - like this
P1010131-757899.JPG

It is this placement of the sensors on the nose LCH that is the major drawback of this sensor suite. Pod location on this part of the airframe requires the LCH to completely unmask itself from cover in order to use this sensors.

Apache would be a good example to explain it better -
Apache2.jpg

In case of Apache there are two sensors in place on two different Turrets . These are
TADS -Target Acquisition and Designation System (TADS)
PNVS- Pilot Night Vision System (PNVS)
The PNVS is mounted above the nose structure of the aircraft, while the larger TADS turret occupies the underside of the nose section

For PNVS - use Wikipedia to learn how it works , in short
The (PNVS) consists of a Forward Looking Infrared (FLIR) device that turns night into day for the pilot, a critical function for an aircraft which often must travel low and fast in order to survive .

TADS - comprises of a FLIR device, two types of optical cameras, and a Laser Range-finder/Designator (LRF/D) . Entire assembly is divided into night (starboard) and day (port) halves, each capable of independent elevation .

64d-tads.jpg


DAYLIGHT SYSTEM( see above image ) - On the port side are three sensors for the detection and tracking of targets when there is daylight. They are mounted in a vertical column and consist of the Direct View Optics (DVO) sensor at the top, a TV optical sensor (DTV) below, and a laser range-finder/designator at the bottom. The DVO is an optical telescope with two magnifications: x4 magnification at 18 deg. FoV, or x16 magnification at 4 deg. FoV.
The TV optical sensor offers up to x127 magnification with a corresponding FoV of 0.45 degrees.
The laser designator is a neodymium laser with an effective range of 20 km (12 miles) aser fulfills two specific functions. First, the laser designates targets for either its own missiles, or the missiles of another helicopter. Rather than operate in a continuous beam, the laser pulses in a pre-designated pattern. This "codes" that particular laser, distinguishing it from others. Missiles intended for that target are instructed to seek out that unique code, thus ensuring that they are guided to the correct target. Second, the laser acts as a range-finder, measuring the precise distance between aircraft and target.

NIGHT SYSTEM - see above image
The starboard side of the TADS system houses the FLIR sensor which provides slightly better imagery than the PNVS. This FLIR sensor provides variable field of views ranging between 50, 10, 3.1, and 1.6 degrees FoV. The FLIR of the TADS unit can be switched between "white hot" and "black hot" in order to provide better contrast against the surrounding terrain for increased target discrimination. An adjustable gain selection also aids in this target enhancement.

The imagry from the TADS unit can either be displayed on the co-pilot/gunner's own HMS/HUD unit, on one of the MFDs, or via the primary display for the gunner, the Optical Relay Tube (ORT). In addition, a video-recorder can collect information from all of the TADS sensors. As a result, the Helicoptor needs to unmask for only a short time to collect sensory input, which can be analysed in greater detail by the crew once the aircraft drops down behind cover once again. The recorder can also be used to record the aftermath of an attack for analysis upon return to base.

This is how Optronics Pod work .

For the second Query ,
Doesn't , that mean all targeting will be limited to within the horizon.Also , how will this affect their detection of enemy units , without a radar Isn't their field of vision severely limited.
Limitation of range -
That's not true bcoz even if MMw radar is provided it will only give an effective range of at max 10-12 KMS , only advantage a radar would have given is All weather mode thats it ,bcoz FLIR and LASER suffers in adverse condition .
And when there is significant Infrared-crossover when Temp of surrounding nears the object ,that can affect detection by IRST. These are the only condition where radar is better. Placing a radar has its own cons like Jamming etc .
For the range FLIR are known to work in Night at Long ranges , and LASER can target at 20kms range . And u have ATGM with max Range of 10Km or so . And till date no BVR firing by Helos is known .

For doubt regarding Limitation of View -
Look at the coverage of FLIR and Pod
FLIR sensor provides variable field of views ranging between 50, 10, 3.1, and 1.6 degrees FoV .
TADS can be steered 120 degrees to either side horizontally and +30 / -60 degrees vertically.
The drive mechanism of turret contain both a "course" gimbal for rapid tracking and a "fine" gimbal for precision tracking of targets.
In addition, both PNVS and TADS can be rotated to a rearward-facing position when not needed in order to preserve the optical components from the wear of particles in the aircraft's flightpath.
 
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As far as I know most of them are Indian and few are JVs,


CCD camera+FLIR+Laser range finder+Laser designator (TADS): Indian. Developed by Defence Avionics Research Establishment (DRDO).

Countermeasure Dispensing System (CMDS): Indian. Developed by DRDO.

Directional Infrared Countermeasure (DIRCM): This laser based DIRCM is a JV between DARE (DRDO) and a foreign partner.

Digital Video Recording System (DVRS): Indian. Most probably developed by HAL.

Missile Approach Warning System (MAWS): A JV between DARE and EADS.

Radar Warning Receiver (RWR): Indian. Developed by DARE (DRDO).

Laser Warning Receiver (LWR): Indian. Developed by DARE (DRDO).

Infrared/Laser missile jammer: Planned. Most probably Indian.

Datalink : Indian. Most probably developed by Defence Electronics Application Laboratory (DEAL)/Bharat Electronics Limited.

Helmet Mounted Sight: Don't know.

other avionics are Indian as well.

HMD must be samtel..... I dont know, as they are the Only Indian Company till now who Makes HMD's ...
 
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Extra maneuverability with stability to deliver weapons due to upgraded FCS .
New targeting system with Optronics and HMS for delivery . Better FLIR than armed Dhruv .
Better countermeasures built in from start inside , DIRCMS and RWR,LWR .most probably Israeli
Protection from NBC warfare as well.

What about armor protection against light artillary fire?
Druv doesnt have, LCH has.
I would say, ALH Dhruv is like a flying pick-up truck and LCH is flying tank. Dhruv is flexible and multi-purpose :tup:whereas LCH is a exclusive fighting machine.:sniper:
 
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What about MFD'S, Communication devices, Cyriptos, Mission Computer, cockpit user interfaces ? Do you know whether It has Moving Map and Obstacle detection technologies or not ?

What is the IR detector technology level of your FLIR (LWIR, MWIR, QWIP) ?

The MFD's are AMLCD, developed by Samtel-HAL joint venture company.

All the communication devices onboard all Indian aircrafts are Indian. If the aircraft is Indian or foreign doesn't matter. Example P-8I, C-130J, LCH, ALH, Su-30MKI etc.

Mission computer (MC) is Indian developed by DRDO. All most all the Indian choppers and fighters now have Indian MC.

Cyriptos? is it kryptos? encryption? All the military grade datalink are encrypted and secure. Its a part of datalink.

Cockpit: All the system are Indian I guess. They are well experianced in this area.

Don't know about obstacle detection but must have a digital moving map..... ALH Dhruv also have this.... seen in a pic....

Don't know about IR detection technology but different developed made few TADS (that include FLIR, CCD camera, LRF/LRD). For example this one is from Tata.... but the one onbord LCH might be developed by DRDO.

2luwi89.jpg
 
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HMD must be samtel..... I dont know, as they are the Only Indian Company till now who Makes HMD's ...

Correct sir. Samtel-HAL jointly make HMS. The Samtel-Thales JV is for TopSight-I I guess which is only for fighter aircrafts.
 
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