HAL issues RFI for Engines topower RTA regional aircraft

[AMCA]

Mahindra already owns a foreign Airplane company which produces 10 seater planes. But not sure if they produce engines.
I think its time DRDO and ISRO tap foreign talents like NASA, Boing, Lokheed Martin. We should conduct campus interviews in IIT, German and US universities.

ISRO has separate Institutions and universities to harness young Talent and its high Time DRDO follows the course. I dont support borrowing engineers from a foreign country especially when foreigners themselves look onto Indians for that matter..

I see no reason why PSU's cant seduce our talent pool the way Multi national companies do.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Exactly, if foreign co.s are not interested in JVs, at least Domestic Cos can tie up with PSUs to get the knowledge what the GTRE or NAL has gained and make improvement on those. See, Govt. can spend money even if the tech is not required but Private Cos cannot just fetter away their fund if there is no requirement. What about this? @Capt.Popeye

Every Private Aero Cos in the world develop their technology from Govt. support or from commerce driven thought (again support by the Govt.)



Exactly, if foreign co.s are not interested in JVs, at least Domestic Cos can tie up with PSUs to get the knowledge what the GTRE or NAL has gained and make improvement on those. See, Govt. can spend money even if the tech is not required but Private Cos cannot just fetter away their fund if there is no requirement. What about this? @Capt.Popeye

Every Private Aero Cos in the world develop their technology from Govt. support or from commerce driven thought (again support by the Govt.)

Yes; they can start work now on that. But when do you think that a viable turbo-prop engine will then get ready? 5 years or 10 years? The RFI has gone out NOW so that the design for the RTA can be frozen around the engine tomorrow.

 

[AMCA]

Yes; they can start work now on that. But when do you think that a viable turbo-prop engine will then get ready? 5 years or 10 years? The RFI has gone out NOW so that the design for the RTA can be frozen around the engine tomorrow.

National Aerospace Laboratories (NAL) is in talks with Pratt and Whitney of Canada to co-develop an Aircraft Engine for RTA-70 and RTA-90. I am not sure if the deal went through but the intentions are clear.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

National Aerospace Laboratories (NAL) is in talks with Pratt and Whitney of Canada to co-develop an Aircraft Engine for RTA-70 and RTA-90. I am not sure if the deal went through but the intentions are clear.

Has that deal gon through yet? Is it likely to go through in the foreseable future?
And how good do you think that NAL will be at developing (even co-developing) an Engine? Do they even have any engine specialists on their staff?

I could tell you about the Indian Labs work on developing turbo-chargers for auto engines; but that will be off-topic.......

 

[AMCA]

Has that deal gon through yet? Is it likely to go through in the foreseable future?
And how good do you think that NAL will be at developing (even co-developing) an Engine? Do they even have any engine specialists on their staff?

I could tell you about the Indian Labs work on developing turbo-chargers for auto engines; but that will be off-topic.......

NAL is a good organization and I know it for I have done my projects there but anyways that makes it off topic.

NAL should for all reason have Engineers specialized in the field of Engines and I quite not sure the force driving you to believe otherwise. I might sound quite fanboyish but the CSIR labs are pretty decent in what they do and achieve.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

ISRO has separate Institutions and universities to harness young Talent and its high Time DRDO follows the course. I dont support borrowing engineers from a foreign country especially when foreigners themselves look onto Indians for that matter..

I see no reason why PSU's cant seduce our talent pool the way Multi national companies do.

No. Use the best possible way of development possible. Many Indians, migrate to NASA and Aerospace companies, and after a few years, retire, and start a company of their own in defence or Aerospace field. There are a lot of companies started by Indians in USA. Its time, we have to borrow the idea. Invite foreigners, and after a few years, they can even start companies based in India. ISRO and DRDO should be completely independent. So that they can pool their resources according to their needs. We should invite foreign talent also, for faster development,

 

[Capt.Popeye]

NAL is a good organization and I know it for I have done my projects there but anyways that makes it off topic.

NAL should for all reason have Engineers specialized in the field of Engines and I quite not sure the force driving you to believe otherwise. I might sound quite fanboyish but the CSIR labs are pretty decent in what they do and achieve.

CSIR labs; yes and no. Some labs have done great work and some nothing too much, at different times under different Directors and more so under different DGs. I can tell you more about those exalted personalities; but that will be again off-topic. But do go and research how many pure aero-engine specialists are there in NAL; esp any with previous hands-on design experience with any manufacturer. That may be interesting.

 

[AMCA]

No. Use the best possible way of development possible. Many Indians, migrate to NASA and Aerospace companies, and after a few years, retire, and start a company of their own in defence or Aerospace field. There are a lot of companies started by Indians in USA. Its time, we have to borrow the idea. Invite foreigners, and after a few years, they can even start companies based in India. ISRO and DRDO should be completely independent. So that they can pool their resources according to their needs. We should invite foreign talent also, for faster development,

Tell me how you are going to afford foreigners when you are not in a position to afford your own people? besides, govt already pulls in a pool of experts from friendly nations for complex projects but to absorb the technology faster and to have a permanent place in history we need indigenous people from institutions like IIT and NIT.

 

[fsayed]

NAL talking to Pratt & Whitney to jointly develop aircraft engine
NAL talking to Pratt & Whitney to jointly develop aircraft engine
K. Raghu

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First Published: Sun, Jun 15 2008. 10 27 PM IST

Updated: Sun, Jun 15 2008. 10 27 PM IST
Bangalore: National Aerospace Laboratories (NAL) is in talks with Pratt and Whitney of Canada to co-develop an India-specific engine for a 90-seat plane being designed in the country that could compete with planes of French-Italian aircraft maker Avions de Transport Régional (ATR).
NAL, the aerospace research lab of the Council of Scientific and Industrial Research (CSIR), wants a fuel-efficient turboprop engine from Pratt and Whitney, owned by US conglomerate United Technologies Corp, to power the aircraft designed to fly on short-haul routes. The 14-seat Saras plane under development by NAL is powered by Pratt and Whitney engines.
“The technical discussions are on. They already have (similar type of) engines flying in other planes,” said Kota Harinarayana, the Raja Ramanna fellow at NAL, who is spearheading the project. A turboprop is a gas turbine engine used to drive a propeller.
Pratt and Whitney engines power the turboprop family of 50-74 seater planes of ATR, the equal joint venture between Alenia Aeronautica and European Aeronautic Defence and Space Co. A Pratt and Whitney spokesman in Canada did not respond to emails and calls for comment.
India’s aerospace industry has designed and built civilian planes such as Hansa and Saras and military planes such as an intermediate jet trainer and Tejas, a light combat aircraft, but these are powered by engines made by foreign firms such as Pratt and Whitney and General Electric Co., or GE.
It has had limited success in developing engines, a segment dominated by a handful of players such as GE, Safran Group of France, Pratt and Whitney, Rolls Royce Plc., Honeywell Inc. and NPO Saturn of Russia. The PTAE-7 small engine for Lakshya, the pilotless target aircraft built by military plane makerHindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) is the only success of India in aero-engine development. After two decades of working on the Kaveri engine for the Tejas fighter, the Gas Turbine and Research Establishment, a unit of the defence research agency, is looking for foreign partners to build the power plant.
“Engine technology is the most complex in aeronautics. We are years behind in it,” said an HAL official, who has worked in the engine division of the firm but did not want to be named as he was not authorized to speak to the media.
NAL wants to sign an engine partner right from the start of the programme to ensure long-term committment and maintain costs, said Harinarayana. NAL will build a digital concept plane of the regional transport aircraft, or RTA 70, in around two years, followed by a flying prototype in four years.

 

[AMCA]

CSIR labs; yes and no. Some labs have done great work and some nothing too much, at different times under different Directors and more so under different DGs. I can tell you more about those exalted personalities; but that will be again off-topic. But do go and research how many pure aero-engine specialists are there in NAL; esp any with previous hands-on design experience with any manufacturer. That may be interesting.

If thats the case, one wonders why a Propulsion Division is set up at NAL and what the Scientists and Engineers are tasked to..

You must interact with some of their engineers and Scientists and I am sure you will fall in love with this institution, especially if you are found interested in their respective subjects.

 

[Indischer]

Mahindra already owns a foreign Airplane company which produces 10 seater planes. But not sure if they produce engines.
I think its time DRDO and ISRO tap foreign talents like NASA, Boing, Lokheed Martin. We should conduct campus interviews in IIT, German and US universities.

No. Gippsland Aeronautics, an Australian firm bought by Mahindra, does not produce engines. The engines are procured from Lycoming,USA.

The likes of ISRO and GTRE already have many IIT alumni and researchers from other prestigious institutes amongst them. Simply bringing scientists over won't help. Research projects must be funded very well, and a robust manufacturing and metallurgical base must be laid down(with intensive research in these fields too) if any steady successes in aero-engine design are to be expected.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

If thats the case, one wonders why a Propulsion Division is set up at NAL and what the Scientists and Engineers are tasked to..

You must interact with some of their engineers and Scientists and I am sure you will fall in love with this institution, especially if you are found interested in their respective subjects.

NAL is a great instution, a veritable treasury of great theoretical knowledge. Which is not a synonym for a design bureau or a leading edge design center. I also see that Kota Harinarayana is there now.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

Tell me how you are going to afford foreigners when you are not in a position to afford your own people? besides, govt already pulls in a pool of experts from friendly nations for complex projects but to absorb the technology faster and to have a permanent place in history we need indigenous people from institutions like IIT and NIT.

Thats why I am telling to make ISRO and DRDO independent. Operate it like a private company. The chairman takes call on salaries, not the govt. Its worth a try. And quite honestly people getting directly recruited from IIT and NIT through campus is damn low or negligible some years. I know it pretty well.

 

[sancho]

Another proof why Indian developments and defence procurements are delayed and inefficient!

IAF wants 56 RTA class aircrafts with a licence production in India and instead of combining this requirement with the development of RTA, by simply using the same engine for example, we see things way to complicated again and prefer the difficult route.
Anything what NAL/HAL aim on with RTA, can be gathered by the Avro replacement and the MRTA co-development too. It would be far better and efficient, if NAL would base the RTA either on the MRTA, or as a smaller varient of it, instead of developing a complete different aircraft in an unrelated development, with no commonality. The whole focus on "indigenous" is making us weaker and not stronger, since we waste money and resources in the wrong areas.
Btw, with the Avro replacement and MRTA, just like BSF, ICG and IN currently ordering new aircrafts in similar classes as RTA, it's only a dream of NAL to field a military varient. When there is no customer that needs it, there will be no fundings to develop such a version. That happens when the industry is looking on their own aims only and not jointly evaluate the requirements of the forces and develop things according to them. HALs HTT40, IMRH or AJT are other examples of dreams, that will never be reality.

 

[jarves]

cant we use kaveri engine for this purpose i mean though it is a jet engine it was tested to fly il 76 aircraft ... if it can fly il 76 then it should have no prob flying rta with some modifications.....

could anyone clarify this doubt ??? i am a novice in technical subjects.....

Redirect Notice

I am also not an expert but i am telling you what i read in wikipedia......
Kaveri is a low bypass ratio engine,these type of engines are used in fighter planes.....
High bypass ratio engines are used in civilian planes and they are more efficient also......
So modified Kaveri can be used in military version of RTA....