HAL has retained its 38th ranking among the top 100 global aerospace companies.

[LaBong]

Hindustan Aeronautics Limited

I checked the site and it only mentions Dhruva as HAL designed aircraft, which is a moderate success.

LCA was an ADA R&D product, not of HAL.

 

[LaBong]

HAL website says, R&D began in 1951.

Yes, but except Marut I don't remember any other product for which HAL needed to do R&D. Marut was once again moderate success.

 

[LaBong]

Oh dear, a Company with no R&D will not Survive, and Its Not a recent Update, they have been Into this Ever since there creation....

There are other govt organizations which do the R&D for HAL, i.e ADA, DRDO.

 

[Markus]

Yes, but except Marut I don't remember any other product for which HAL needed to do R&D. Marut was once again moderate success.

Thats the point. Why was the Marut experience not carried forward ?

 

[LaBong]

Thats the point. Why was the Marut experience not carried forward ?

Many reasons, but most importantly Hal is not to be blamed for that.

 

[IndianArmy]

I checked the site and it only mentions Dhruva as HAL designed aircraft, which is a moderate success.

LCA was an ADA R&D product, not of HAL.

Dhruv,LCH are some of its designed Products.... But again Hey Its R&D.. And HAL plays a Key role in LCA Design Evaluations along with ADA.... And Software development Is Undertaken By HAL for LCA.... Although I previously stated HAL is Not Known for its R&D but its Manufacturing capabilities.... Well We have ADA and DRDO to do the Jobs, But that dosent stop HAL from doing Future R&D's...

 

[IndianArmy]

There are other govt organizations which do the R&D for HAL, i.e ADA, DRDO.

They are Research Establishments , They would Not Only entertain HAL but any Aerospace Industry Established In India, But again, HAL does Make an offer to the govt to go ahead with its Intended Project, It is either Allowed to Research separately or with the help of ADA....

LCA is Getting R&D'd By ADA not Because HAL dosent, But HAL lacks facilities and ADA has been Set up exclusively for the Cause Of Researching LCA

 

[Markus]

Many reasons, but most importantly Hal is not to be blamed for that.

Well thats your opinion, but I would like to diasgree on it.

If you want to be the best, you need to be proactive, undertake R&D, push the government for new funds, undertake marketing initiatives and create world class products.

It's for HAL to decide as to what they want to become (and not only just the GoI or the military) - Just an aerospace assembler and a manufacturer of licensed products OR a developer of world class truly indigenous products.

Its not always feasible to go after an established market, HAL can also create a market of its own, difficult but not impossible.

 

[Joe Shearer]

2.34 billion USD is too less for a premier aerospace company which belongs to country having the 4th biggest air force in the world.

HAL must expand its assembly lines and increase the local production of the MKI's, more assembly lines should also be added for MMRCA and PAk-FA.

The question at HAL always has been - what does one do with the surplus capacity and the surplus manpower after the production run is over? Remember that aircraft manufacture is NOT a continuous production line, not an assembly line, it is built one aircraft at a time. So there is a lot of duplication of equipment between work-stations, and there is not much to be gained by increasing production; that would mean adding more work-stations.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Who said HAL does not do R&D??? HAL is Funded By the Govt, HAL like any other private firm runs on its export turnover, and In addition to it the govt funds....

I am sorry, this is incorrect. The HAL pricing model is exclusively cost-plus and very, very largely with the IAF.

 

[Joe Shearer]

HAL's R&D capabilities and its centers:-

Hindustan Aeronautics Limited

Check it out.

Vastly interesting and vastly promotional.

Having worked in a joint-sector subsidiary of HAL, I happen to have seen some of these goings-on first hand.

 

[Joe Shearer]

There is no aerospace copany which has ONLY R&D as a full time job, if it was, you would be called a research institute and not an aerospace company.



This is why we have to focus more on R&D and rely less on others, even if it is Russia. If technology was a problem in 60s and 70s, whats the problem today, we have the money and brains to undertake research today, should be done at any cost.

Perfectly correct. And perfectly off target.

There are specific organisations tasked to do R&D. Do you want everyone to do R&D and nobody to concentrate on metal-bashing?

All that some have said in mild rebuttal of the knee-jerk reaction that HAL should have done more R&D is that it was never supposed to, whatever its website says. Why blame a zebra for not behaving like a horse?

Why don't some of the R&D musclemen take a look at ADA, ADE, NAL, and HAL, just to cut a long list short, and read up who did what?
Or consider the role of AVRDE Avadi? Or what the other two Ministry of Defence Production units, I hope correspondents can at least name them, do for R&D?

Nobody is blaming HAL alone, the MoD is equally responsible but the change has to to be brought about by the HAL management first, they shld take the initiative.

You must be joking. The HAL Chairman's tour programme was approved in advance, before tickets could be purchased, by the Jt Secretary in charge.

Nobody is saying they have not done their job but what else they could do to rise above others and create a name for themselves. The experience gained during Marut should have taken forward,

What experience gained during Marut, pray? Does anyone know what that was? Any detailed guesses, instead of motherhood and apple pie? This is the most irritating remark repeated throughout this series.

Its a good company, its time to make it the BEST.

Aapke muh me ghee sakkar.

But how do you propose this should be done?

 

[LaBong]

Dhruv,LCH are some of its designed Products.... But again Hey Its R&D.. And HAL plays a Key role in LCA Design Evaluations along with ADA.... And Software development Is Undertaken By HAL for LCA.... Although I previously stated HAL is Not Known for its R&D but its Manufacturing capabilities.... Well We have ADA and DRDO to do the Jobs, But that dosent stop HAL from doing Future R&D's...

I don't know if HAL played key role to design development, but they seem to follow the same model as followed by private organizations. In a particular project some do dev, somedo testing, some integrate and a whole bunch of managers talks with each other. There should be dedicated labs for R&Ds. Centralization of all unrelated project work isn't a good model to follow.

HAL off-course has it's own share of failures, but blaming HAL alone for R&D is wrong. GTRE, ADA should take the responsibility. But then again, it's not a joke to leap from 2nd gen to 4.5 gen or to develop jet engine from scratch.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Dhruv,LCH are some of its designed Products.... But again Hey Its R&D..

Dhruv is perhaps the only successful absorption of technology project; the relationship between Eurocopter and HAL was different, one of its kind, not like others. Saying that HAL designed Dhruv on its own is gross exaggeration.

The LCH is an offshoot, a good re-design, but nothing basic changed.

And HAL plays a Key role in LCA Design Evaluations along with ADA.... And Software development Is Undertaken By HAL for LCA....

Really? Which software?

Although I previously stated HAL is Not Known for its R&D but its Manufacturing capabilities.... Well We have ADA and DRDO to do the Jobs, But that dosent stop HAL from doing Future R&D's...

Very true.

By the same analogy, the Army can design its own instant chapatis instead of leaving it to the Mysore institute to do it. Why doesn't it?

We need to focus somewhere, someplace, and not do everything all together at a careless, sloppy level.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Yes, but except Marut I don't remember any other product for which HAL needed to do R&D. Marut was once again moderate success.

A small correction: it was a terrific success, considering its design and its generational context, but they couldn't get an engine for it. Read more about it in considering how Kurt Tank built the FW190 around an engine. Without that ferociously powerful engine, the FW190 would have been another paper tiger.