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HAL has retained its 38th ranking among the top 100 global aerospace companies.

Joe, I'm going to have nightmares tonight! :D

I do wish things are not that bleak! Himalaya plays a crucial factor in any war between India and China, and it's the expansionist who will have to keep the supply line intact in case of a war.
 
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Joe, I'm going to have nightmares tonight! :D

I do wish things are not that bleak! Himalaya plays a crucial factor in any war between India and China, and it's the expansionist who will have to keep the supply line intact in case of a war.

The Himalayas?

Hmmm. A thought, that.

You need to read up on the Great Tibetan Empire of the 9th century. You also need to take a trip up to Alipur Duars, in Jalpaiguri district, and ask the locals how the town of Raja-bhat-khawa got its name.

Happy night riding.
 
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Chinese will learn to speak the lingua franca eventually. We are very language proud race, we don't even teach our kids Hindi(Even tried removing English as well from school curriculum).

Abir,
A few misguided souls and states walked that path and the consequences are clearly visible. And the architects of such policies are soon going to be history. While states in Western India (for example) had no such compunctions and zoomed ahead.
 
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It will be hard to see how China can accept India as an equal in Asia (Chinese arrogance I suppose) but neither is India a historical subordinate state in the east asian traditional power structure.

Well this is tricky.

Shades of the Age of the 'Middle Kingdom'?
 
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Abir,
A few misguided souls and states walked that path and the consequences are clearly visible. And the architects of such policies are soon going to be history. While states in Western India (for example) had no such compunctions and zoomed ahead.

Yes present day Bengal is the consequence of misguided policy in 80s. Western Indian along with South India zoomed ahead we have to work double harder to be at par with them. Although, in recently the times they are a-changin', slowly.
 
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Yes present day Bengal is the consequence of misguided policy in 80s. Western Indian along with South India zoomed ahead we have to work double harder to be at par with them. Although, in recently the times they are a-changin', slowly.

Hopefully, yes.
But from 1969 to (about) now is a long time. Hope for the best.

Must add:
The visible alternatives- is it so much better. You can tell.
 
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Hopefully, yes.
But from 1969 to (about) now is a long time. Hope for the best.

Popeye, you must also consider that Bengal and Punjab suffered the worst consequences of partition and then somekinda alienated by Central Govt who was more busy to centralize the nascent democracy. While it took Punjab a bloody insurgency and green revolution to get their due presence in India, Bengal opt to choose Communism(and an unrealistic version of revolution now famed as Naxalism), as land reform was the only way ahead to people who had to start their life from void. Yes the industry died, Calcutta lost her importance to Bombay, NCR and more recently B'lore; but still the people survived.

If only we could get rid of the partisans now, but as I said, time is changing, I'm living in my home city and still making the ends meet.
 
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Popeye, you must also consider that Bengal and Punjab suffered the worst consequences of partition and then somekinda alienated by Central Govt who was more busy to centralize the nascent democracy. While it took Punjab a bloody insurgency and green revolution to get their due presence in India, Bengal opt to choose Communism, as land reform was the only way ahead to people who had to start their life from void. Yes the industry died, Calcutta lost her importance to Bombay, NCR and more recently B'lore; but still the people survived.
If only we could get rid of the partisans now, but as I said, time is changing, I'm living in my home city and still making the ends meet.

Abir, will not say too much except to remind you of a writer of the 70s, Ranajit Roy who wrote "The Agony of West Bengal" and Bengalis quoted chapter and verse from it for a long time to explain (away) their miseries.
Forget it, throw away the dinosaurs (comissars), look beyond a (neurotic) lady if possible- there may be some light there.
Since this thread is about HAL, i will cease and desist.
:cheers:
 
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Abir,
A few misguided souls and states walked that path and the consequences are clearly visible. And the architects of such policies are soon going to be history. While states in Western India (for example) had no such compunctions and zoomed ahead.

I am sorry to have to correct a person who has proved his credentials as an extremely well-provided analyst of matters military, but this account of Bengal from the sixties onwards is dreadfully off track, apart from being off-topic.

Nobody in India, not a single state, walked the CPC path. Three states, at different points of time, have elected democratically elected governments under the constitution of India, and have conducted government and administration strictly under the rules of business. This is not a catch-phrase, but the technical term applied to the remit of the local state government under the constitution.

The results are mixed.

On the one hand, these states are among those, not unique but among a larger number of states, which maintained communal harmony. This also warrants a look at the standards and levels of conduct of some of the 'Western India' states, which have turned out to be tales of horror, truly of horror. This is not a forum in which to vent my personal feelings of anguish that the criminals concerned should have received as little punishment as the criminals of 1984. But the thought will not go away - is it that we want development at any cost?

Are these compunctions that we can dismiss with an airy wave of the hand?

I sincerely hope not. If it is so, then there is no difference between our republic and the murderous ones to our west and north.

It will attract charges of prejudice and racial bias if this examination were to exclude mistakes made by others in the presentations. @Abir, there is a huge, yawning ideological gap between the CPI(M), who are midway in their ideology but not their practice between Soviet Russia, which does not exist, and Maoist China: by a curious coincidence, that does not exist either, leaving the CPI(M) swinging gracefully on nothing but a trapeze held up on both sides by little other than faith.

The Naxalites are unreconstructed Indian Maoists, whose elementary stand is that India is a semi-feudal, semi-capitalist country, and who base their politics on this formulation. This is true ever since their days as an extreme left wing faction of the CPI(M), a faction subsequently expelled for their deviant views.

To ascribe the woes of West Bengal, or Tripura or Kerala for that matter, to Naxalism conflated with the CPI(M) is very sloppy categorisation. The maximum number of people killed in either is by the other side.

@Capt. Popeye

Ranajit Roy was a nice, but eccentric ICS man, whom we knew very well. He stayed with us in Jalpaiguri, and was busy showing me, an enthralled eight-year, all about bows and arrows. He had a superb modern re-entrant bow.

I would not put too much stock in the book you mention, if it is the same Ranajit Roy.

I could go on for another week without repeating myself, but beg to draw both your attentions to the steady drift in the content of the thread. We can discuss Bengal politics later.

Regards,
 
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I am sorry to have to correct a person who has proved his credentials as an extremely well-provided analyst of matters military, but this account of Bengal from the sixties onwards is dreadfully off track, apart from being off-topic./QUOTE]

All of us seem to have a long way from HAL and its achievements, which is why i intended to cease and desist.
(Pls refer to my last post).
Notwithstanding any impression that i may (even unwittingly) have conveyed through my posts, i am no analyst of anything; military, political or otherwise.
My initial response to Abir was to the information that he shared on the language policy in some states which i consider/ed to be retrograde.
It was no comment on a political idealogy.
i carry little enthusiasm for political idealogies one way or another. Though i recognise them as being a part of national life.
On the one hand, these states are among those, not unique but among a larger number of states, which maintained communal harmony. This also warrants a look at the standards and levels of conduct of some of the 'Western India' states, which have turned out to be tales of horror, truly of horror. This is not a forum in which to vent my personal feelings of anguish that the criminals concerned should have received as little punishment as the criminals of 1984. But the thought will not go away - is it that we want development at any cost? [/QUOTE]

You seem to have misunderstood my geography (may be that is my fault). i had the west in mind not the north-west. But be that as it may, i only had "economic growth" in my sights. As for other parameters of growth, there are deficiencies still extant. And did i give the impression of believing in "progress at any cost" ? i believe in anything that is inclusive, not exclusive.

[/QUOTE]Are these compunctions that we can dismiss with an airy wave of the hand?[/QUOTE]

i have neither the position nor desire to do so.

[/QUOTE]I sincerely hope not. If it is so, then there is no difference between our republic and the murderous ones to our west and north.[/QUOTE]

Indeed.

[/QUOTE]It will attract charges of prejudice and racial bias if this examination were to exclude mistakes made by others in the presentations. @Abir, there is a huge, yawning ideological gap between the CPI(M), who are midway in their ideology but not their practice between Soviet Russia, which does not exist, and Maoist China: by a curious coincidence, that does not exist either, leaving the CPI(M) swinging gracefully on nothing but a trapeze held up on both sides by little other than faith.[/QUOTE]

They are still not absolved from their primary role (of meaningful governance). History will judge their role as governors, regardless of the merits/demerits of their idealogy. They cannot escape from that, just as the governed cannot escape the consequences of that governance.

[/QUOTE]The Naxalites are unreconstructed Indian Maoists, whose elementary stand is that India is a semi-feudal, semi-capitalist country, and who base their politics on this formulation. This is true ever since their days as an extreme left wing faction of the CPI(M), a faction subsequently expelled for their deviant views.

To ascribe the woes of West Bengal, or Tripura or Kerala for that matter, to Naxalism conflated with the CPI(M) is very sloppy categorisation. The maximum number of people killed in either is by the other side.[/QUOTE]

[/QUOTE]@Capt. Popeye

Ranajit Roy was a nice, but eccentric ICS man, whom we knew very well. He stayed with us in Jalpaiguri, and was busy showing me, an enthralled eight-year, all about bows and arrows. He had a superb modern re-entrant bow.

I would not put too much stock in the book you mention, if it is the same Ranajit Roy.

I could go on for another week without repeating myself, but beg to draw both your attentions to the steady drift in the content of the thread. We can discuss Bengal politics later.

Regards,[/QUOTE]

Since i've neither had the privilege of meeting or knowing Ranajit Roy, i cannot comment. But i definitely would not assess him as unwise in any way. i would only seek to determine whether his views make sense to me or not.
In context, i referred to his book since it was quite fashionable for some people to quote it esp. in the 70s/80s as a defence (or alibi?) for the problems of WB. While his book may be largely forgotten, his views are still being debated on at least one blog.

Finally in conclusion, we seem to have flown far (on a HAL-built plane?) from the original topic.
 
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On the one hand, these states are among those, not unique but among a larger number of states, which maintained communal harmony. This also warrants a look at the standards and levels of conduct of some of the 'Western India' states, which have turned out to be tales of horror, truly of horror. This is not a forum in which to vent my personal feelings of anguish that the criminals concerned should have received as little punishment as the criminals of 1984. But the thought will not go away - is it that we want development at any cost?

You seem to have misunderstood my geography (may be that is my fault). i had the west in mind not the north-west. But be that as it may, i only had "economic growth" in my sights. As for other parameters of growth, there are deficiencies still extant. And did i give the impression of believing in "progress at any cost" ? i believe in anything that is inclusive, not exclusive.

[/QUOTE]Are these compunctions that we can dismiss with an airy wave of the hand?[/QUOTE]

i have neither the position nor desire to do so.

[/QUOTE]I sincerely hope not. If it is so, then there is no difference between our republic and the murderous ones to our west and north.[/QUOTE]

Indeed.

[/QUOTE]It will attract charges of prejudice and racial bias if this examination were to exclude mistakes made by others in the presentations. @Abir, there is a huge, yawning ideological gap between the CPI(M), who are midway in their ideology but not their practice between Soviet Russia, which does not exist, and Maoist China: by a curious coincidence, that does not exist either, leaving the CPI(M) swinging gracefully on nothing but a trapeze held up on both sides by little other than faith.[/QUOTE]

They are still not absolved from their primary role (of meaningful governance). History will judge their role as governors, regardless of the merits/demerits of their idealogy. They cannot escape from that, just as the governed cannot escape the consequences of that governance.

[/QUOTE]The Naxalites are unreconstructed Indian Maoists, whose elementary stand is that India is a semi-feudal, semi-capitalist country, and who base their politics on this formulation. This is true ever since their days as an extreme left wing faction of the CPI(M), a faction subsequently expelled for their deviant views.

To ascribe the woes of West Bengal, or Tripura or Kerala for that matter, to Naxalism conflated with the CPI(M) is very sloppy categorisation. The maximum number of people killed in either is by the other side.[/QUOTE]

[/QUOTE]@Capt. Popeye

Ranajit Roy was a nice, but eccentric ICS man, whom we knew very well. He stayed with us in Jalpaiguri, and was busy showing me, an enthralled eight-year, all about bows and arrows. He had a superb modern re-entrant bow.

I would not put too much stock in the book you mention, if it is the same Ranajit Roy.

I could go on for another week without repeating myself, but beg to draw both your attentions to the steady drift in the content of the thread. We can discuss Bengal politics later.

Regards,[/QUOTE]

Since i've neither had the privilege of meeting or knowing Ranajit Roy, i cannot comment. But i definitely would not assess him as unwise in any way. i would only seek to determine whether his views make sense to me or not.
In context, i referred to his book since it was quite fashionable for some people to quote it esp. in the 70s/80s as a defence (or alibi?) for the problems of WB. While his book may be largely forgotten, his views are still being debated on at least one blog.

Finally in conclusion, we seem to have flown far (on a HAL-built plane?) from the original topic.[/QUOTE]


I think the best thing to do is to agree to disagree, without further detailed discussion, and talk about the iniquities of the public sector. ;-)
 
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