Hajj stampede beyond human control, 'destiny is inevitable', says top Saudi cleric

[Madali]

Hajj stampede beyond human control, 'destiny is inevitable', says top Saudi cleric - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)


This is what annoys me most about us from the Middle East, or Muslims in general. We quickly claim it was God's will, and don't shoulder the responsibility.

"You are not responsible for what happened," Sheikh Abdul Aziz al-Sheikh told Crown Prince Mohammed bin Nayef in a meeting in Mina, the official Saudi Press Agency (SPA) reported.

"As for the things that humans cannot control, you are not blamed for them. Fate and destiny are inevitable," the sheikh told the prince, who is also minister of interior.

Notice hardly any self-criticism. It is either God's will or it is because of the victims. Furthur in the article, you can read this,

Abdullah al-Sheikh, chairman of the Shura Council, an appointed body which advises the government, stressed that pilgrims must stick to "the rules and regulations taken by the security personnel".
"In doing so they protect their lives, their security and facilitate their performing of the rituals," he said.

THIS IS NOT DIRECTLY ONLY AT THE SAUDI GOVERNMENT. My attack is on ANY Muslim or Middle East or Asian mentality that shrugs off responsibility by claiming it is God's will. It is lazy, idiotic, and irresponsible. In countries like Germany or Japan, they don't look at an accident and respond like this. They take full responsibility and take action.

 

[asad71]

The Saudis must call for an OIC summit to discuss making Hajj an OIC affair where all Muslim nations deploy personnel and eqpt during Hajj.

 

[Peaceful Civilian]

Ok Allah is responsible for this then for what 100,000 soldier assigned task to protect pilgrims??

 

[KTOOOOM]

everything is at god will. not you or anyone can change that.
if you don't like what you see don't come here and do your hajj in Karblaa. and early report confirm an Iranian pilgrimage company is behind the cause of the stampede. let us wait and see the result of the investigation if it is true we will take measures regarding the Iranian visitor.

The Saudis must call for an OIC summit to discuss making Hajj an OIC affair where all Muslim nations deploy personnel and eqpt during Hajj.

not your call and it is not your business

 

[Blue Marlin]

so who is to blame for this tragedy? god ! and why would god do that. i blame solely the saudi Arabian people as a whole and including the so called government. when some on goes on hajj you should feel as if you can be connected with god, not trying to running away from a stampede or running away from a falling crane. saudi arabia has huge cash reserves. i am certain that they can deploy more people to aid and control whats happening there. and also why did it happen again. it happened in the past, are they not learning lessons from the past? i support iran's stance of accusing saudi arabia and i agree with them. i find it pathetic of them to blame god. point the finger at god he wont do anything. god is waiting for their asses to be 6 foot under, then god will deal with them then blame him.

my parents were at mina 45 mins before the stampede

i know what i said may be offensive to others, but i say it how i see it.

 

[KTOOOOM]

so who is to blame for this tragedy? god ! and why would god do that. i blame solely the saudi Arabian people as a whole and including the so called government. when some on goes on hajj you should feel as if you can be connected with god, not trying to running away from a stampede or running away from a falling crane. saudi arabia has huge cash reserves. i am certain that they can deploy more people to aid and control whats happening there. and also why did it happen again. it happened in the past, are they not learning lessons from the past? i support iran's stance of accusing saudi arabia and i agree with them. i find it pathetic of them to blame god. point the finger at god he wont do anything. god is waiting for their asses to be 6 foot under, then god will deal with them then blame him.

my parents were at mina 45 mins before the stampede

i know what i said may be offensive to others, but i say it how i see it.

like we give a shit what you believe.the last stampede was 20 years ago and was caused by Iranians.

 

[vsdoc]

The Saudis must call for an OIC summit to discuss making Hajj an OIC affair where all Muslim nations deploy personnel and eqpt during Hajj.

I do not understand how that works.

Nor am I getting into the whole vexed "Islam does not only belong to the Arabs" debate here.

What the Haj means to a Muslim, regardless of where in the world he comes from, is one thing.

But the fact of the matter is that the holy sites are within the borders of a sovereign nation.

Theoretically, tomorrow were they to refuse entry to Muslims from a particular nation, or stop the Haj for non-Saudis altogether, short of all out war there is nothing anyone could do about it.

Hope this does not ruffle feathers unnecessarily, where no ruffling was intended.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Madali]

I do not understand how that works.

Nor am I getting into the whole vexed "Islam does not only belong to the Arabs" debate here.

What the Haj means to a Muslim, regardless of where in the world he comes from, is one thing.

But the fact of the matter is that the holy sites are within the borders of a sovereign nation.

Theoretically, tomorrow were they to refuse entry to Muslims from a particular nation, or stop the Haj for none Saudis altogether, short of all out war there is nothing anyone could do about it.

Hope this does not ruffle feathers unnecessarily, where no ruffling was intended.

Cheers, Doc

That's true. However, it might be ideal, in the far future, to have the two holy cities put under an organization like OIC and treat it like a sect less, neutral, completely spiritual concept. However, to reach that, there needs to be have so many initial steps taken. There needs to be an actual OIC that consists of countries that are all strongly allied together (sort of like EU). Just imagine an organization consisting of different countries that hate each other trying to run Hajj? Disaster.

Also, add to that, most of the Islamic countries have terrible skills when it comes to such things. Can you imagine a bunch of our countries joining together and trying to delegate tasks? It would be insane. And just think when something like this happens, the amount of blame games!

 

[Blue Marlin]

like we give a shit what you believe.the last stampede was 20 years ago and was caused by Iranians.

20- years ago... really

2006 Hajj stampede - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[vsdoc]

That's true. However, it might be ideal, in the far future, to have the two holy cities put under an organization like OIC and treat it like a sect less, neutral, completely spiritual concept. However, to reach that, there needs to be have so many initial steps taken. There needs to be an actual OIC that consists of countries that are all strongly allied together (sort of like EU). Just imagine an organization consisting of different countries that hate each other trying to run Hajj? Disaster.

Also, add to that, most of the Islamic countries have terrible skills when it comes to such things. Can you imagine a bunch of our countries joining together and trying to delegate tasks? It would be insane. And just think when something like this happens, the amount of blame games!

Good points.

But the moot point brother is for any of that to happen, the Saudis have to agree.

In effect it would mean ceding sovereign territory to shared external control and co-administration.

Even if critical security and defense were kept with the Saudis and not abrogated.

 

[KTOOOOM]

20- years ago... really

2006 Hajj stampede - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

i meant not as severe as this.

 

[Hussein]

everything is at god will. not you or anyone can change that.
if you don't like what you see don't come here and do your hajj in Karblaa. and early report confirm an Iranian pilgrimage company is behind the cause of the stampede. let us wait and see the result of the investigation if it is true we will take measures regarding the Iranian visitor.

hajj / mecca is not property of KSA but Islam. all muslims should have right to go there and be secure there. it is responsibility of KSA to take care of security. if they cannot then pay some people from foreign countries to manage it better.
and if you don't think you can make it , give the land to an international organization and stop making money out of it without doing much . money should then go to this international organization.

and your stupid propaganda comment that it is fault of Iranian company... wtf of stupid comment
oh yeah an iranian company is managing security there ? LOL

 

[Blue Marlin]

i meant not as severe as this.

why does this matter? you said no such incident happened in over 20 years i just proved it happened 9 years ago.
from what your saying you were part of the police, is this true?

 

[Saif al-Arab]

hajj is not property of KSA but Islam. all muslims should have right to go there and be secure there. it is responsibility of KSA to take care of security. if they cannot then pay some people from foreign countries to manage it better.
and if you don't think you can make it , give the land to an international organization and stop making money out of it without doing much . money should then go to this international organization.

and your stupid propaganda comment that it is fault of Iranian company... wtf of stupid comment
oh yeah an iranian company is managing security there ? LOL

Makkah and Madinah are ancient Hijazi cities and they have always been that. Locals have been in control of Hajj for 1400 years in a row de facto and hosted pilgrims and been their guardians.

Those cities do not belong to you or any foreigner. It's our land and our citizens live in those cities. You can put such ideas in your """ where they belong.

If you Farsis don't like coming for Hajj you can stop doing that and stick to Karbala and Najaf.

Nobody but KSA is spending billions on Hajj and on accommodating Hajis.

Farsis have been behind deadly riots in Makkah before so this would be nothing new. Time to limit their numbers. There are Muslims enough to take their place (1.7 billion in total).

This way we won't hear about their absurd nonsense accusations of this being "deliberate" and other diarrhea and there won't be deadly riots or more possible stampedes.

There is already international cooperation for Hajj and I would welcome more if necessary but your idea will never happen and is absurd. Like Makkah and Madinah were not home to 5 million locals. Or as if those locals would like to be ruled by all Muslim countries put together. What a joke. How about you give Mashhad and Qom to KSA since we once ruled it for centuries and the people buried in those sites are Hijazis?

 

[KTOOOOM]

hajj is not property of KSA but Islam. all muslims should have right to go there and be secure there. it is responsibility of KSA to take care of security. if they cannot then pay some people from foreign countries to manage it better.
and if you don't think you can make it , give the land to an international organization and stop making money out of it without doing much . money should then go to this international organization.

and your stupid propaganda comment that it is fault of Iranian company... wtf of stupid comment
oh yeah an iranian company is managing security there ? LOL

hajj is for all Muslims to do . but god gave us the right to guard it.not you or any other country can touch that both religiously or logistically. so keep dreaming