Gun Religions of the World - what's yours

[RescueRanger]

@RescueRanger,
I think I'm now a "Non-Gun-Totin" for certain. Of all the life-skills and professional-skills that I acquired over the years, this has turned out to be the least utilised and relevant one.

I totally understand sir, but i must openly admit. Skill at arms saved my life more than once. But for me guns are more then about target practice or self defence. I am a avid hunter and not the trophy kind, so i do enjoy hunting some charkor etc in Pakistan.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

I totally understand sir, but i must openly admit. Skill at arms saved my life more than once. But for me guns are more then about target practice or self defence. I am a avid hunter and not the trophy kind, so i do enjoy hunting some charkor etc in Pakistan.

Please pardon me @RescueRanger,
I did not in any way imply anything critical. Its just that I found that after I'd done my time, that somehow it has become irrelevant. Actually some odd experiences that I've had in North America (notably in USA) that makes me believe in the virtues of Gun Control Laws. There is nothing more dangerous than guns in the hands of odd-balls. I was just speaking with a relative in the UK a few days ago who is a Doctor in the NHS. Earlier he (they) used to be referred to attest to the mental stability of an applicant for a gun license before issuance. Now I gathered that they are referred to after the license issued!

That is progress?!

 

[RescueRanger]

Please pardon me @RescueRanger,
I did not in any way imply anything critical. Its just that I found that after I'd done my time, that somehow it has become irrelevant. Actually some odd experiences that I've had in North America (notably in USA) that makes me believe in the virtues of Gun Control Laws. There is nothing more dangerous than guns in the hands of odd-balls. I was just speaking with a relative in the UK a few days ago who is a Doctor in the NHS. Earlier he (they) used to be referred to attest to the mental stability of an applicant for a gun license before issuance. Now I gathered that they are referred to after the license issued!

That is progress?!

Aggree sir, but the UK has always been a anti gun country. Their police do not use weapons as part of normal policing duties and in the UK, only the rich and well to do keep guns, and even then i believe they are restricted to keeping sporting arms such as shotguns and bolt action rifles for shooting competitions.

We can never hope to compare countries like Pakistan to the UK, since their legal system is robust and have several controls in place. In addition their overall socio economic conditions are such that people have a lot to fall back on:
Free Healthcare
Free Education including Uni
Free Welfare if your out of work
Tax breaks
A working police force
social justice
employment opportunities
robust market and economy

Licencing is a good thing, but does not go far enough i agree, however in a country as large and problematic as Pakistan, a gun can mean the difference between peace of mind and total mental breakdown.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Aggree sir, but the UK has always been a anti gun country. Their police do not use weapons as part of normal policing duties and in the UK, only the rich and well to do keep guns, and even then i believe they are restricted to keeping sporting arms such as shotguns and bolt action rifles for shooting competitions.

We can never hope to compare countries like Pakistan to the UK, since their legal system is robust and have several controls in place. In addition their overall socio economic conditions are such that people have a lot to fall back on:
Free Healthcare
Free Education including Uni
Free Welfare if your out of work
Tax breaks
A working police force
social justice
employment opportunities
robust market and economy

Licencing is a good thing, but does not go far enough i agree, however in a country as large and problematic as Pakistan, a gun can mean the difference between peace of mind and total mental breakdown.

That is what I meant. Even a country like UK which has strict gun-control laws is diluting some procedures. How many beat Bobbies did you see carrying a gun? Just the baton.
Even as a visitor there I did not. Now there is the increasing prospect of that Bobby coming up against an armed opponent.

The USA just defies common sense and logic. That stupid infatuation with the Second Amendment(?) Right to bear arms was relevant in the days of the Wild West. But now? The State should protect the Citizen. But if the Citizen has to fall back upon himself to protect himself then the State has failed or is failing! And that is not funny.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Licencing is a good thing, but does not go far enough i agree, however in a country as large and problematic as Pakistan, a gun can mean the difference between peace of mind and total mental breakdown.

So then; do you think that public ownership of guns (which includes illegal weapons, unfortunately) is part of the solution or part of the problem?

 

[RescueRanger]

So then; do you think that public ownership of guns (which includes illegal weapons, unfortunately) is part of the solution or part of the problem?

No sir, that is actually part of the problem and not the solution. Licencing is a step in the right direction, but when the state cannot Guarantee the safety of the public, Maslow's hierarchy of needs dictates the people will take matters into their own hands.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

No sir, that is actually part of the problem and not the solution. Licencing is a step in the right direction, but when the state cannot Guarantee the safety of the public, Maslow's hierarchy of needs dictates the people will take matters into their own hands.

I believe that the route towards that is stricter Gun-Control systems (rather than just Laws) and more stringent licensing norms to actually discourage gun ownership.

 

[RescueRanger]

I believe that the route towards that is stricter Gun-Control systems (rather than just Laws) and more stringent licensing norms to actually discourage gun ownership.

I second this, but to discourage the gun ownership the state needs to provide the level of protection needed so that civillians can rely on their emergency services. In its current state you will never be able to stop people from owning guns in Pakistan.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

I second this, but to discourage the gun ownership the state needs to provide the level of protection needed so that civillians can rely on their emergency services. In its current state you will never be able to stop people from owning guns in Pakistan.

Sadly that may be the situation in Pakistan and I cannot find any satisfaction in any way in that state of affairs. Actually, the time has come to make some serious efforts to attempt to curb the proliferation of fire-arms. Actually, one could even say it is a little late in the day.

In India, there are periodic nudges to relax laws, or actually the systems. But in my view; that would be dangerous. Of course, via the back-door things are taking place. It needs people to be extra-vigilant aboutthis matter. I know that some people in India (including ex-servicemen) are tracking this through RTI. Their efforts succeeded in unearthing a racket where PB arms that had been confiscated had been allotted to people with political connections and subsequently those licenses had to be rescinded.

 

[MilSpec]

That is what I meant. Even a country like UK which has strict gun-control laws is diluting some procedures. How many beat Bobbies did you see carrying a gun? Just the baton.
Even as a visitor there I did not. Now there is the increasing prospect of that Bobby coming up against an armed opponent.

The USA just defies common sense and logic. That stupid infatuation with the Second Amendment(?) Right to bear arms was relevant in the days of the Wild West. But now? The State should protect the Citizen. But if the Citizen has to fall back upon himself to protect himself then the State has failed or is failing! And that is not funny.

And can a state Fail???

 

[Capt.Popeye]

And can a state Fail???

And- can't states Fail?

If Citizens of a State believe that they need to bear arms as the only way to protect themselves; what does that mean?

 

[MilSpec]

I believe that the route towards that is stricter Gun-Control systems (rather than just Laws) and more stringent licensing norms to actually discourage gun ownership.

oyyyeee.... ki baat kar rahe ho.......In US especially when there are large number of illegal guns are in circulation, rendering someone without a firearm is taking away his ability to protect himself against an armed perp.

Even in India, there have quite few situation where firearms could have saved quite a few live. Back in my town about 10 years ago, the entire place was held hostage to fear of group of bandits who were hitting houses late night, people were helpless with one police chowki and 10 policemen meant for one town and 3 villages. I can remember my dad wanting a firearm at that point of time. I remember him telling me stories of nightmare of naxal and anti naxal groups stories in 70's in w.b. The firearm legislature of india has been inherited from the british colonial system.

 

[Gandalf]

Glocknostic.

 

[MilSpec]

And- can't states Fail?

If Citizens of a State believe that they need to bear arms as the only way to protect themselves; what does that mean?

""An elected legislature can trample a man's rights just as easily as a king can" If it does come down to that, there is an insurance policy for american... sure you will argue that civilians cannot stand up against the huge military.... but they ain't going down without a fight if it does come to that.

Sadly that may be the situation in Pakistan and I cannot find any satisfaction in any way in that state of affairs. Actually, the time has come to make some serious efforts to attempt to curb the proliferation of fire-arms. Actually, one could even say it is a little late in the day.

In India, there are periodic nudges to relax laws, or actually the systems. But in my view; that would be dangerous. Of course, via the back-door things are taking place. It needs people to be extra-vigilant aboutthis matter. I know that some people in India (including ex-servicemen) are tracking this through RTI. Their efforts succeeded in unearthing a racket where PB arms that had been confiscated had been allotted to people with political connections and subsequently those licenses had to be rescinded.

I have always been unsatisfied by the prohibited bore stuff.... I have never understood the logic behind it.

 

[PRINCE_THE_SHOWSTOPPER]

good old INSAS