Gujrat Muslims' massacar supportd by Govt

[Vinod2070]

India has for the first time published detailed figures on the number of people killed in the religious riots in the western state of Gujarat in 2002.

The government told parliament that 790 Muslims and 254 Hindus were killed, 223 more people reported missing and another 2,500 injured.

BBC NEWS | South Asia | Gujarat riot death toll revealed

Do 790 deaths/murders from a Muslim population in Gujarat of 5 million qualify as a genocide?

 

[Flintlock]

Please tell me one such incident after the world war II in UK, Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Scandinavia.

Regards

Why only after WWII? And why confine yourself to Western Europe? Isn't Eastern Europe a part of the continent?

 

[Always Neutral]

BBC NEWS | South Asia | Gujarat riot death toll revealed

Do 790 deaths/murders from a Muslim population in Gujarat of 5 million qualify as a genocide?

Thats the problem you think 790 is a small number ? If it had gone on then it could have been 79,000 like Bosnia.

I have posted the meaning of genocide and by all parameters Gujarat does qualify as a genocide to me. Riots are over food, water etc and donot usually in my books undertake planned targetting of people based on their religion.

Regards

 

[Flintlock]

Thats the problem you think 790 is a small number ? If it had gone on then it could have been 79,000 like Bosnia.

I have posted the meaning of genocide and by all parameters Gujarat does qualify as a genocide to me. Riots are over food, water etc and donot usually in my books undertake planned targetting of people based on their religion.

Regards

Statements like "If this had happened" don't exactly strengthen your case.

Riots are also over religion. They are called communal riots.

 

[Always Neutral]

Statements like "If this had happened" don't exactly strengthen your case.

Riots are also over religion. They are called communal riots.

So are genocides my friend.

Regards

 

[Vinod2070]

Thats the problem you think 790 is a small number ? If it had gone on then it could have been 79,000 like Bosnia.

I have posted the meaning of genocide and by all parameters Gujarat does qualify as a genocide to me. Riots are over food, water etc and donot usually in my books undertake planned targetting of people based on their religion.

Regards

You are right. And it would have been a genocide in that case.

While no one is remotely defending what happened in Gujarat, Genocide does denote a certain scale which was not there in Gujarat.

Would you call the race motivated hate attacks in the UK on "Pakis" as genocide? They are also based on some of the factors outlined here?

 

[Flintlock]

So are genocides my friend.

Regards

Is that reply supposed to prove something?

 

[Always Neutral]

Riots are a form of civil disorders characterized by disorganized groups lashing out in a sudden and intense rash of violence, vandalism or other crime. While individuals may attempt to lead or control a riot, riots are typically chaotic and exhibit herd behavior.

Riots often occur in reaction to a perceived grievance or out of dissent.


VS

Genocide is the deliberate and systematic destruction of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group. While precise definition varies among genocide scholars, a legal definition is found in the 1948 United Nations Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide. Article 2, of this convention defines genocide as "any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: killing members of the group; causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life, calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part

 

[Always Neutral]

You are right. And it would have been a genocide in that case.

While no one is remotely defending what happened in Gujarat, Genocide does denote a certain scale which was not there in Gujarat.

Would you call the race motivated hate attacks in the UK on "Pakis" as genocide? They are also based on some of the factors outlined here?

YES IT WOULD BE GENOCIDE IF

10,000 whites targetted and killed 100 people from one religion in one go (even if they were all whites).

The Police turned a blind eye.

If the politicians in power planned it.

Regards

 

[Vinod2070]

And that is the question to you. Can you accomplish all or some of the goals of genocide from the scale of the Gujarat events?

The attacks took a toll of ~ .01 % of the Muslim population (though many others were effected in other ways). Would that bring about the fruition of the intent that you claim here?

 

[Vinod2070]

YES IT WOULD BE GENOCIDE IF

10,000 whites targetted and killed 100 people from one religion in one go (even if they were all whites).

The Police turned a blind eye.

If the politicians in power planned it.

Regards

I beg to differ.

It would be criminal and abominable beyond doubt but would hardly qualify to be called a genocide.

Lets not tar these criminal and abominable acts with the same brush used for the acts of Hitler/Stalin/Pol Pot/Mongols and such worthies!

You will only reduce the gravity of crimes committed by those devilish creatures who occupy the planet earth but once in a while.

 

[Always Neutral]

And that is the question to you. Can you accomplish all or some of the goals of genocide from the scale of the Gujarat events?

The attacks took a toll of ~ .01 % of the Muslim population (though many others were effected in other ways). Would that bring about the fruition of the intent that you claim here?

How does Gujarat not full fill all the parameters of Genocide

It was well planned.
People were targeted for their religion
The Police looked the other way.
The Politicians in power guided the riotors or told the Police not to interfere.

Regards

 

[Always Neutral]

I beg to differ.


Lets not tar these criminal and abominable acts with the same brush used for the acts of Hitler/Stalin/Pol Pot/Mongols and such worthies!


Why not add Modi's name to the list of theabove distinguished gentleman and we can agree to disagree.

Regards

 

[Vinod2070]

How does Gujarat not full fill all the parameters of Genocide

It was well planned.
People were targeted for their religion
The Police looked the other way.
The Politicians in power guided the riotors or told the Police not to interfere.

Regards

AN, even a common crime like theft or kidnapping can be well planned and target certain people (super rich in this case).

The Police may look the other way because they were bribed and even the politicians may be involved with criminals (Has happened in India more than once).

You are too focussed on the narrow definition here.

Don't miss the woods for the trees, sir. My sincere advice.

 

[Vinod2070]

I beg to differ.


Lets not tar these criminal and abominable acts with the same brush used for the acts of Hitler/Stalin/Pol Pot/Mongols and such worthies!


Why not add Modi's name to the list of theabove distinguished gentleman and we can agree to disagree.

Regards

The sheer scale of the events preclude his inclusion for a start.

Yes, I will agree to disagree with you.