Ground Zero mosque wins approval !!

[jeypore]

muse

US Muslims are Americans and it does not matter how some "feel" towards them, what matters is that the law is applied to all and that no tingling group based on "sentiment" is allowed it's to sideline the law.

First of all you have no idea about how many Mosque exists in Manhatten itself???????? You really should look it up because it will give an interesting figure more then 100.......

Let me Change the discussion then, US citizens based on it's on law has no choice to change the constitution, no matter how much they amendate it!!! I guess the future will tell now, that the law prevails or the sentiments of people!!! I have a feeling, Mr. Muse, the Sentiments will because that has shown the coorelation of American history...

In the end if the US does not have law, how is it different?

I am confused on this statement!!!

I have tried to read it over and over to understand what you have ment, but it boils down to that US has laws, what makes it different to Whom, Meaning other countries?????

Infact, I would say that US has been the most accomadating, interm of laws, to flex itself of Accomadating towards the immigrants and religious diversities, and history has proven itself again and again. But abusing it will only lead to more distruction then the cause itself. You are not winning any significant battle here, but enraging the populace of US even more by not understanding.....

 

[SMC]

A very important point showing the hypocrisy of the Americans. At least those who oppose the building of this mosque/community center.

Some 70% Americans oppose the building of this mosque/community center.

The reason why it's wrong to build the mosque? The sensibilities, the sentiments, the feelings and the emotions of Americans - particularly those who had loved ones killed in 9/11 - would be hurt.

Here's the important part.

A similar reason was given by muslims to Americans (and to westerners in general) for why prophet Mohammad caricatures should not be published and painted. That the sensibilities, the sentiments, the feelings and emotions of Muslims would be hurt.

However, Americans and westerners laughed Muslims off for that and kept talking about their freedom of expression. They said that being hurt, hurting sensibilities is not a good enough reason for why the caricatures should be not be published.

Don't try to give me the simplistic argument of "it's just a cartoon vs 3,000 people being killed". That argument is utterly simplistic.


I am not sure someone else noticed this here -- I am sure someone must have. But the hypocrisy is as clear as day light.

 

[sparklingway]

A cultural center being constructed causing so much debate and having more than 400 posts on defence.pk

This is pure insanity.

 

[jeypore]

See, you can "feel" any way that you want, but public policy cannot be based on such things and when ever it is, it has be disasterous, ask Pakistanis, ask those segments of society that have suffered directly, as a matter of fact, ask which part of society did not suffer? Would you want the same for the US?

We have then a Marxist view, don't we Mr. Muse!!!!!!

Well this is where you are completly wrong, the Public policy greatly holds the views to this country, but the problem is that majority does not get involved in it.

Ask Pakistanis, no matter who they vote for, the military rules, that does not happen In US, and that is why we are discussing the Mosque issue. If the Military had a say in the political outlook, forget about this Mosque being in Manhatten.........

 

[jeypore]

Well said.

As some have admitted now, opposition to the mosque by some Americans is based on 'sentiment and feelings', and there is unfortunately no cure for the sentiments of bigotry and racism that fuel this opposition.

I think the right word you are looking for is Prejudice!!!!!!

Bigotry and Racism!!! Mr. AGNO you really need to Prove it before saying it!!!!!!!!

Thanks.........

 

[jeypore]

Where I have read

'Muslims are to America; what Russians were for Churchill'

Then all power to you!!!!!!!

 

[fallstuff]

Only if you knew !!

 

[muse]

Fantastic stuff -- just look at how things are turning, even that Fox News seems to have realized that the opposers position is untenable.

I hope there will be more, many, many more such controversies with regard to Islam and Muslims and about exactly what does it mean to be "American" -- I am undr no illusions that US Muslims are going to be afforded their civil liberties without having to struggle for them - and this is best -- Whereas a normal, unpublicized, uncontroversial existence is what anybody would have wanted, these controversies enable the US to keep navigating by it's moral compass (with a little help)

The greater the number of such controversies, the more the attitudes and ideas that are imprisoning the US with regard to the hostility some in the US are determined to make public policy, the more substantial the fall and defeat of such attitudes and ideas when confronted by the assertion of constitutional liberties.

Whatever the some sections of the public may "feel" it is not prepared to abandon, is unwilling to betray, it's own highest ideals in pursuit of "feelings".

So, there will be more battles and even this one is not done yet, but these are necessry to CHANGE the CONTENT of Conscience in the US -more and more people will become aware, and more and more people will find it unacceptable, in public and private, to hold and express attitudes which deny Islam and US Muslims as Americans or the notion that the law need not offer and apply to them.

 

[fallstuff]

Fantastic stuff -- just look at how things are turning, even that Fox News seems to have realized that the opposers position is untenable.

I hope there will be more, many, many more such controversies with regard to Islam and Muslims and about exactly what does it mean to be "American" -- I am undr no illusions that US Muslims are going to be afforded their civil liberties without having to struggle for them - and this is best -- Whereas a normal, unpublicized, uncontroversial existence is what anybody would have wanted, these controversies enable the US to keep navigating by it's moral compass (with a little help)

The greater the number of such controversies, the more the attitudes and ideas that are imprisoning the US with regard to the hostility some in the US are determined to make public policy, the more substantial the fall and defeat of such attitudes and ideas when confronted by the assertion of constitutional liberties.

Whatever the some sections of the public may "feel" it is not prepared to abandon, is unwilling to betray, it's own highest ideals in pursuit of "feelings".

So, there will be more battles and even this one is not done yet, but these are necessry to CHANGE the CONTENT of Conscience in the US -more and more people will become aware, and more and more people will find it unacceptable, in public and private, to hold and express attitudes which deny Islam and US Muslims as Americans or the notion that the law need not offer and apply to them.

I would have given some credence to opposition if there were shady people behind the Cordoba Initiative. I am afraid that hasn't been the case. Only case made so far is "Muslims are building the Mosque, 9/11 hijackers were Muslim, so these people are guilty just because of that, can't explain it why though."

Hence my point is circle the wagons and dig in.

 

[Awesome]

I think this thread has run its course and now we're just left talking about the sun and the moon, but the Islamic Cultural Centre.