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Green light to the sale of two Fincantieri Fremm military ships to Egypt

The Italian government is preparing to approve the sale of 6 frigates, twenty naval patrol boats, 24 Eurofighter fighter bombers and 24 M346 trainer planes to Egypt. A "deal of the century" that for Italy does not only have a commercial and industrial value. Among a thousand difficulties, Italy wants to maintain a solid relationship with Egypt ...

https://rep.repubblica.it/pwa/gener...governo_diviso_sulla_maxi_commessa-257970866/
 
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The SC said:
The Italian government is preparing to approve the sale of 6 frigates, twenty naval patrol boats, 24 Eurofighter fighter bombers and 24 M346 trainer planes to Egypt. A "deal of the century" that for Italy does not only have a commercial and industrial value. Among a thousand difficulties, Italy wants to maintain a solid relationship with Egypt ...

https://rep.repubblica.it/pwa/gener...governo_diviso_sulla_maxi_commessa-257970866/
Click to expand...
Damn dude what's stopping Egypt to buy Gripen and J-10s as well?
 
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KediKesenFare said:
Those who are paying the bills...
Click to expand...

lol. In that case, France and Dassault shouldn't have had a problem making the contract for the additional 12 Rafales work, right? Or DNS with the additional FREMMs and Gowinds, yes? Instead, both had problems making the financing of those deals happen and instead, the Germans swept in with much more favorable financing plans for the MEKOs and Italy for the 2 Bergamini FREMMs plus 4 more!! 24 EF Typhoons, 20 stealthy Falaj II offshore patrol vessels and 24 M-346 trainer jets. So why did France have an issue if financing, supposedly, isn't an issue?

All the MiGs and the Su-35S were agreed upon based on financing loans with Russia, including the 50 Ka-52 attack helicopters. So where is this phantom person paying all these bills? And why would they in the first place? What are they getting in return from Egypt? Nothing! This is the most ridiculous assumption ever perpetrated by haters.

ÇölKaplanı said:
Damn dude what's stopping Egypt to buy Gripen and J-10s as well?
Click to expand...

Gripen is the product of the super liberal and the ultra Zionist sympathizing state of Sweden that pretends to only do business with true "democracies". And since we're an overthrown coup dictatorship LOLOL and apparently have Israel scared on its heels that it tries to sabotage every weapons deal we try to make....it ain't gonna happen and neither are we interested in that aircraft with all its US components and doing business with people who dislike us anyway. We're trying to distance ourselves from that type of toxic relationships and only deal with those who genuinely want to work with us, hence the Germans, Italians and Russians. We already buy a lot of Chinese stuff anyway, only we're not interested in their jets not because of any reason except we're already heavily involved with Russia.
 
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Trainers%20-%20SP%20M-346_foto10.jpg


The M-346 is the most advanced jet trainer and has been designed for a wide range of training capabilities, long-term reliability and cost-effective operations. Central element of an Integrated Training System, the M-346 is the most modern solution to train the new generation of pilots. The aircraft is in service with the Air Forces of Italy, Republic of Singapore, Israel and Poland with 72 aircraft already ordered.

Trainers%20-%20SP%20M-346_foto11.jpg


Technologically advanced and safe

The twin-engine, tandem-seat M-346 has four channel Fly-By-Wire Flight Control System, redundant main systems, state-of-the-art avionics with latest human-machine interface with Multi-Function Displays (MFD), Head-Up Displays (HUD), Hands On Throttle And Stick (HOTAS) controls, in-flight safety features like PARS (Pilot Activated Attitude Recovery System). An APU (Auxiliary Power Unit) provides autonomous operations.

ETTS & LVC

The Embedded Tactical Training Simulation (ETTS) allows the M-346 to emulate on-board sensors, weapons, Computer Generated Forces (CGF) as well as allowing pilots to interact in real time with a virtual tactical scenario in a Live (aircraft in flight), Virtual (simulators) and Constructive (ETTS) - LVC environment, further enhancing flexibility and cost reduction.

Effective trainer

The wide flight envelope, high thrust-to-weight ratio and unmatched maneuverability allow the M-346 to offer handling similar to those of next generation combat aircraft, like Eurofighter Typhoon or the F-35. This maximises teaching effectiveness and allows flight hours to be downloaded from far more expensive front line aircraft at Operational Conversion Units.

Trainers%20-%20SP%20M-346_foto9.jpg


https://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/yak/


M-346 weapons

Armaments are carried on nine external store stations, six of which are underwing, equipped with 1,000lb class ejector release units, and two wingtip stations for air-to-air missiles. The under-fuselage station carries avionics pods or a 300l conformal fuel tank.

The system data presentation and control functions of the stores management system use any one of the multifunction displays in both cockpits. Hands-on throttle and stick (HOTAS) controls are used to select the weapons. Weapon aiming is controlled by the central main processor, aiming data being presented to the pilots through the head-up display (HUD) or the helmet-mounted display (HMD).

The weapons carried include: MK82 500lb and MK83 1,000lb free-fall or retarded bombs; rocket launchers; AIM-9 Sidewinder short-range air-to-air missiles; Raytheon AGM-65 Maverick air-to-ground missiles; MBDA (formerly Alenia) Marte MK-2A anti-ship missiles.

The external hard points can also carry the Vinten VICON-601 reconnaissance pod, laser designator pod, radar warning receiver pod and Elettronica ELT-55 electronic countermeasures pod.

For fighter trainer role, self-protection system functions and simulated tactical scenario threats are presented and monitored on the multifunction displays.

For operational roles, the aircraft is fitted with a radar warning receiver, chaff and flares dispensers, and active electronic countermeasures.

Cockpit

The cockpit is representative of the latest-generation combat aircraft, and each crew position is equipped with raster / stroke type head-up display (HUD), full-colour liquid crystal multifunction displays (three in each cockpit), helmet-mounted display with threat simulation capability, night-vision goggle (NVG) compatible instrumentation and hands-on throttle and stick (HOTAS) controls.
The cockpits can be fitted with MK16 ejection seats from Martin Baker of Uxbridge, UK.

Avionics

The avionics architecture is based on a dual-redundant, MIL-STD-1553B digital data bus with the capacity for additional systems. The communication suite includes a VHF / UHF transceiver and an information friend of foe (IFF) transponder. The navigation suite includes a laser gyro inertial navigation system with an embedded GPS receiver, and tactical air navigation (TACAN) and VHF omnidirectional radio ranging (VOR/IIS/MB).

The flight control system (FCS) is a full authority digital fly-by-wire quadruple-redundant system, which includes four BAE Systems Italia flight control computers.

The FCS provides the aircraft with controllability up to angles-ofattack (AoA) of 35° and higher, g-limitation, stall and spin prevention, and maximum AoA limitation.

It can be adapted to various degrees of automation and autopilot modes with reversionary modes featuring automatic selection in case of damage or failures.

Turbofan engines

Povazke Strojarne L.M. was to be the supplier of the two DV-2S twin-shaft turbofan engines for the YAK / AEM-130. For the M-346, these are replaced with two Honeywell / ITEC F124-GA-200 turbofan engines, produced with Fiat Avio.

There is also a closed-circuit, self-contained, aerobatics lubrication system and dual-channel Full Authority Digital Engine Control (FADEC).

Performance

The M-346 can climb at the rate of 127m/s. The maximum and cruise speed of the aircraft are 1,092km/h and 1,059km/h respectively. Its stall speed is 166km/h. The range and service ceiling of the M-346 are 2,590km and 13,700m respectively. Its take-off run is 320m, while the landing run is 470m. The aircraft weighs around 4,610kg and its maximum take-off weight is 9,000kg.


https://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/yak/
 
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The SC said:
Central element of an Integrated Training System, the M-346 is the most modern solution to train the new generation of pilots.
Click to expand...

This is exactly what I had mentioned somewhere, I forget which thread, but it was due to all these modern aircraft coming into the fray with the EAF that despite having over 100 trainers already (between all the L-39Es and K-8Es as well), and while those are great to get eventual flight time for new recruits, they need a trainer for advanced training prior to moving into the legacy fighters and they knew this a few years ago when they were shopping for the Yak trainer. I was a bit surprised they didn't go with that more than this one since they were purchasing a lot more Russian aircraft between the MiGs and Su-35s and who knows what else is down the pipeline, as opposed to 24 (now 23) rafales and 24 Typhoons. But I suppose it will still work out ok. The L-39Es can still be the gateway for the new recruits who end up in the Russian aircraft as long as they keep upgrading their avionics to a certain extent.
 
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Gomig-21 said:
This is exactly what I had mentioned somewhere, I forget which thread, but it was due to all these modern aircraft coming into the fray with the EAF that despite having over 100 trainers already (between all the L-39Es and K-8Es as well), and while those are great to get eventual flight time for new recruits, they need a trainer for advanced training prior to moving into the legacy fighters and they knew this a few years ago when they were shopping for the Yak trainer. I was a bit surprised they didn't go with that more than this one since they were purchasing a lot more Russian aircraft between the MiGs and Su-35s and who knows what else is down the pipeline, as opposed to 24 (now 23) rafales and 24 Typhoons. But I suppose it will still work out ok. The L-39Es can still be the gateway for the new recruits who end up in the Russian aircraft as long as they keep upgrading their avionics to a certain extent.
Click to expand...
Yes absolutely..and don't forget that some alpha jets are old and need replacement too..
The Yak is the same frame design as the M-346..and the Yak is pretty advanced on its own..actually Russia use it to train its pilots of SU-35 and SU-57..But Avionics wise the M-346 is more advanced..and there is that unique: "Embedded Tactical Training Simulation (ETTS) that allows the M-346 to emulate on-board sensors, weapons, Computer Generated Forces (CGF) as well as allowing pilots to interact in real time with a virtual tactical scenario in a Live (aircraft in flight), Virtual (simulators) and Constructive (ETTS) - LVC environment, further enhancing flexibility and cost reduction."
 
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The SC said:
Yes absolutely..and don't forget that some alpha jets are old and need replacement too..
The Yak is the same frame design as the M-346..and the Yak is pretty advanced on its own..actually Russia use it to train its pilots of SU-35 and SU-57..But Avionics wise the M-346 is more advanced..and there is that unique: "Embedded Tactical Training Simulation (ETTS) that allows the M-346 to emulate on-board sensors, weapons, Computer Generated Forces (CGF) as well as allowing pilots to interact in real time with a virtual tactical scenario in a Live (aircraft in flight), Virtual (simulators) and Constructive (ETTS) - LVC environment, further enhancing flexibility and cost reduction."
Click to expand...

What I find strange is how people keep saying "why isn't Egypt buying more Rafales and sticking to one brand instead of buying another type of AC and having a "logistical nightmare" etc. and how can they're not be aware that Egypt has already tried to buy more Rafales but the French & Egyptian parties are having a tough time reaching an amicable, financial agreement on only 12 additional aircraft which is very bizarre when here we have a contract for almost $10 Billion going towards this potential MEGA deal that they couldn't come to terms on an additional 12 Rafales? And not just the Rafales, but the FREMM and the Gowinds as well. So the premise that it's unknown to many of these fellas that an attempt to buy more Rafales was already made is very strange, to say the least considering it's been talked about ad naseum, here and in many military discussion circuits.

On that note, it's also interesting that many don't see the actual similarities between the EFT and the Rafale and in all actuality, the two can act come pretty close to acting as one. The only major difference is the RBE2-A AESA radar in the Rafale is different than what should be coming in the EFT which should be the relatively new CAPTOR-E AESA radar that the Kuwaiti Typhoons are being equipped with. But still, both should have AESA radars and both have HMCS and both use almost essentially the same exact weapons besides the HAMMER guided bombs on the Rafale might not be compatible to the EFT. But other than that, the rest of the A2G and A2A weaponry is all compatible with one another from all the MBDA MICAs to all the GBU Paveways and, especially and hopefully the new Meteor missile when it finally gets approved for export as a whole slew of nations are waiting for this missile to come out with an export variant.

Operators:

Operators and future operators of Meteor missile, as of May 2020.
Operators
Future operators
Current[edit]
Future[edit]

So the idea that there is no commonality and more of a logistical nightmare is actually not true based on all the known information and in reality, I bet you that it wouldn't be much more work or effort to train both, pilots and crew to operate and work on both aircraft and be completely fluent in both, making that theory completely untrue. In reality, Dassault was supposed to be one of the original partners in the EFT consortium, but they bowed out because of design disagreements. There's no details as to what those design difference were, but I bet they had to do with the positioning of the canards or the intakes or both. The intakes on the EFT are on the bottom (like the F-16) and possibly more subject to penetrating and returning radar waves, but the S-ducts more than make up for that.

The intakes on the Rafale are brilliantly designed with the heavy S-shaping as well as serrated or as more commonly known, "saw-toothed" edges on the panel joints to reduce even more of the radar waves trying to enter the intakes.

Rafale_serrated_inlet.JPG


No serrated panel edges in the Typhoon panels inside the intakes, but you can see the S-shaping of the ducting is pretty drastic.

Eurofighter_EFA-2000_Typhoon_DA1_98%2B29_Intake_DMFO_10June2013_%2814563817746%29.jpg


The canards are placed a lot further up front on the EFT than they are on the Rafale, yet you get pretty much the same effect from both positions on the aircraft. So there are A LOT more commonalities than there are differences between the two.

What we might see the EAF do is take the Rafale's avionics and integrate some of the critical functions that work off of link-16 with the EFT's glass cockpit since both AC use the same data link, along with sharing info from the Damocles pod etc. And that said, it could very well potentially mean that there will be 48 Rafale/EFT operating as a single type of AC. It should be fascinating to see this come to fruition.

The only major differences I see are the engines. The Rafales use the SNECMA M88 while the EFT use the EJ200 and both are definitely completely different engines. So if there is anything that will be a bit of a challenge won't necessarily be the introduction to a completely new powerplant, but adding an additional system. But it's nothing that is out of the realm of being absorbed.

The other complication will be the armament for the EFT and especially the A2A missiles since most of its missiles are almost exclusively US AIM missiles including the STORM SHADOW cruise missile. So I think they'll have no choice but to have the MBDA system already set up in them to fire the MICA series including the MICA NG and of course the meteor. It will be interesting to see what they do to rectify that problem as well as the only pod that works with the EFT which is the Israeli LIGHTNING and we all know that's not going to happen. If the aircraft is compatible with the Sniper XR, then there shouldn't be any problems as that pod is in the EAF's inventory and that will be an easy retrofit.

What does Saudi Arabia use for pods on its EFT?
 
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[QUOTE="Gomig-21, post: 12384557, member: 180140"
What does Saudi Arabia use for pods on its EFT?[/QUOTE]
Damocles pods from Thales
 
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The SC said:
Damocles pods from Thales
Click to expand...

In that case, the targetting pod shouldn't be an issue whatsoever since the EAF uses the Damocles with their Rafales and so that should bring the two aircraft even closer to one another.
 
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Gomig-21 said:
What I find strange is how people keep saying "why isn't Egypt buying more Rafales and sticking to one brand instead of buying another type of AC and having a "logistical nightmare" etc. and how can they're not be aware that Egypt has already tried to buy more Rafales but the French & Egyptian parties are having a tough time reaching an amicable, financial agreement on only 12 additional aircraft which is very bizarre when here we have a contract for almost $10 Billion going towards this potential MEGA deal that they couldn't come to terms on an additional 12 Rafales? And not just the Rafales, but the FREMM and the Gowinds as well. So the premise that it's unknown to many of these fellas that an attempt to buy more Rafales was already made is very strange, to say the least considering it's been talked about ad naseum, here and in many military discussion circuits.

On that note, it's also interesting that many don't see the actual similarities between the EFT and the Rafale and in all actuality, the two can act come pretty close to acting as one. The only major difference is the RBE2-A AESA radar in the Rafale is different than what should be coming in the EFT which should be the relatively new CAPTOR-E AESA radar that the Kuwaiti Typhoons are being equipped with. But still, both should have AESA radars and both have HMCS and both use almost essentially the same exact weapons besides the HAMMER guided bombs on the Rafale might not be compatible to the EFT. But other than that, the rest of the A2G and A2A weaponry is all compatible with one another from all the MBDA MICAs to all the GBU Paveways and, especially and hopefully the new Meteor missile when it finally gets approved for export as a whole slew of nations are waiting for this missile to come out with an export variant.

Operators:

Operators and future operators of Meteor missile, as of May 2020.
Operators
Future operators
Current[edit]
Future[edit]

So the idea that there is no commonality and more of a logistical nightmare is actually not true based on all the known information and in reality, I bet you that it wouldn't be much more work or effort to train both, pilots and crew to operate and work on both aircraft and be completely fluent in both, making that theory completely untrue. In reality, Dassault was supposed to be one of the original partners in the EFT consortium, but they bowed out because of design disagreements. There's no details as to what those design difference were, but I bet they had to do with the positioning of the canards or the intakes or both. The intakes on the EFT are on the bottom (like the F-16) and possibly more subject to penetrating and returning radar waves, but the S-ducts more than make up for that.

The intakes on the Rafale are brilliantly designed with the heavy S-shaping as well as serrated or as more commonly known, "saw-toothed" edges on the panel joints to reduce even more of the radar waves trying to enter the intakes.

Rafale_serrated_inlet.JPG


No serrated panel edges in the Typhoon panels inside the intakes, but you can see the S-shaping of the ducting is pretty drastic.

Eurofighter_EFA-2000_Typhoon_DA1_98%2B29_Intake_DMFO_10June2013_%2814563817746%29.jpg


The canards are placed a lot further up front on the EFT than they are on the Rafale, yet you get pretty much the same effect from both positions on the aircraft. So there are A LOT more commonalities than there are differences between the two.

What we might see the EAF do is take the Rafale's avionics and integrate some of the critical functions that work off of link-16 with the EFT's glass cockpit since both AC use the same data link, along with sharing info from the Damocles pod etc. And that said, it could very well potentially mean that there will be 48 Rafale/EFT operating as a single type of AC. It should be fascinating to see this come to fruition.

The only major differences I see are the engines. The Rafales use the SNECMA M88 while the EFT use the EJ200 and both are definitely completely different engines. So if there is anything that will be a bit of a challenge won't necessarily be the introduction to a completely new powerplant, but adding an additional system. But it's nothing that is out of the realm of being absorbed.

The other complication will be the armament for the EFT and especially the A2A missiles since most of its missiles are almost exclusively US AIM missiles including the STORM SHADOW cruise missile. So I think they'll have no choice but to have the MBDA system already set up in them to fire the MICA series including the MICA NG and of course the meteor. It will be interesting to see what they do to rectify that problem as well as the only pod that works with the EFT which is the Israeli LIGHTNING and we all know that's not going to happen. If the aircraft is compatible with the Sniper XR, then there shouldn't be any problems as that pod is in the EAF's inventory and that will be an easy retrofit.

What does Saudi Arabia use for pods on its EFT?
Click to expand...

The Italian press itself talked about a French offer to Egypt to activate the Rafale and maritime vessels additions and banking facilities. Therefore, the Italian government demanded to speed up the contract with Egypt and the complementary deals. It means the issue with France is not that bad, the reason for Egypt’s going to Italy is something that is due to the political administration of Egypt..of taking advantage of all opportunities available..

Some might be thinking that the Egyptian army should calm down the pace of new contracts, because it appears that they stirred some hornets' nests. Not only the Usraelis, but those who are allergic to the modernization of the Egyptian army, and seem to have more sensitivity than the Usrael itself; ..With Buk, Tor, Antey 2500, German Iris T, early warning radars, OTH radars and the mysterious China's deals in air defense. Mig 35, Rafale, Sukhoi 35, Ka 52, Mi 28, AW149, AW189, with a communications satellite. German submarines, Gowind, Fremm, and Meko with manufacturing ToT..with 2 Mistral.. All this and they were holding their nerves as much as they could.. Now with Sisi opening a new Italian deal, 2 Bergamini ready to be delivered with the option of 4 additional, with Typhoons, M346 trainers, missile boats with manufacturing ToT and a SAR satellite, which is something if you know is great and has exclusive technologies only available to very few countries.
Sisi who will not calm down, have some people's blood literally burning. There are many threads on the forum that criticise or try to dismiss these deals which are real achievements on their own, As if there is an organized jealousy assault..
 
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Gomig-21 said:
what should be coming in the EFT which should be the relatively new CAPTOR-E AESA radar that the Kuwaiti Typhoons are being equipped with.
Click to expand...

This was according to Wikipedia's information on the new CAPTOR-E which made a lot of sense since the CAPTOR is the existing radar and they've been working on the AESA version which was dubbed the E and the Kuwaiti EFTs were to be equipped with that radar.

Kuwait became the launch customer for the Captor-E active electronically scanned array radar in April 2016.[114] Germany has announced the intention to integrate the AESA Captor-E into their Typhoons, beginning in 2022.[115]
330px-ILA_Berlin_2012_PD_193-2.JPG

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurofighter_Typhoon

But this is today's news on Twitter. Not sure where this E-SCAN radar came from and if Kuwait chose it over the Captor-E or if there is no more Captor-E?

A Eurofighter flight test campaign dedicated to the configuration chosen by Kuwait, with E-SCAN radar and other important enhancements, is demanding and complex. Mario Mutti, Head of Project Test Pilot Fighters and Standardization of Leonardo's Aircraft Division, explains how it is proceeding (Picture source: Leonardo)

Leonardo_details_Eurofighter_E-SCAN_radar_tests_for_Kuwait.jpg


http://www.airrecognition.com/index...urofighter-e-scan-radar-tests-for-kuwait.html
 
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Gomig-21 said:
This was according to Wikipedia's information on the new CAPTOR-E which made a lot of sense since the CAPTOR is the existing radar and they've been working on the AESA version which was dubbed the E and the Kuwaiti EFTs were to be equipped with that radar.

Kuwait became the launch customer for the Captor-E active electronically scanned array radar in April 2016.[114] Germany has announced the intention to integrate the AESA Captor-E into their Typhoons, beginning in 2022.[115]
330px-ILA_Berlin_2012_PD_193-2.JPG

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurofighter_Typhoon

But this is today's news on Twitter. Not sure where this E-SCAN radar came from and if Kuwait chose it over the Captor-E or if there is no more Captor-E?

A Eurofighter flight test campaign dedicated to the configuration chosen by Kuwait, with E-SCAN radar and other important enhancements, is demanding and complex. Mario Mutti, Head of Project Test Pilot Fighters and Standardization of Leonardo's Aircraft Division, explains how it is proceeding (Picture source: Leonardo)

Leonardo_details_Eurofighter_E-SCAN_radar_tests_for_Kuwait.jpg


http://www.airrecognition.com/index...urofighter-e-scan-radar-tests-for-kuwait.html
Click to expand...

Captor E is an upgrade of the E-scan radar..
https://www.baesystems.com/en/product/e-scan-radar

2014 Captor E-Scan radar
https://www.baesystems.com/en/feature/radar-love
 
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