Greek Cypriots lynch a man with Turkish flag and then burn it

[mehmeTcc]

I am not sure if you are referring to me with this post (because you quoted me), but I didn't say anything about racism.
I'm not talking about racism either, I'm talking about nationalism specifically. I don't see both of them as the same, but I do have the feeling that racism, fascism and ultra-nationalism is an amplified form of nationalism.

My opinion in my previous post about nationalism is based on my experiences with various people around me, people on internet (like a forum such as this), and from myself (I used to have nationalistic feelings as well but I grew out of it).

I have seen many people like you, they talk about how good Kurdish language is but when it comes to Turkish, they start to curse their own mother tongue. Leftist softies I'm talking about.

türkçenin yetersiz bir dil olmas Like this.

By your definition, I'm also a goddamn racist (or should I say faşik) because I love my nationality and don't want to give up using the word Turkish.
Seriously that TKP gang is killing me.

 

[TurAr]

I am not sure if you are referring to me with this post (because you quoted me), but I didn't say anything about racism.
I'm not talking about racism either, I'm talking about nationalism specifically. I don't see both of them as the same, but I do have the feeling that racism, fascism and ultra-nationalism is an amplified form of nationalism.

My opinion in my previous post about nationalism is based on my experiences with various people around me, people on internet (like a forum such as this), and from myself (I used to have nationalistic feelings as well but I grew out of it).

First of all, what is nationalism? How do you describe it?

 

[Axa-]

I have seen many people like you, they talk about how good Kurdish language is but when it comes to Turkish, they start to curse their own mother tongue. Leftist softies I'm talking about.

türkçenin yetersiz bir dil olmas Like this.

By your definition, I'm also a goddamn racist (or should I say faşik) because I love my nationality and don't want to give up using the word Turkish.
Seriously that TKP gang is killing me.

Do not bother, probably not ethnic Turks. Can't imagine an ethnic-Turk disliking his own language/culture, flag.

 

[Inspector Spacetime]

I have seen many people like you, they talk about how good Kurdish language is but when it comes to Turkish, they start to curse their own mother tongue. Leftist softies I'm talking about.

türkçenin yetersiz bir dil olmas Like this.

By your definition, I'm also a goddamn racist (or should I say faşik) because I love my nationality and don't want to give up using the word Turkish.
Seriously that TKP gang is killing me.

Re-read my post, because I don't think you read it correctly.

I'm not talking about racism either, I'm talking about nationalism specifically. I don't see both of them as the same, but I do have the feeling that racism, fascism and ultra-nationalism is an amplified form of nationalism.

I never said and would never say that Turkish is an insufficient language. I wasn't even aware there was such a discussion.
No idea who the TKP gang are.
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First of all, what is nationalism? How do you describe it?

The thought process of 'My country/ethnicity/culture is the best in the world' (dramatization) is what I refer to with nationalism.

The following quote is a prime example of nationalism for me:
"Turk'un Turk'ten baska dostu yoktur."

First of all if this sentence were true, than I would feel really sad and sorry for ourselves, but I know it isn't so I take solace in that fact. Basically this sentence's meaning is; "Only befriend and trust Turks". Which effectively means: "Don't trust any person of another nationality or ethnicity". So in other words, it only promotes fear and paranoia among ourselves, and if a non-Turkish person would read it, he/she would only feel left out and alienated by us.

 

[TurAr]

The thought process of 'My country/ethnicity/culture is the best in the world' (dramatization) is what I refer to with nationalism.

The following quote is a prime example of nationalism for me:
"Turk'un Turk'ten baska dostu yoktur."

First of all if this sentence were true, than I would feel really sad and sorry for ourselves, but I know it isn't so I take solace in that fact. Basically this sentence's meaning is; "Only befriend and trust Turks". Which effectively means: "Don't trust any person of another nationality or ethnicity". So in other words, it only promotes fear and paranoia among ourselves, and if a non-Turkish person would read it, he/she would only feel left out and alienated by us.

Well, there is no consensus on how to define nationalism. You may say it is the thought process of 'My country/ethnicity/culture is the best in the world.' I may say nationalism is simply the love for your country, and the other may say nationalism is to only work for your country's interests. Many people with different world views, and even with different ideologies can name themselves as nationalists. So you cannot just say nationalism causes problems, therefore it is bad. With the same logic, one can say the same thing for religion over those who kill people in the name of it. Would you agree with them too?

As for the "Türk'ün Türk'ten başka dostu yoktur" example, you can see in this thread of mine how i make fun with that: http://www.defence.pk/forums/turkey-defence/207330-turkey-favorable-turkish-people-only.html And i'm one of those who call himself as a nationalist. So in my opinion, your prime example for how to define nationalism, has nothing to do with nationalism.

 

[Safriz]

Greek cypriots must be crying rivers why they seperated from Turkey...
Only to get bankrupt

 

[Inspector Spacetime]

Well, there is no consensus on how to define nationalism. You may say it is the thought process of 'My country/ethnicity/culture is the best in the world.' I may say nationalism is simply the love for your country, and the other may say nationalism is to only work for your country's interests. Many people with different world views, and even with different ideologies can name themselves as nationalists. So you cannot just say nationalism causes problems, therefore it is bad. With the same logic, one can say the same thing for religion over those who kill people in the name of it. Would you agree with them too?

As for the "Türk'ün Türk'ten başka dostu yoktur" example, you can see in this thread of mine how i make fun with that: http://www.defence.pk/forums/turkey-defence/207330-turkey-favorable-turkish-people-only.html And i'm one of those who call himself as a nationalist. So in my opinion, your prime example for how to define nationalism, has nothing to do with nationalism.

I love my country, culture etc. I live in Holland, but I make sure I don't do anything stupid, so others here wont say 'wow, this is how Turks are'. I know I represent my country, religion etc. in my every day life, and I am careful I don't represent it in a bad way.
Even when I write on the internet (on this forum for instance), I make sure I don't fall into provocations and start using insults on others. There are many people reading this forum, and if they see me with insults and see the Turkish flag beside my name, they might think not only negative about me, but also think negative about whom I'm associated with (my country).

After reading this, I guess you would describe me as a nationalist (milliyetci, ulusalci) right? I would argue that I'm not a nationalist. Because in my opinion, you don't need to be a nationalist to love your country.

With nationalism, I can't think of any other word to describe it. I personally will keep referring to this as nationalism, because it seems everyone understands what I mean with it. Unless in the future a better word can be used as a substitute.

However, I must say you make a very valid point.

 

[Axa-]

Well, there is no consensus on how to define nationalism. You may say it is the thought process of 'My country/ethnicity/culture is the best in the world.' I may say nationalism is simply the love for your country, and the other may say nationalism is to only work for your country's interests. Many people with different world views, and even with different ideologies can name themselves as nationalists. So you cannot just say nationalism causes problems, therefore it is bad. With the same logic, one can say the same thing for religion over those who kill people in the name of it. Would you agree with them too?

As for the "Türk'ün Türk'ten başka dostu yoktur" example, you can see in this thread of mine how i make fun with that: http://www.defence.pk/forums/turkey-defence/207330-turkey-favorable-turkish-people-only.html And i'm one of those who call himself as a nationalist. So in my opinion, your prime example for how to define nationalism, has nothing to do with nationalism.

Well, you can make all the fun you want, that statement does have some truth in it.. i mean i do understand the thought behind it. Everyone who has lived abroud would understand that.

I want serious answer, Turkun Turkten baska dostu varsa soyle bizde bilelim.. varsa kimler, hangi milletler, cevabini bekliyorum dogrusu cok merak ettim.

 

[mehmeTcc]

Re-read my post, because I don't think you read it correctly.

I never said and would never say that Turkish is an insufficient language. I wasn't even aware there was such a discussion.
No idea who the TKP gang are.

I see arguments like yours about nationalism before. You didn't said that Turkish is insufficient, you just said let's destroy the term Turk and call ourselves Türkiyeli. Language and customs are the things which makes us Turk.
If you will destroy Turkishness of the society, you will also destroy its language and its traditions. I even saw Leftist scum proposing to change our language to English.

 

[Inspector Spacetime]

I see arguments like yours about nationalism before. You didn't said that Turkish is insufficient, you just said let's destroy the term Turk and call ourselves Türkiyeli. Language and customs are the things which makes us Turk.
If you will destroy Turkishness of the society, you will also destroy its language and its traditions. I even saw Leftist scum proposing to change our language to English.

I never said, 'destroy the term Turk' either.

I was talking about the law in the constitution. The laws need to be politically correct. And Turk milleti, simply isn't politically correct. Not everyone in Turkey can identify themselves with 'Turk milleti', but the law does refer to everyone in Turkey. Turkiye milleti represents the realities of Turkey better anyway. Everyone in Turkey can identify themselves with Turkiye milleti.

The rest of what you said seems to me like it's over-exaggerated to support your point. Or maybe you are just trying to scare me (and anyone reading it) into supporting your opinion.

 

[TurAr]

I never said, 'destroy the term Turk' either.

I was talking about the law in the constitution. The laws need to be politically correct. And Turk milleti, simply isn't politically correct. Not everyone in Turkey can identify themselves with 'Turk milleti', but the law does refer to everyone in Turkey. Turkiye milleti represents the realities of Turkey better anyway. Everyone in Turkey can identify themselves with Turkiye milleti.

The rest of what you said seems to me like it's over-exaggerated to support your point. Or maybe you are just trying to scare me (and anyone reading it) into supporting your opinion.

If the state didn't recognize the minorities in Turkey, as it was the case just a couple of decades ago, then you would be right. Referring to all the people in Turkey as 'Türk Milleti' would be a clear indication/desire for assimilation. But today, that is not the case and IMO, as long as you recognize their existence, there is nothing wrong to refer to the people like that regardless their ethnicity. If you still think otherwise however, then you should also be thinking that the name of the country, which is Türkiye, and the name of its flag, which is 'Türk bayrağı' should also be changed. Should we also change the name of the country and its flag too? Because if not, you are contradicting with yourself.

 

[Inspector Spacetime]

If the state didn't recognize the minorities in Turkey, as it was the case just a couple of decades ago, then you would be right. Referring to all the people in Turkey as 'Türk Milleti' would be a clear indication/desire for assimilation. But today, that is not the case and IMO, as long as you recognize their existence, there is nothing wrong to refer to the people like that regardless their ethnicity. If you still think otherwise however, then you should also be thinking that the name of the country, which is Türkiye, and the name of its flag, which is 'Türk bayrağı' should also be changed. Should we also change the name of the country and its flag too? Because if not, you are contradicting with yourself.

You are saying it would be contradicting myself if I wouldn't want a change in the name of the country and the flag as well. This is kinda looking at the situation in a black & white manner don't you think? There is also a huge gray area to consider. It's proposed to change the law from Turk vatandasligi to Turkiye vatandasligi (which has the name of the country in it to begin with). The name of the country is not in question. The changing of the name of the Turkish flag isn't in question either as far as I know.

Usually if a law is subject to arguments, it shows that there is some sort of flaw in it. And this particular law has been argued over for years now.

 

[BronzePlaque]

ah be Cimbom..Olmayınca olmuyor..Neyse artık lige konsantre olucaz

 

[IndoUS]

That is one confusing title

 

[BronzePlaque]

well it appears that, this French man who opened Turkish Flag, lost 7k euros in Greek Cyprus bank and thats why he opened that flag as a protest