Greek and Turkish jets harass each other over international waters

[atatwolf]

Ok take them back now, Turkey has more legitimate claim on those islands than Northern Cyprus tbh. Maybe that can actually be a part of a peaceful resolution for the Cyprus issue, all the islands back to Turkey for returning Cyprus to a united country, I'm just spitballing here of course. I admit I may not be very educated in this area.

Island is not the problem. The Greeks want to claim almost the enire sea and air space in the Aegean sea because there are a couple of islands there. Of course this is not acceptable since it would lock us up and we would need to ask permission everytime we would dock or fly away from our own shores. Turkey has a casus beli on Greece if lock us up in our own sea.

 

[As is - where is]

Innocent passage...?

 

[Kambojaric]

Ottoman, Safavi and Mughal Empires were land empires with no or very weak navies. Even Chinese under Mao did not march into Taiwan island in 1948 to end the Chiang Kai-shek rule and they still face Taiwan problem.

Safavi and Mughals yes but the Ottomans did dominate the Mediteranean during their peak (Battle of Preveza - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Battle of Djerba - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia They even sent naval expeditions to SE Asia forming an alliance with Aceh. They also had a presence in South Asia where they allied with some local Sultans against the Portuguese. However by the time of the 1800s yes their navy was weak hence the inability to lay a claim on these islands. I was surprised to read recently that almost half of Crete's population was Muslim in the early 1800s many of them probably Turks.

 

[As is - where is]

wiki, relevant to the Muslim population in Crete.

Ottoman rule

The Ottomans conquered Crete in 1669, after the siege of Candia. Many Greek Cretans fled to other regions of the Republic of Venice after the Ottoman-Venetian Wars, some even prospering such as the family of Simone Stratigo (c. 1733 - c. 1824) who migrated to Dalamatia from Crete in 1669. Islamic presence on the island, aside from the interlude of the Arab occupation, was cemented by the Ottoman conquest. Most Cretan Muslims were local Greek converts who spoke Cretan Greek, but in the island's 19th-century political context they came to be viewed by the Christian population as Turks. Contemporary estimates vary, but on the eve of the Greek War of Independence , as much as 45% of the population of the island may have been Muslim. A number of Sufi orders were widespread throughout the island, the Bektashi order being the most prevalent, possessing at least five tekkes. Many among them were crypto-Christians who converted back to Christianity in subsequent years, while many Cretan Turks fled Crete because of the unrest, settling in Turkey, Rhodes, Syria, Libya and elsewhere. By 1900, 11% of the population was Muslim. Those remaining were relocated in 1924 Population exchange between Greece and Turkey.

Continued here: Crete - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[ArsalanKhan21]

True or not, this doesn't really have to do with the problems at hand or the incident though.

If in 1974 Greece would have gone to war with Turkey over Cyprus then Turkey would have taken over all the islands near the Turkish coast. Then we will not have this issue that few rocks along the Turkish mainland are considered as Greek and there is conflict over maritime and air boundary. Turkish Air Force is flying over Aegean near its coast and not near Athens threatening Greece. Its about time Greece accept what is Turkey offering in airspace and sea delimitation. The next best option is to draw a line in the middle of the Aegean Sea and all the islands on the Turkish side must belong to Turkey.

 

[flamer84]

If in 1974 Greece would have gone to war with Turkey over Cyprus then Turkey would have taken over all the islands near the Turkish coast. Then we will not have this issue that few rocks along the Turkish mainland are considered as Greek and there is conflict over maritime and air boundary. Turkish Air Force is flying over Aegean near its coast and not near Athens threatening Greece. Its about time Greece accept what is Turkish offering in airspace and sea delimitation. The next best option is to draw a line in the middle of the Aegean Sea and all the islands on the Turkish side must belong to Turkey.

Those islands are internationally recognised Greek territory so that's not even an issue.

 

[ArsalanKhan21]

Those islands are internationally recognised Greek territory so that's not even an issue.

Yes like in Azerbaijan, Georgia, Moldova and Ukraine and their internationally recognized borders while some of their land is under the occupation of foreign powers.

 

[flamer84]

Yes like in Azerbaijan, Georgia, Moldova and Ukraine and their internationally recognized borders while some of their land is under the occupation of foreign powers.

Greece is no "foreign power" but a country who was those islands under all normal international treaties and if you think that Turkey could invade and ocuppy teritory from a fellow NATO member or a EU member ,i really have to break it to you but you're sadly making an error of judgement.

 

[ArsalanKhan21]

Greece is no "foreign power" but a country who was those islands under all normal international treaties and if you think that Turkey could invade and ocuppy teritory from a fellow NATO member or a EU member ,i really have to break it to you but you're sadly making an error of judgement.

My point is that European countries borders are still being redrawn by force. By "foreign power" I mean the Russians that have changed de facto borders of Azerbaijan, Georgia, Moldova and Ukraine.

 

[flamer84]

My point is that European countries borders are still being redrawn by force. By "foreign power" I mean the Russians that have changed de facto borders of Azerbaijan, Georgia, Moldova and Ukraine.

Russia is Russia and all those countries you've mentioned are not NATO and EU members.

 

[As is - where is]

Because Russia thinks that it's above international law, that doesn't mean that Turkey (or any country) should think so as well. Russia is being punished for what it has done, no country should pull stuff like that and keep going.

ArsalanKhan21, what you write is really confusing. There are specific issues with specific solutions. I don't know what you propose or how that would solve anything.

 

[atatwolf]

Those islands are internationally recognised Greek territory so that's not even an issue.

Not if Greece declares war on Turkey for fulfilling their role as protector of Cyprus government. Greece tried to do an illegal coup and ethnically cleanse Turkish Cypriots from Cyprus the same way they did on Crete. In case of war, Turkey would have the right to occupy strategic spots in the Aegean and in Greece to protect their safety. On the negotiation table it will turn out who will own what. It would be logical for Turkey to demand the Islands and Thrace for war reparations.

 

[ArsalanKhan21]

ArsalanKhan21, what you write is really confusing. There are specific issues with specific solutions. I don't know what you propose or how that would solve anything.

I do not war between Greece and Turkey or change of borders. But after years of conflict and weekly air force violations you have to make a decision. What is wrong with accepting internationalal air and see delimitation and thus protecting Greek islands. Some countries have 200 miles EEZ on the sea along their coast while in the Aegean uninhabited islands rocks lie along the Turkish coast. Greece could accept 6 instead of 10 nautical mile border and end this conflict.

 

[As is - where is]

I do not war between Greece and Turkey or change of borders. But after years of conflict and weekly air force violations you have to make a decision.

So far so good.

What is wrong with accepting internationalal air and see delimitation and thus protecting Greek islands.

Nothing. That's exactly what should be done.

Some countries have 200 miles EEZ on the sea along their coast while in the Aegean uninhabited islands rocks lie along the Turkish coast. Greece could accept 6 instead of 10 nautical mile border and end this conflict.

Uninhabited islets and rocks that can't sustain human habitation or economic life of their own should not have an EEZ. That's a given in international law. I don't think that there's a dispute there. Turkey on the other hand claims that none of the Greek islands near Turkey, even the ones that are large enough to sustain human habitation or economic life of their own should have an EEZ. This on the other hand is not something debatable in international law but just something Turkey claims.

Greece currently accepts that its territorial waters extend 6 nautical miles from its coasts but that it does have the right extend them to 12 nautical miles. Turkey threatens that if Greece exercises this right given to it by international law, it's going to start a war. Again, a threat with no legal standing or meaning.

 

[wiseone2]

Nope smartest thing Greece could do at the moment.

Stage one, declare war on Turkey.

Stage two, Complete and absolute surrender 5 minutes later.

Stage three, debt payment...sorry see Turkey we are a subject nation

greeks are not paying anyways
why go to the charade of a war ?