Global Religious landscape- Pew Forum

[Sashan]

Point me to one as I am interested in reading and may be Tamils on PDF can share their views as well as they must be knowing about their literature more than you or others on PDF..

@Sashan - you are needed on this thread. Please let us know if there were any Vedic barbaric assaults on Tamil indigenous culture as Pakistani Think tank is making some tall claims here on this thread.

The Tamilian culture follows both a blend of vedic and ancient culture and the blending happened right in Tamilnadu when Hindu religion was going through renaissance through Bhakthi movement under 63 nayanars and 12 alvars actively supported by the tamil kings and many of these what is called 75 apostles of Bhakti movement are non-brahmins including non-touchables. The difference is North Indians follow Rama and Krishna while South Indians, especially tamilians follow Shiva and Vishnu along with dieties like Murugan or Subramanya.

The dravidian nationalists opposed casteism and were anti-brahminical mainly for the caste purposes and were anti-hindu as well(while Periyar was against all religions including Islam, the later leaders like Karunanidhi were nothing but hypocrites who would not say a word against Islam or Christianity). They are proud of the tamil language as well.

So if you take the tamilians, even the agnostic ones, many oppose casteism(the reason why the patronymy is practiced in TN though they tend to practice the casteism within their families when it comes to marriage) and love their language but they generally do not differentiate between vedic culture or ancient culture and many would not know the differences. That is the reason one would see a shiva temple or vishnu temple in almost every village and towns and these temples are part and parcel of their culture and the reason Tamilnadu is famous for so many temples.

 

[Azazel]

The evolution of Hinduism I am talking about is your claim that it has become more tolerant and the ancient purge of Buddhism is unlikely to be repeated.

That is patently false, as seen by the resurgence of Hindutva extremism as soon as the colonial yoke was removed.

Provide the proof of the so called ancient purge of Buddhism.

 

[abhishekgoel80]

I have learned irrespective of religion does it make me pundit?

In India there is a bachelor and Masters in Religious text Shastra. They become shastri. Meet the guru of My mother-in-law (under a bit of pressure from better half) heard (don't know how much its true) that he has done a research (phd) in religion and now he is acting as a guru.

My personal opinion about guru was that they were having a very comfortable life style which their followers claim is very disciplined.

Regarding being referred in public one of muslim elder in my knowledge is referred as panditji. He read horoscopes and conduct a bit of ceremonies.

Swami Ramdev is born Yadav (OBC/other backward caste).

Not sure if this may not qualify him as a pundit in all respect. Most of such men are supposedly celibate(sanyasi).
About the marriage tradition in country we are living in orbit where the city inter religions and inter caste marriage are common in village the honor killing is prevalent if the marriage happens within village.

 

[Sashan]

We have discussed this before, and I know you guys will not accept the fact that Dravidian nationalists reject many Vedic influences. Periyar, for example, was against several, what he called, Aryan impositions like caste system, Sanskrit, etc. Some nationalists favor specific forms of Hinduism, e.g. Saivism, which they consider to be least polluted by Aryan impositions.




Joe Shearer is a self-declared atheist, but he is intellectually consistent and fair in his criticism of excesses by all religions. This is different from some other posters who hide behind the label atheist, but are hardcore defenders of Hinduism.

Periyar was against caste system and some of the reforms were good but mind it - he opposed every religion including Islam.


As for Joe Shearer, he claims to be an atheist but I would say he is more anti-hindu than anti-islam or anti-christian(especially when he called right wing hindu organizations as worse ones than the perps of 26/11).

@Developereo - As for you stating many of the atheists as hardcore defenders of hinduism - if you take my case it is true. I have seen the hypocrisy of many like Karunanidhi and Joe Shearer and other psuedosecularists who trash hinduism at every given chance but do not do the same against other religions. I am a beef eating non-practicing hindu who never believed in gods ever since my very young age but for me hinduism is a culture. I used to call myself an atheist but have since then introspected and would call myself an hindu. So I defend my religion at every given chance due to the morbid assault by these pseudosecularists and also it is my culture as well.
So if I am an hypocrite so be it.

 

[Developereo]

Aryan invasion in sub continent.

The Dravidian nationalists talk about a cultural invasion of Aryan culture onto the south. That is accepted by everyone, regardless of whether a physical Aryan invasion occurred or not.

Remember, the discussion here is about cultural (religious) conquests, not physical, and the fact is that Vedic culture was imposed on the south by force.

Atheism is not a belief system.Its the rejection of belief systems.

I will not belabor this point. There are various belief systems about the role of God in the universe. Atheism is one of many belief systems; others being monotheistic religions, pantheism, etc.

Who are these extreme religious Hindus??And why don't they accept tribal deities.

I don't know what to tell you. Extremist Hindus do not accept the tribal deities.

I've read history of Buddhism in the subcontinent.And I fail find any evidence for your claims.

Disappearance of Buddhism From India: An Untold Story

There are many, many more resources on the net. Even your fellow Indians do not dispute that Buddhism was eradicated from India.

 

[Bang Galore]

But that is precisely the tactic being used against Islam and Christianity.

It's why I made the point, however some activities in other religions enjoys some religious sanction, distorted or otherwise, don't think that is the case here.

The vast majority of Muslims and Christians have no interest in converting anyone and conquering the world. It is a fringe minority, just like in Hinduism.

Not really. It is an act of faith in some religions to convert, you have to stretch the religion in Hinduism to do so.

That was the whole point, that every religion has an expansionist element.

Not really, even those indulging in return conversions(or whatever it is called) have no interest in converting anyone who wasn't(or in extreme cases whose ancestors weren't) Hindu originally. That is hardly a definition of expansionism.

 

[Sashan]

The Dravidian nationalists talk about a cultural invasion of Aryan culture onto the south. That is accepted by everyone, regardless of whether a physical Aryan invasion occurred or not.

Read my post #181 as for you stating the cultural invasion of Aryan culture.

 

[Developereo]

Periyar was against caste system and some of the reforms were good but mind it - he opposed every religion including Islam.

No issues there. The point was that he believed Vedic influences to be a forced imposition, which was the point I was making.

As for Joe Shearer, he claims to be an atheist but I would say he is more anti-hindu than anti-islam or anti-christian(especially when he called right wing hindu organizations as worse ones than the perps of 26/11).

I guess you haven't seen him rip into Muslim posters. Anyway, I respect him because I find him to be fair.

 

[abhishekgoel80]

The evolution of Hinduism I am talking about is your claim that it has become more tolerant and the ancient purge of Buddhism is unlikely to be repeated.

That is patently false, as seen by the resurgence of Hindutva extremism as soon as the colonial yoke was removed.

There have between massacres bloody clashes between shaivaites and vaishnavites and other sub-sects but hinduism in subcontinent encompasses Buddhism so saying Hinduism purge Buddhism is fallacy, you can definitely blame vaishnavites shaivites. Its more akin to saying Islamic forces vanquished shias in xxx country more specifically it would be sunni.

 

[Developereo]

It is an act of faith in some religions to convert

Some interpretations of some religions.

Not really, even those indulging in return conversions(or whatever it is called) have no interest in converting anyone who wasn't(or in extreme cases whose ancestors weren't) Hindu originally. That is hardly a definition of expansionism.

Were the ancestors of the ancient Balinese or Cambodians Hindu before the Chola empire came to town?

Are Hindus born that way out of the soil, or were their distant ancestors converted at some point?

The point is that all religions are acquired, and everyone is a convert or descended from converts.

 

[Jade]

Religion is good, but anything overt is bad. Same is true of religion too.

 

[Developereo]

for me hinduism is a culture. I used to call myself an atheist but have since then introspected and would call myself an hindu. So I defend my religion at every given chance due to the morbid assault by these pseudosecularists and also it is my culture as well.

That's the Hindutva roadmap to thwart secularism: smuggle Hinduism into a privileged role through the Trojan horse of culture.

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

Isn't religious discussion banned on this forum ?

 

[Sashan]

That's the Hindutva roadmap to thwart secularism: smuggle Hinduism into a privileged role through the Trojan horse of culture.

There is nothing like secularism in Indian constitution - the secularism is due to the majority(mark it as hindus) who hate extreme hinduism. So if you are talking about hindutva roadmap as enforcement of extreme hinduism then the majority will reject it.

 

[KRAIT]

That's the Hindutva roadmap to thwart secularism: smuggle Hinduism into a privileged role through the Trojan horse of culture.

And Pakistan is becoming its major victim through TV channels and movies. Isn't it ?