Given a chance, Kashmiris would like to break away: CIA

[Awesome]

You are missing the point. It isn't specifically about "India joining the US", but the argument that if another country is economically, technologically, militarily superior, then others need to "become part of it". By that argument the majority of Asia should just join China!

Globalisation and free trade have rendered such ideas of "monolithic entities" obsolete. The EU takes advantage of this new "world order", and actually contradicts your argument. EU countries have retained their independence and identity, while also taking advantage of associations and agreements with other nations to bolster their economies etc.

A separation from India will not hurt Kashmir one bit. They can become a part of SAARC and utilize land routes through both India and Pakistan for trading purposes, and take advantage of the economies of both.

Without the IA and separatist violence, Kashmir can have a better tourism industry than Switzerland.

Kashmir would not have any power shortage due to it's vast hydro-power stations that it can make.

Not to forget the Kashmiri arts.

They are shrewd Business people, and if they are still saying they want to separate from India, they are making a sensible decision.

 

[Always Neutral]

Without the IA and separatist violence, Kashmir can have a better tourism industry than Switzerland.

Kashmir would not have any power shortage due to it's vast hydro-power stations that it can make.

Not to forget the Kashmiri arts.

They are shrewd Business people, and if they are still saying they want to separate from India, they are making a sensible decision.

Can any Pakistani or Indian or Jammui, Kashmiri, Lehi, Ladhaki, NA etc tell me what Kashmir is and what they really want?

Stop living in this hipocracy. Please tackle poverty, Illiteracy, Womans and child rights before trying to say your leaders are the best.

The borders are drawn for ever even the PMs and Gens of Pakistan and India accept the same so why so much hate in this forum from the arm chair Generals.

Let peace prevail in this region. Make love not war.

 

[Awesome]

Can any Pakistani or Indian or Jammui, Kashmiri, Lehi, Ladhaki, NA etc tell me what Kashmir is and what they really want?

Stop living in this hipocracy. Please tackle poverty, Illiteracy, Womans and child rights before trying to say your leaders are the best.

The borders are drawn for ever even the PMs and Gens of Pakistan and India accept the same so why so much hate in this forum from the arm chair Generals.

Let peace prevail in this region. Make love not war.

Dude there was not a word of hate in my post man... Nor has anyone suggested solving this through hate. It's all about "If given the chance".

Of course as MM said "Who gives a $hit?".

What does Peace mean to you? Subjugation or Freedom? You choose.

"Make love not war" sounds good, but all problems can't be solved by smoking pot and rock concerts .

 

[White]

Just for Your info:
Kashmir is BIGGER in size than UK, Taking about Peace; Kashmir has been cut into several Pieces.
If India/Pakistan hold a Plebiscite and then Kashmirz elect to join the big nation (or Pakistan), it will be an honor for them. But if India/ Pakistan /China/etc treat it as a land dispute and impose their armies over the UN Resolutions then where is the end of the misfortunes of this nation which ones ruled most of Current India and Pakistan!!

BTW, What is the current position of US/CIA on Kashmir as of today?

 

[Contrarian]

I ask one question: Does it matter whether people think whether Kashmir would gain or lose if the decided to break away from India. Reality check for all: This is NOT an option! THey cannot do that, no one can make them do that. So better to end this discussion.

 

[Awesome]

No way, ending the discussion is like ending the fight.

You guys believe in the wheel of life right? Once you are up, tomorrow the other would be. India can really push the defence of Kashmir to big limits but not indefinitely.

Ultimately it is INDIA that will have to give up or end the resistance somehow. By contrast, the resistance can be carried out indefinitely.

 

[Contrarian]

Time is something India has in its favour. It is GoI's aim that in time, with more and more economic prosperity in the region the terrorism will fade away,coupled with army's crackdown. Iron Fist in Velvet glove, the army calls it. This is exactly what China plans for Tibet. Development will make sure things go India's way. This is not to mention that slowly the govt will remove Kashmir's special status from the constituition and then companies can invest freely there and people can buy land, etc, etc. Its all going to dilute the terrorism.

Like i said, time is on our side.

 

[Awesome]

Time is something India has in its favour. It is GoI's aim that in time, with more and more economic prosperity in the region the terrorism will fade away,coupled with army's crackdown. Iron Fist in Velvet glove, the army calls it. This is exactly what China plans for Tibet. Development will make sure things go India's way. This is not to mention that slowly the govt will remove Kashmir's special status from the constituition and then companies can invest freely there and people can buy land, etc, etc. Its all going to dilute the terrorism.

Like i said, time is on our side.

Yaar you couldn't win the hearts of 150 million Muslims in all of India, what special lap dance you got for the Kashmiris?

 

[Contrarian]

Incidentally Asim, who says that those 150 million Muslims of India will ever side with Pakistan in case of a conflict? I know COUNTLESS muslims who are proud Indians. So im sorry, there are always those who are dissatisfied with the country, if you take them as examples to depict all the Indian Muslims, it will be a grave mistake.

Much the same when Muslims in IA attacked PA in Kargil.

 

[Marathaman]

Without the IA and separatist violence, Kashmir can have a better tourism industry than Switzerland.

Without the terror attacks by foreign militants....the second part of your statement becomes true.

Kashmir would not have any power shortage due to it's vast hydro-power stations that it can make.

Not to forget the Kashmiri arts.

Totally agree. As a part of India they can do this much better than they ever will by separating. A perfect example of this sort is Bangladesh.

They are shrewd Business people, and if they are still saying they want to separate from India, they are making a sensible decision.

They might be shrewd business people, but this decision is not based on "shrewdness" but is a natural reaction to years of terrorist violence.
A peaceful kashmir will prosper...which is exactly what the militants don't want....so they will not allow peace to prevail in the valley. They want to arouse anti-Indian sentiments and religious fundamentalism so that Kashmir would want an Islamic government.

 

[Marathaman]

Yaar you couldn't win the hearts of 150 million Muslims in all of India, what special lap dance you got for the Kashmiris?

Don't kid yourself man. The vast majority of Indians muslims are loyal to the country of their birth...India.
There is a reason why their grandparents decided to stay in India during partition..

 

[haviZsultan]

Don't kid yourself man. The vast majority of Indians muslims are loyal to the country of their birth...India.
There is a reason why their grandparents decided to stay in India during partition..

Who is kidding who? Please grow up! Loyal huh??? Well ask all those who are shifting to Pakistan how loyal they are to India! Check statistics about how many muslims the nationalists helped shift to Pakistan in 2006 and then come back and moan. Would muslims say to the majority directly that they are unhappy with how muslims are treated as second-class citizens in India and how they suffer discrimination when the majority itself is responsible for it? Man, they don't think it is wise to say all this in public! My family never mentions all this in public in India and play along... Otherwise someone like you guys will be standing outside their doorstep with a gun in their hands!

Well they are saying they made a mistake now... atleast mine are! Many remained because they had land and property there and did not want to give it up! They did not remain out of love for India!

 

[haviZsultan]

Incidentally Asim, who says that those 150 million Muslims of India will ever side with Pakistan in case of a conflict? I know COUNTLESS muslims who are proud Indians. So im sorry, there are always those who are dissatisfied with the country, if you take them as examples to depict all the Indian Muslims, it will be a grave mistake.

Much the same when Muslims in IA attacked PA in Kargil.

They won't side with India either! I definately would'nt! I am siding with Pakistan... now you will come and cry that I am only half Indian so I say this... but my Indian cousins feel the same way. They think of Pakistan as an escape from Indian oppression and discrimination!

I know there are some loyal muslim Indians too like Salim dude here but there are too few! Muslims always are the ones who have been vouching to avoid a conflict when Hindus have been shouting for war. Well most of the muslims will not happily support India in case of a war. Maybe you forgot the muslim protests against the 1971 war and support for the Bahinis.

 

[Awesome]

Don't kid yourself man. The vast majority of Indians muslims are loyal to the country of their birth...India.
There is a reason why their grandparents decided to stay in India during partition..

Hey my grandparents almost stayed in India. Reason? Lots of property, life, business in UP which would either have to be left or sold at dirt cheap prices and of course the fact that crossing the border was almost equivalent to a death wish. Most Muslim didn't stay back in India out of love for the country, but they just couldn't leave.

Don't think that just because Muslim celebrities of Bollywood are so enthusiastic the rest of them match favor India as well.

I'm not kidding myself, but you are. Having grown up in this multicultural city with diaspora so rich, I have a significant contact with the Indian Muslims. Till date they make more Hindu/Muslim distinction than the Pakistanis. How many times I'm shocked when they casually classify you all as the "Hindu people"...

Some people from Gujarat are fanatical about their support to Pakistan! They talk about false urban legends: "Indian Army was sent to control the violence in Gujarat because Musharraf threatened Vajpayee to do so". They see Pakistan as their savior in a situation Pakistan couldn't have done anything even if it wanted to.

Of course most of these feelings are not their fault but the extremist Hindus of India. For example the police to whom the Muslims ran for protection and they told them to go ask help from Pakistan.

I'm not saying that it's a good thing for Pakistan that Indian Muslims think like this. We don't want any of them, although we do sympathize and hope the situation turns in India. We do however align ourselves with the Kashmiris who are not Indians.

 

[Awesome]

I know there are some loyal muslim Indians too like Salim dude here

Dude, in India a Muslim name doesn't always mean a Muslim person.

Again it's not about loyalty to India or favoring Pakistan. It's about winning their hearts and showing dissent over the treatment they have received.

Perhaps Kashif can enlighten us more on this, he openly has shown dissent against some of India's policies, but I'm sure when it comes down to it, he'd identify himself as an Indian as he should.

Coming back to my original point, with such deep dissent in all of Indian Muslims in 60 years, what sort of a lap dance can the Indians offer the Kashmiris (who are on a warpath against India, not just dissent)?