Give us 5th Gen technology for fighter orders: IAF

[randomradio]

bhai jan i understand one thing few months ago india buy 36 rafale after 15 years of talks and defense minister said we have no more money to buy more rafale . and you here claiming 200-300- rafales like hot cakes .

Of course. The MMRCA deal fell through not because of money but because due process wasn't followed which made the cost more than it should have been. So when they said the program wasn't viable, it was because we were paying more than we should, not because we didn't have money. That's why even Dassault accepted the cancellation of the deal.

The GTG was signed only because the IAF wanted 2 squadrons of Rafales for dropping nukes otherwise the tender would have been withdrawn and a new tender would have been launched, like it has now.

Basically, the GTG has nothing to do with the MMRCA tender. Both are independent. If Typhoon had won the MMRCA tender, we would still have bought 36 Rafales for the nuclear mission.

http://indianexpress.com/article/in...-unvialble-defence-minister-manohar-parrikar/
Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar has said the NDA government will buy only 36 of the French aircraft, to be used for strategic purposes, and no more.

 

[Storm Force]

Indian .request is for assistance in design and manufacture of its own amca

The assistance will be tender to dassult Lockheed MacDonald doglus .

The carrot is a order for a fourth generation fighter order and billions more in assisting g on amca

I Think French will win the tender for amca as they are helping in engine r design and have rafales orders

 

[Papa Dragon]

These 400 jets would only be 1/3rd of our total fighter fleet between both IAF and IN.

Right now, there's work on for a second tranche of 36 jets, the tender for 110 jets and another one for 57 jets. Those alone will take the Rafale numbers to 239. These numbers are pretty much assured.

Whatever jet is chosen by IN in this 57-jet tender will also see a second order of 100 jets. So IN's total fleet will be 45 Mig-29Ks, 57 Rafale-Ms and 100 more Rafales. The follow-on 100 jets is for the 3rd carrier. So 157 for the IN.

Then it's obvious that the IAF will exercise their right to get 50% options. Their agenda is to operate 200 to 250 Rafales. So 36+36+110+55 = 237 for the IAF. In exchange HAL gets orders for 324 LCAs.

237+157 = 394

There is nothing wrong in dreaming and having fanboy wishlists. But, on a realistic note, MoD doesn't have the funds to procure 400 Rafales which would obviously cost us a bomb even if they're manufactured in India and I'm sure IAF wouldn't been keep to procure such a high number of 4th gen fighters when the world is moving to 5th gen.

 

[Ajaxpaul]

Ya, yesterday china acknowledged that the massive Gagan Shakti excercise which India is conducting is not a cup of tea of anybody else except US. You are right. We are moving int that direction.

When ?

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

France refused ToT for Rafale (India ended up buying 36 Rafale off-the-shelf).

Russia refused ToT for the FGFA.

USA won't even sell F-22's to Israel, forget any ToT for 5th generation tech, they won't even give ToT for their ancient F-16's.

Nobody is going to transfer their core technologies to their own customers, that is a suicidal business model.

 

[HariPrasad]

When ?

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/wargame-wins-praise-from-unlikely-quarters.554245/#post-10424093

 

[randomradio]

There is nothing wrong in dreaming and having fanboy wishlists. But, on a realistic note, MoD doesn't have the funds to procure 400 Rafales which would obviously cost us a bomb even if they're manufactured in India and I'm sure IAF wouldn't been keep to procure such a high number of 4th gen fighters when the world is moving to 5th gen.

It's gonna start slow obviously.

2020 - IAF order for 36. Delivery until 2025.
2022 - IN order for 57. Delivery from 2025.
2023 - IAF order for 110. Delivery from 2026.
2030+ - IAF and IN orders for more MII jets.

We are talking about a period from 2020 to 2035. And most of the deliveries will start from 2025. Until then we will at best absorb only 11 jets a year, that's $2.5B a year, less than that.

We will also be moving to 5th gen at this time, in parallel. But we need 500-600 jets on contract or else we won't get to 42 squadrons. Our 5th gen procurement won't cross 5 squadrons by 2030. In 2026, we will at best have 4-8 PAK FA if we order it, not 4-8 squadrons, 4-8 jets.

http://indianexpress.com/article/in...in-edge-outgoing-iaf-chief-arup-raha-4448992/
Outgoing IAF chief Arup Raha on Wednesday made it clear that just 36 Rafale fighter jets would not suffice as India needs about 200-250 more fighters to maintain its combat edge over adversaries.

 

[Papa Dragon]

It's gonna start slow obviously.

2020 - IAF order for 36. Delivery until 2025.
2022 - IN order for 57. Delivery from 2025.
2023 - IAF order for 110. Delivery from 2026.
2030+ - IAF and IN orders for more MII jets.

We are talking about a period from 2020 to 2035. And most of the deliveries will start from 2025. Until then we will at best absorb only 11 jets a year, that's $2.5B a year, less than that.

We will also be moving to 5th gen at this time, in parallel. But we need 500-600 jets on contract or else we won't get to 42 squadrons. Our 5th gen procurement won't cross 5 squadrons by 2030. In 2026, we will at best have 4-8 PAK FA if we order it, not 4-8 squadrons, 4-8 jets.

http://indianexpress.com/article/in...in-edge-outgoing-iaf-chief-arup-raha-4448992/
Outgoing IAF chief Arup Raha on Wednesday made it clear that just 36 Rafale fighter jets would not suffice as India needs about 200-250 more fighters to maintain its combat edge over adversaries.

IAF would be dumb it they're acquiring 4th gen tech in 2030+ where US would be retiring their 5th gen fighters and acquiring 6th gen and I'm sure even pakistan would have a couple of J-31 squadrons by that time and PAK-FA is pretty much a dead deal.

 

[Storm Force]

France refused ToT for Rafale (India ended up buying 36 Rafale off-the-shelf).

Russia refused ToT for the FGFA.

USA won't even sell F-22's to Israel, forget any ToT for 5th generation tech, they won't even give ToT for their ancient F-16's.

Nobody is going to transfer their core technologies to their own customers, that is a suicidal business model.

SO CARE TO EXPLAIN HOW CHINA is transgferring core technology of Thunders to Pakistan OR is this ASSEMBLY only.

ALSO India is asking for assistance in designing the AMCA its not asking for CORE technology of F35 or Rafale

ITS ASKING FOR support in designing its OWN CORE technology AND will pay the hundreds of millions in dollars for guidance

AMCA flight control and airframe will be indengious and improvements from LCA technology
The Engine will be Kavaerri being designed with aid from France already
India can work with Israel & USA on radar cockpit technology

ITS NEEDS THE stealth technology ie radar reduction etc

 

[duhastmish]

give us fifth gen airforce pilots. the staff and ethics.
you get what u want show your worthyness.
most importantly win a few oil wars to earn us few trillion usd to give you a few billion dont look at poor cibilian pocket for fancy toy.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

its 110+57 Rafale ...
everythink is planed ..

how quickly people forget ....just a month back
Macron says '
Want to be India's 1st strategic partner in Europe."

Meanwhile, Modi was discussing Gripen in Sweden this week.

 

[UKBengali]

SO CARE TO EXPLAIN HOW CHINA is transgferring core technology of Thunders to Pakistan OR is this ASSEMBLY only.

ALSO India is asking for assistance in designing the AMCA its not asking for CORE technology of F35 or Rafale

ITS ASKING FOR support in designing its OWN CORE technology AND will pay the hundreds of millions in dollars for guidance

AMCA flight control and airframe will be indengious and improvements from LCA technology
The Engine will be Kavaerri being designed with aid from France already
India can work with Israel & USA on radar cockpit technology

ITS NEEDS THE stealth technology ie radar reduction etc

Dude, it does not work that way.
No amount of money will entice another state to help India develop core technology.

Is India able to develop it's own radar-guided long-range SAMs as the Jews have not helped the Indians develop the seeker technology for the LRSAM? The LRSAM will have an Indian body and propulsion with a Jewish radar seeker. They have in essence just developed that seeker with Indian money and progressed their seeker technology to another level for their own benefit. India just gets access to it before any other customer.

India will have to spend many tens of billions of US dollars and many more decades to be able to develop an indigenous and competitive fighter aircraft.

 

[randomradio]

IAF would be dumb it they're acquiring 4th gen tech in 2030+ where US would be retiring their 5th gen fighters and acquiring 6th gen and I'm sure even pakistan would have a couple of J-31 squadrons by that time and PAK-FA is pretty much a dead deal.

Rafale is not 4th gen. It only looks like a 4th gen, the version we are going for through the tender will be more advanced and capable than the F-22 and F-35.

 

[Rizwan Alam]

Rafale is not 4th gen. It only looks like a 4th gen, the version we are going for through the tender will be more advanced and capable than the F-22 and F-35.

I am no specialist but It hurts... thorra sa kam plz

 

[Sliver]

Rafale is not 4th gen. It only looks like a 4th gen, the version we are going for through the tender will be more advanced and capable than the F-22 and F-35.

Rafale more capable than F-35?