Give kashmir or take kashmir. Make up your mind as enemy is getting bold

[xyxmt]

a thousand or ten thousand years does not matter right now.

At the moment, your 2 lakh terrorists are nothing but a drop of water in a very very large bucket. Even if Pakistan doubled its army size, it won't be able to take a net 50 sq kms of territory from India, let alone Kashmir.

You know what Einstein said -Only fools expect different results while doing the same thing over and over again.

have achieved different results every time and new results are coming soon. as far as who can do what...yes in talks you can do a lot more..in real you dont have balls, just barking dogs

 

[Albatross]

It is not 1948 anymore.

I agree with you dear as thats a fact but as you have seen you offered them a permanent border at LOC they started talking about Baltistan . INKA WOHI HAAL HE K UNGLI PAKRAO GAI TO POORA BAZOO PAKAR LE GAI

We are a strong nation and India should be made to feel it .

A well equipped high altitude capable commando force in large number is the need of the hour and would be useful in securing CPEC at places where it will be exposed to indian threat.

 

[Sipahi]

We need to do nothing.... We just have to Fund ISI freely and our Lions will take care india in a manner they treated Russia.

We have to support ISI on every level possible as some "Self Proclaimed Reformers" of civil society and people on the payroll of other countries always do their best to make ISI controversial.

Just Love Your Own Pak Army And Intel Agencies unconditionally. They will take care of the rest

 

[Dushmann]

ok time to burst some bubbles formed by a delusional indian fanboy

- on your first point . if india could have done some thing like that, they would have done it by now. firsty in 1971 we didnt have nukes and india had an over whelming conventional superiority over us. and yet they stay put . if india couldnt do it then they wont be able to do it now. why ? because in 1971 you had atleast one super power in the soviet union to support you guys and none of our allies (read china, iran) other than usa could take on the soviets . Now though it is a very different ball game and will remain so in the forseable future. the chinese are more then strong enough to handle usa both diplomatically and militarily and india as well . in the present and future the chinese will not let pakistan fall to indian hand nor will they allow us to disintigrate as they know that we are one of their key allies in south asia. and tbh no one will want to annoy china now nor will they want to annoy them in the future. Sure india is growing. but the big boys need to china more than they need india and that will remain and china will now let their most important ally in south asia to be hurt . Which means india cant and will not do anything.

- you seceond point Pakistan is not srilanka, if your govt had the ability they would have done something when we were getting nuke tech . in the future with china leading india in such a cold war. i assure you china once again will not let their important ally to fall. that too for their own interest. and with china's influence increasing in the world , our position will only get better in such a conflict.

regarding development. yes india is growing and developing. but i assure you. china is in a whole different level compared to india . if the chinese stop their development today. it would take you guys decades to catch up ( might be an exgaretion but hopee you get the idea.)


all in all in the future not much will change in the future than current senario. what may happen is LOC will be turned into IB and thats that.

and pakistan as a terrorist nest is actually bad for india and so is a broken pakistan.


and i assurse you if the Chinese really need the base in srilanka they will get it. no amount of indian whining will stop it.

It was a mistake not to do so. I agree India has had a relatively soft policy. This needs to change. India should be more proactive and aggressive against Pakistan. Its not just about Pakistan but also about China.

Here I see so many Indians saying let's make LOC permanent - including the so called Right wingers.
I think that is very dangerous. It's like being soft on Nawabs of Bengal and Hyderabad and letting British East India company form strong base in their territory. That ended in colonization of India.

For me military base for any foreign power in Indian subcontinent is unacceptable. Giving away territory of former princely state of J&K means giving free hand to China and making way for Chinese naval base with nuclear submarines right next to India and threatening the Persian gulf region.

 

[Metanoia]

@Syed.Ali.Haider has expressed the only voice of reason here.

In my opinion both the establishments know very well that there can be no war between the two nations as it will lead to nothing but utter destruction on both the sides, therefore keeping the issue of Kashmir alive serves an important political purpose...the political purpose being that of a scapegoat.

If the issue is to be resolved a lot of stakeholders will simply loose their credibility overnight....and the general population will start asking their respective governments for REAL and MEANINGFUL issues to be solved, e.g. education, lifestyle, healthcare etc.

From the Pakistani context the Pakistan Army has the most to lose if somehow a permanent solution to Kashmir is reached.

 

[Jf Thunder]

No that would be wrong, for example India has an aircraft carrier and pakistan doesn't

for example we have air launched and sea launched anti carrier missiles

Option 1. Pakistan peacefully gives back occupied Princely state of J&K, including Gilgit Baltistan.
Option 2. India takes it back through war and breaks up Pakistan in pieces.

As an Indian citizen, no other option is acceptable to me.

why hasnt this exactly happened from 1947 - present?

 

[nForce]

It is not the first time that Modi has shown his utter hatred for Pakistan. Following is a brief summary of his actions after taking over as Pm.

1)Indian firing across Loc on end day killing dozens . 6 Oct 14
2) Then again in January IA fired across Loc using a large number of mortar shells
3)Despite positive statements of Pm nawaz cancelled secretary level dialogue to resume peace process.
4)He and his cabinet members never let go off any chance to malign Pakistan and goes the extra mile to unite fact and fiction.
5)Numerous proofs came to surface of Raw involvement in spreading terror in Pakistan ranging from discovery of indian currency and weapons, photos of militants like brahamdag bugti with their raw handler. mulla fazullah TTP chief being kept in a safe heaven by raw in Afghanistan.
6)Recent indian heart burn on a intel share deal between NDS and ISI (it was a deal between two sovereign states and indian reaction proved they don't want Afghanistan to adopt a balanced foreign policy and prefer people like Karzai who say yes to every indian demand)
7) Modi opposed CPEC during a meeting with Chinese president again intervening between affairs of two sovereign states though he was silenced by Chinese president saying china is only doing development.
8) And to top it up he now admitted in Dhaka the active role IA played in dividing Pakistan.

Everybody mean all intelligence agencies round the globe knows what India did in 1971 how the seeds of hatred were sown by them once they got a chance due to ZAB greed for power. IA commandos were used to kill civilians wearing PA uniforms and rest is all history.

My point here is Indian hatred for Pakistan is not new but now they have got a leader who is sadist and a world known criminal for killing thousands of innocent Muslims and is shameless beyond words lacking all human qualities and better be considered a beast disguised as a human. He will unify Indian hate for Pakistan and will try to isolate Pakistan to a point where he thinks we will withdraw our Iok claim and would be able to use Pakistan to access Iran, Afghanistan and central Asia. He believes in use of force and is very open in accepting so and I guess we should be ready for things heating up instantly after some major massacre of indian troops in Kashmir or some bomb blast's in cities both of which will be false flag ops most probably.

Now coming to Pakistan as a state we have contained militancy to a good extent as compared to 2008-09 but roots of the problem still exist which is worrying and needs to be dealt with asap only then we can focus On our real issue of India.

After having met and worked with indians of all castes and religions from north and south(in one of the worlds best multinational company where most of the people are highly educated and groomed)
I have concluded they have not yet accepted the reality of a separate muslim state and they all know deep with in that Kashmir being a muslim majority state was Never theirs as per two nation theory .

Now a painful reality check india owing to its bigger economy and religion(which align itself naturally with anti islam sentiments) has a successful diplomatic strategy and a more advanced army (I am not saying better) on the other hand Pakistan has no one to support her in the event of a war except Turkey(that too under tayab only) and china but that too will be limited if Pakistan is labeled as the aggressor .

Keeping in mind indian hatred and desire to make loc the border I have following two solutions and would like your input.

1) Make LOC international border withdrawing rights over IOK and make Azad Kashmir our 5th province and gilgit baltistan 6th.Give india rail, road, pipelines access to iran , afghanstan and central asia earning billions of dollars and getting rid of all militancy in country and region will be free of tensions. Pakistan in 5-10 years can be in worlds top 10 economies by just giving transit services to india and .

Two major drawback for this solution would be acute water shortage In pakistan if India as some intel suggested kept drilling underground tunnels to deviate indus river flow .In other words we will be dependent on Indiaa for our water.
Secondly thousands of martyrs who gave their blood to free their muslim brothers from oppression will go in vain destroying armys morale rendering it weak against our second biggest enemy Israel

2)Put our own house in order and then let the whole world know that Kashmir is ours and if nobody cares about UN resolutions we do and will get it byforce if not by diplomacy.
Distribute half of nukes across international border telling world we wont use them unless india violates international border and start our offensive from north from siachin and kargil sectors and arm Kashmiri youth let the two armies fight and the stronger will be winner and we all know who will that be.

If we can deter india from international border and fight a localized war in Kashmir with the help of kashmiries I am sure we can win it in less than a month.

In the former case Pakistanis will die a slow death looking for water and in the later case even if we loose in conquering the whole Kashmir we will gain some area forsure if attack is planned well plus Kashmir dispute will be highlighted in a way that nothing else can do.

I will personally go by the later solution as people like modi don't understand the language of saris and congratulation criminals like him only understand the language of bullets.

I agree with you. You should go for the second option. I especially like the part of localizing the war in Kashmir.

 

[Albatross]

Some people will not learn anything even if they faced same fate several times..

It actually applies to you and your country and is proved by desperate statements mode is making.

Carrying out fake operations just to raise the morale of actually dead populace.

Myanmar denies India killed rebels inside its territory - Channel NewsAsia

You people are so proud to be called Indian without realizing this name was given by British to you in 16th century owing to your skin color and manners of life same way they labeled the US native people "Indians"

Now we have formidable resources and can implement offensive defensive military strategy.

Every 30 Minutes an Indian Farmer Commits Suicide, Biotech Is Not To Blame - Forbes


clearly shows your resources and how you are utilizing them

 

[nForce]

for example we have air launched and sea launched anti carrier missiles


why hasnt this exactly happened from 1947 - present?

Forget everything else, war is fought on the basis of oil. Pakistan can sustain 2 weeks at max. 3 if civilian usage is controlled. India can outrun

There won't ever be a localized war in Kashmir if India feels pressured.

The only reason why India kept the Kargil issue localized was because the MEA(Ministry of External Affairs) was able to convince the MoD(Ministry of Defense - that runs the Army) that they will be able to damage Pakistan very effectively if the Army kept its ops localized to Kashmir. And the MEA delivered on their promise, Pakistan's international standing and credibility was shattered internationally.

However, if the Indian positions are ever at threat, India would escalate the war across the entire front.

Even that time too Indian navy was moving to impose a naval blockade on Karachi sea port.

Option 3: Convert the LoC/AGPL into a permanent and recognized international border.



There will be no more Kargils, and no nation, not even USA or China, can survive a nuclear war.

That Option is not acceptible. Probably it would have been acceptible in 50s, 60s or even 70s or early 80s.

But India has sustained some losses time to time due to Pakistani misadventures to capture Kashmir by force.
If all of as sudden Pakistan decides to convert loc unto IB, then I tthink justice is not being properly to all those who died as result if this conflict. That loss has to compensated. It can only be properly compensated by Indian takeover of Kashmir.

 

[Wajhee Nasir]

'

 

[Storm Force]

USELESS THREAD FULL OF FANTASY

 

[VCheng]

That Option is not acceptible. Probably it would have been acceptible in 50s, 60s or even 70s or early 80s.

But India has sustained some losses time to time due to Pakistani misadventures to capture Kashmir by force.
If all of as sudden Pakistan decides to convert loc unto IB, then I tthink justice is not being properly to all those who died as result if this conflict. That loss has to compensated. It can only be properly compensated by Indian takeover of Kashmir.

The art of negotiation in geopolitics can lead to an acceptable solution, of that I am sure.

 

[Spectre]

Forget everything else, war is fought on the basis of oil. Pakistan can sustain 2 weeks at max. 3 if civilian usage is controlled. India can outrun


Even that time too Indian navy was moving to impose a naval blockade on Karachi sea port.


That Option is not acceptible. Probably it would have been acceptible in 50s, 60s or even 70s or early 80s.

But India has sustained some losses time to time due to Pakistani misadventures to capture Kashmir by force.
If all of as sudden Pakistan decides to convert loc unto IB, then I tthink justice is not being properly to all those who died as result if this conflict. That loss has to compensated. It can only be properly compensated by Indian takeover of Kashmir.

1. Pakistan can get oil through its land routes, I am not clear if any pipeline from Iran or central Asia passes through Pakistan or not but its a possibility. Naval blockade also can easily be broken by China. India cannot challenge Chinese ships realistically if they are going to resupply Pakistan.

2 Complete take-over of Kashmir is fanciful notion at best and a dangerous one at worst. Pakistan army's raison d'etre is Kashmir. If India looks to be in position to take back Kashmir be assured stakeholders in Pakistan will use the nuclear option. How will it serve justice to thousands of Indian Forces who have sacrificed their life safe guarding India if Nukes drop on our cities?

The art of negotiation in geopolitics can lead to an acceptable solution, of that I am sure.

Agreed. I am saddened by the fact that there has been no progress in negotiation for last 70 years or so. Some hostilities run too deep and i think status-quo is best what can be achieved in the present circumstances

 

[Abingdonboy]

It was a very large country for 1000 of years with a large number of girly man who cant fight.

The same "girly men" who your superheroes in PA uniforms have been unable to win a single war against?

The IA is girly then why did 90,000+ of you army feel they needed to surrender to these lessor mortals?

 

[Nicky G]

Option 1 :

The window for settlement closed with ABV. No constituency in India for any real deal. Simply, nothing to gain for India. Only a silly Indian would believe settling Kashmir issue would solve problems with Pak. China has much bigger reasons to keep Pak up and arm them.

Even if by some miracle we settled this issue, that is not going to stop India from military and arms upgrade. That will just fuel Pak paranoia and deluded sense of parity.

Option 2:

Hasn't that been tried already in some form? Nukes change little as Kargil aptly demonstrated. However, if there is a desire in Pak, go for it. The longer you wait, the worse your chances would be. The gap will only increase.

why hasnt this exactly happened from 1947 - present?

What breaking up your country? Eh, did you blank out '71? We are in no hurry for the rest.