‘Ghar wapsi’: Politics of conversion!

[ranjeet]

of course!!!
Dont bash the seculars every now and then.

No one is after secular people just the pseudo ones..
Stop having Sanghi nightmares

 

[Levina]

But they are not endemic to Congress. Pretty much every JNUite consider Marxism-Sickularism as his religion and this view find lot of traction in Media houses too.

what is percentage of such ppl in India that you 're forced to pull a blanket statement on all the seculars??

No one is after secular people just the pseudo ones..
Stop having Sanghi nightmares

Poor Jerry gets chased by tom cats like you.

 

[Razia Sultana]

Madam, This "Ghar Vapsi" issue is not a religious but Socio-Polititical issue. As another poster @DRAY has pointed it out, it is a tit fot tat response to aggressive well funded Christian evangelism.


What you are seeing here is classical game theory in play. If any participant in a multi player scenario becomes a Hawk, other players have to either become a Hawk or get exterminated.

Evolutionary game theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The current surge in Hindu evangelism is in response to threat posed by Christian evangelist flush with foreign funds.Christian church based in USA have been a destabilizing factor as they believe in converting by hook or crook. People who condemn 'ghar vapsi' without condemning missionary activities expect Hinduism to roll over and die without a fight when faced with missionaries having practically infinite resources with which to Bribe.

Its not a socio-political issue but a petty politics. No one changes his/her religion for money or other inducements. Its a very very personal and spiritual issue. Go to any godman's ashram and there will be hundreds of white people practicing yoga or meditation. Look at Iskcon, does some one ever say why hindus are luring others, non-hindus? The British parliament celebrated diwali, did christians feel threatened? But if christian missionaries go in remote areas and work for upliftment of tribals, this becomes a conspiracy. Why can not their own religious organization go to them and work for them? They should deny these missionaries of any opportunity by serving the tribals themselves. And dont tell me hindu organizations dont have money. You should know how much money is offered at Tirupati, Shirdi, Vaishnodevi and various sects of hindus. Recently a temple in Kerala was found to be having a treasure of more than 20 billion USD. Baba Ramdev has enough money to buy an island in UK or someone donated it to him. So money is not a problem. If they were really concerned about the poverty and literacy of tribals, they will go and use that money on them. But what we hear is that Bihar CM Jitanlal Manjhi goes to a temple to donate some money and later the whole temple is purified by cleaning with ganga jal because he belongs to a dalit community.
Some people do change their faith from one to another at their own sweet will like you see the iskcon members but then there is no polarization and ill will caused by it. whereas this ghar wapasi is aimed not at making people revert to hindu faith but its a way of asserting superiority and polarizing the community on religious lines for votes. This you, I and everyone knows very well.

 

[TimeTraveller]

The recent controversy in the Indian media and parliament about mass conversions of around 55 Muslim families to Hinduism has peeled away deep layers off Indian politics. It reflects on the manner in which Indian politics is shaping up after the BJP and its close associates ascended to power. During a debate, an Indian minister, Venkaiah Naidu, tried to assuage public sentiment while alluding to India’s anti-conversion laws and some court rulings that have taken a firm view on the subject. The minister, in the same breath, however, eulogised the RSS, the BJP’s mother organisation, which is at present giving tacit support to its active associates like the Vishva Hindu Parishad (VHP) and the Bajrang Dal that are spearheading the controversial conversion campaign. The mass conversion in Agra recently saw Muslims converting to Hinduism in a proper ceremony before the electronic and print media. They had worked as rag-pickers, and it is being claimed that their forefathers had converted to Islam.

The move in Agra was sponsored by the Bajrang Dal, a militant right wing organisation that forms the youth wing of the VHP, an extremist outfit. One of the goals of these organisations has been to build the Ram Janambhoomi temple in Ayodhya, a disputed site between Hindus and Muslims. Another key objective has been to preserve and promote India’s Hindu identity and to put a check on Muslim demographic growth and conversions to Christianity. The Bajrang Dal also has a tainted history of involvement in the Gujarat riots of 2002. It had been reportedly responsible for attacking Christians in Orissa and Karnataka.

To the protagonists of this move, these conversions are nothing more than the ‘ghar wapsi’ of those who were once lured by an ‘alien faith’ and this is, at best, a reconversion on voluntary basis. This lobby strongly feels that it is an opportune time to reassert India’s Hindu identity. There has also been mass conversion of around 200 Christians in Gujarat on December 20. These conversions are a well-thought-out move by those who are now controlling the political levers to give new meaning to the national narrative in India and give more space and reasoning to achieve the ultimate goals of Hindutva. Supporters of the conversion lobby view Christianity and Islam as outsider faiths, while Jainism, Buddhism and Sikhism are treated as indigenous religions with a different threshold of tolerance and acceptance. The VHP, for instance, treats Buddhism, Jainism and Sikhism as parts of the greater Hindu fraternity, being faiths of Indian origin. This is indeed an interesting debate, which is now seeing its physical manifestation in a society that claims to have secular credentials. Buddhism sprang from India and has spread to nooks and corners of the Far East and China. However, it lost ground in its home country and like Jainism, is mostly confined to monasteries in India. Similarly, Sikhism is now mainly confined to Punjab alone.

The Bajrang Dal and the VHP draw support and sustenance from their mother organisation, the RSS, which trains its cadres through a strict regime of disciplines. It is an ideology-based organisation, which was founded some nine decades ago and has moved into the areas of charity and education in a big way. It has a very close nexus with India’s politics. During the Indian general elections, the RSS cadres, for instance, were closely involved with the selection process of BJP candidates. This had been on account of a historical connect between both organisations. During the Rath Yatra, for instance, the Rath traversed through many states before reaching Ayodhya, which resulted in the demolition of the Babri Mosque and triggered bloody communal riots. Organisational matters of the Rath in Gujarat were closely supervised by Narendra Modi himself.

The history of the spread of Islam in India makes for an interesting study. The impression is that it was on account of conquest and an element of coercion that the faith spread in India. Conquest did set the stage for a realisation regarding the discriminatory caste-ridden social order prevalent in India, which helped clusters of the indigenous population to gravitate towards the new faith. In the case of Christianity, it spread on account of economic opportunities and better educational prospects as missionary institutions took the lead in these areas. In the case of Islam, the role of sufis and dargahs cannot be glossed over whose message had a far deeper appeal than the singular phenomenon of conquest and takeover. The great Muslim saint, Hazrat Bahauddin Zakaria of Multan, for instance, preached the new faith for years under the shadows of the Prahladpuri Hindu temple. There are umpteen such examples. Muslim rulers, barring some exceptions, were benign in their religious dispensation and by and large secular in their outlook. They not only brought in new ideas and practices to Indian society but also imbibed the richness of the indigenous mosaic.

The Indian Constitution guarantees freedom of religion and its propagation. But mass conversions in the glare of the media cast a doubt on their voluntary nature. The prior announcements of venues and the numbers expected to convert give the clear impression that the element of voluntary acceptance to convert is missing.

While Narendra Modi may be pushing for development and greater connectivity with the world, he is also depending on the street and cerebral powers of fundamentalist outfits for more political space. These outfits pose a palpable threat to Indian inclusiveness. Much depends on how Modi grapples with such controversial and orchestrated moves. There are voices that are eulogising Nathuram Godse, Mahatam Gandhi’s assassin, and are seeing the Indian population through the lens of “Ramzadas” and “Haramzadas” as put by a BJP politician recently. Lukewarm disapprovals of such acts are no substitutes for outright condemnations and disassociations from them.

Published in The Express Tribune, December 30th, 2014.
‘Ghar wapsi’: Politics of conversion – The Express Tribune

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Thanks For Tagging Sir.....

 

[ranjeet]

Poor Jerry gets chased by tom cats like you.

If we don't then jerry pokes sleeping Tom for a reaction, so have to be constantly on chase to keep them quite.

 

[Solomon2]

The Indian Constitution guarantees freedom of religion and its propagation. But mass conversions in the glare of the media cast a doubt on their voluntary nature. The prior announcements of venues and the numbers expected to convert give the clear impression that the element of voluntary acceptance to convert is missing.

Hmm. When the Moonies performed mass weddings in stadiums they advertised exactly how many people would be getting hitched in advance. Unless the author has more to go on than this I don't perceive that these conversions are coerced - indeed, the presence of mass media at these events would likelier be proof that they are not.

 

[dray]

Its not a socio-political issue but a petty politics. No one changes his/her religion for money or other inducements. Its a very very personal and spiritual issue. Go to any godman's ashram and there will be hundreds of white people practicing yoga or meditation. Look at Iskcon, does some one ever say why hindus are luring others, non-hindus? The British parliament celebrated diwali, did christians feel threatened? But if christian missionaries go in remote areas and work for upliftment of tribals, this becomes a conspiracy. Why can not their own religious organization go to them and work for them? They should deny these missionaries of any opportunity by serving the tribals themselves. And dont tell me hindu organizations dont have money. You should know how much money is offered at Tirupati, Shirdi, Vaishnodevi and various sects of hindus. Recently a temple in Kerala was found to be having a treasure of more than 20 billion USD. Baba Ramdev has enough money to buy an island in UK or someone donated it to him. So money is not a problem. If they were really concerned about the poverty and literacy of tribals, they will go and use that money on them. But what we hear is that Bihar CM Jitanlal Manjhi goes to a temple to donate some money and later the whole temple is purified by cleaning with ganga jal because he belongs to a dalit community.
Some people do change their faith from one to another at their own sweet will like you see the iskcon members but then there is no polarization and ill will caused by it. whereas this ghar wapasi is aimed not at making people revert to hindu faith but its a way of asserting superiority and polarizing the community on religious lines for votes. This you, I and everyone knows very well.

For Sangh Parivaar this 'ghar wapsi' with high pitched drama is just a means to their original goal of politicizing the conversion issue.

Similarly, for the missionaries all these 'social work and helping tribals' etc. are means to their original goal of conversion.

And all of them are politicizing the religions.

 

[livingdead]

Hmm. When the Moonies performed mass weddings in stadiums they advertised exactly how many people would be getting hitched in advance. Unless the author has more to go on than this I don't perceive that these conversions are coerced - indeed, the presence of mass media at these events would likelier be proof that they are not.

they might not be coerced, but most likely doing it for money and promise of better life(which is illegal in India)

 

[dray]

they might not be coerced, but most likely doing it for money and promise of better life(which is illegal in India)

That's why they are doing it, in fact they are doing less but making lot of noise about it just to highlight the issue of conversion by missionaries by giving similar incentives. It's all politics.

 

[janon]

Can I ask one thing? How many muslims you know personally and out of them how many are taught or believe in fanaticism? I trust you wont find any or perhaps very very few. Such people are a marginalized lot, who have failed to do anything meaningful in life and our media will pick up one such guy and show to the world and say, see what is he talking. Then there will be politicians who will try to incite religious passions which is easily aroused in a negative way, to polarize their vote banks. And then there are us who will at first opportunity try to brand a whole community anti national etc.
What i want to say is that plz dont generalize on the basis of marginalized belief and plz dont call them mainstream.

I know when to generalize and when not to. Unfortunately, the belief that I mentioned is held by the general community of muslims, and if I remember, it was espoused by Mohammed himself. (If not, it has been held since his times.)

Can I ask one thing? How many muslims you know personally and out of them how many are taught or believe in fanaticism?

I did not mention any fanatical beliefs; only a certain disinformation regarding human history, which allows them to perpetuate the myth of islam being the one true, primal religion. It is a troubling question for most believers (muslim or other), why god didn't give the message to other people. To maintain faith during such moments of doubt, these are the fairytales that religions propogate. Islam pretends the narrative that I explained. And yes, common, harmless muslims also (many of them) believe that; it's not the Kalashnikov wielding jihadi types who believe that.

Other religions also have evolved certain mythical narratives to get around that vexing conundrum.

Such people are a marginalized lot, who have failed to do anything meaningful in life and our media will pick up one such guy and show to the world and say, see what is he talking.

As noted above, I was talking about a narrative that is inherent in islam in general - not some fanatic belief shared only by a few extremists. The people who hold that particular belief (most of them) do not go around shooting or beheading others. Most of them are not extremists. Even the average muslim beliefs that. (Although of course there are many who don't.) That narrative evolved along with the evolution of islam.

Then there will be politicians who will try to incite religious passions which is easily aroused in a negative way, to polarize their vote banks. And then there are us who will at first opportunity try to brand a whole community anti national etc.

I know all that, as do most members here.

What i want to say is that plz dont generalize on the basis of marginalized belief and plz dont call them mainstream.

The belief that I spoke about is very much mainstream in the muslim community. The ones who disbelieve it are the exception.

 

[ranjeet]

Hmm. When the Moonies performed mass weddings in stadiums they advertised exactly how many people would be getting hitched in advance. Unless the author has more to go on than this I don't perceive that these conversions are coerced - indeed, the presence of mass media at these events would likelier be proof that they are not.

I am glad you can see through this scam....

 

[Solomon2]

I am glad you can see through this scam....

I'm also impressed that Muslims converting to other faiths are willing to be shown on television.

 

[ranjeet]

I'm also impressed that Muslims converting to other faiths are willing to be shown on television.

India is the only place which was under Islamic rule for a significant period but fortunately never turned to 90%+ to Islam. I think western world can learn a thing or two from us Hindus.They are slowly turning towards the right wing.

 

[livingdead]

I'm also impressed that Muslims converting to other faiths are willing to be shown on television.

the people doing are hardliners, they are only too happy to be on TV. like the quran burning dude.

India is the only place which was under Islamic rule for a significant period but fortunately never turned to 90%+ to Islam. I think western world can learn a thing or two from us Hindus.They are slowly turning towards the right wing.

learn what.. how to kill muslims?

 

[ranjeet]

learn what.. how to kill muslims?

You really think crusaders would want to learn how to kill muslims from pagans?