Ghaher 313 fighter

[Kompromat]

You just nail it, i just read that information straight from the website, yet didn't think about the feasibility.

Building a jet engine from the scratch is some immense load of work, even i do respect the scientific achievements of Iran, but this cannot be done in a short amount of time.

BTW, China and Pakistan are working on the new engines for block II/III of JF-17, and it should be done in the next two years, do you think it is possible to sell it to Iran?

As far as i am concerned the WS-13A [100KN] will NOT be ready before 2017-2018 and would only be seen in the JF-17 Block III and the J-31. Then we would start to mass produce it, lets imagine that China transfers TOPT for that engine to Pakistan for JFT production, it will take us around 5-10 years to produce enough engines to power our own fleet of JFTs and J-31s. Exports won't be likely before 2020-2022.

 

[tyrant]

In fact, that's the reason of the most of arguments. If the title was "Iran shew the initial concept of a new fighter" now we are discussing to how extend the concept is mature, or not.

If others say "as an initial concept this is not perfect!" Ok, the answer is simple. This is an initial concept which is going to be more mature.

But when commanders call it as a 5th generation fighter which is ready to produce, even have been tested then they show a mockup with a RC 1/10 scale model we just welcome every body to make a joke of us.

I do not deny, there are some who have hostile attitude regards to Iran. But there are professional members here with serious questions. Do you see professional members criticizing the ballistic missile technology of Iran? No, because every body knows the steps we have had within 25 years to reach the current state.

Russia has a plan of 5th generation fighter from 1990, result is T-50 (from Sukhoi with comprehensive experience in aviation industry) and under testing yet. China's J20 is a program of more than 15 years! and suddenly a 5th generation fighter from Iran!

None of professional members says Iran can not develop a modern fighter, but with rational steps, planned program, more mature concepts, reasonable timing.

So if this jet (real size, not RC), taking off, maneuvering and landing, still that is only a vehicle that could fly in my eyes. Not an acceptable fighter technology of 21th century. Make a mature copy of mig-29 then see how I back that project.

Don't be embarrasses by the media coverage. Be happy that you have an R&D program for 5th generation aircraft.
F35 is not in the production line yet, so no one expect you to have your own. The most important part is the engine though.
Update us of your indigenous engine development.
Being ambitious is very important!

 

[gambit]

S00R3NA:

Iranian universities are working on a stealth coating materiel for fighters. I have not see this BBC interview but again as I said, there is nothing that wrong with this project in order for it to be called "fake", only bunch of fanboy mods here who think with jealousy rather than rational reasoning.

We have s saying in German, It does not sound as good when said in English but here it goes anyway.

"Those who want to find fault in something will go through the most ridiculous lengths to do so, even if it makes them look like fools"

In other worlds, these people will try and fault Iran achievement regardless so why do you guys want to prove something to these people when they pretend to be sleep?

The problem is that we, or at least some of us who have aviation experience, are not going through those ridiculous lengths. We cast our doubts based upon personal experience, not from reading someone else's.

 

[Gestapo]

Ir-Tab:

I have not seen any Iranian official refer to this as an 5th generation fighter plane. It seems you are here to represent Iranian officials?
The only joke here is your own reasoning, don't put your own weaknesses on Iranian officials.
Iranian officials stated from the beginning the video was from a unmanned small version of this.

One with rotor and one with small jet engine. They are showing how they taken steps be steps to get to the position where they made a mock-up.
Now I am shocked you made this comment.
"But when commanders call it as a 5th generation fighter which is ready to produce"

You live in Iran and yet you cannot even read Farsi? The defence minster did not claim it's ready for mass production, he said it is undergoing test and when tests are done it will go into production.

 

[tyrant]

%%%%
Most people here are just critics.
Remember when Turkey said "Turkey to develop AC" or "Turkey to develop ICBM::
Every Indian and Pakistani started commenting: First make an MRBM, blah blah blah
These are just critics. Don't take it personal.

 

[gambit]

^ Maximum speed looks to be "500"..? can anyone read it?



Weapons are supposed to be in the wings since it is stealth

Not in wings but fuselage.

 

[kollang]

wow!how much Jealous here!hahaha

as mashregh news claimed the fighter's length is about 16 m and it probably weigh 12 to 14 tons and again "probably" the fully loaded fighter weigh 20 tons.plus it can carry 6 R-73 AtoA missiles or two 2000 pounds bombs at the main internal space and probably few short-range AtoA missiles in siding internal space.thats just great.

WARNING:the engine cant be RD-33.

 

[twilight]

My friend told me that , there was a program on BBC Persian analyzing the Qaher 313 last night . The expert who had been invited confirmed that the plane was real and every part of it was designed by using both Russian and American models however the main design was confirmed to be Iranian .

According to him ( the expert ), Iran designed it small in order to be Stealth , He also added that Iran didn't have the technology of producing stealth body and that was the main reason the size was that small .

I haven't seen the program myself , Has any other Iranian watched it ?

**** ,,, BBC Persian is Britannia anti IRI propaganda media ... most of those exprets they invite are bias toward iran ...

 

[Gestapo]

Gambit:

As I said, there are clearly changed that needs to be done to this plane. Iranian users in other forum were the ones who were pointing out those changes to me. I have no real experience in aerospace but funny enough I come from a family where everyone has qualification in engineering.
Anyway, I have a little bit of knowledge, that is why I am saying, there is no real problem with this design in order for it to be a fake propaganda as some users claimed. It's is a mock-up, that's for sure, but you, as an experienced person; do you see any fundamental flaw in the design?

Forget the engine for now because we don't know anything about it.

 

[tyrant]

Ir-Tab:

I have not seen any Iranian official refer to this as an 5th generation fighter plane. It seems you are here to represent Iranian officials?
The only joke here is your own reasoning, don't put your own weaknesses on Iranian officials.
Iranian officials stated from the beginning the video was from a unmanned small version of this.

One with rotor and one with small jet engine. They are showing how they taken steps be steps to get to the position where they made a mock-up.
Now I am shocked you made this comment.
"But when commanders call it as a 5th generation fighter which is ready to produce"

You live in Iran and yet you cannot even read Farsi? The defence minster did not claim it's ready for mass production, he said it is undergoing test and when tests are done it will go into production.

Citation needed for the bold part.

I remember Iranian defense minister said the production is fast and easy for us. Soon we will see them in Iranian sky.

 

[Gestapo]

Tyrant:

I was going to post pictures to prove that part but I need 15 posts to do that.

Anyway, The person in charge of the project said it will be produced once it finished it's testing. this plane will still need to undergo testing.
This "near future" comment really depends on the state of the real fighter jet and how much testing has been done on it.
I think more realistic time frame would be, it will be ready by lets say 2015?

This is a jet fighter, not a boat or a gun. It will need serious testing, new radars, testing different equipment on it and so on.

Another thing to add, how do we know the purpose of this one?
Maybe they will produce a few for pilots to get used to it and the proper "ready for combat" one will be produced later.

We just can't make real assumption s we simply do not know a lot about this project.

 

[Ir.Tab.]

Being ambitious is very important!

The question is "Being ambitious!" or "Being emotional!"

The first step of every advancement is understanding the current reality, precisely
Accepting it, bravely
Moving forward, consciously

Our country has limited sources to risk.

 

[kollang]

yes hopefully today an wind tunnel with the speed of 8 mach got unveiled.it may help so much.

 

[tyrant]

The question is "Being ambitious!" or "Being emotional!"

The first step of every advancement is understanding the current reality, precisely
Accepting it, bravely
Moving forward, consciously

Our country has limited sources to risk.

It not clear how much the resources are. If a country has given Hizbollah 5000 missiles (as Israel said), I am sure has 5 B $ to spend only in aviation R&D.

 

[Serpentine]

In fact, that's the reason of the most of arguments. If the title was "Iran shew the initial concept of a new fighter" now we are discussing to how extend the concept is mature, or not.

If others say "as an initial concept this is not perfect!" Ok, the answer is simple. This is an initial concept which is going to be more mature.

But when commanders call it as a 5th generation fighter which is ready to produce, even have been tested then they show a mockup with a RC 1/10 scale model we just welcome every body to make a joke of us.

Also, we have access to one of the best stealth materials in the world, the RQ-170 body.This is not something every random country posses in the world. So even coming close to that material is a huge step.As you know, my major is Materials Science and I know what capabilities and resources we have for building a stealth radar-evading material.

I do not deny, there are some who have hostile attitude regards to Iran. But there are professional members here with serious questions. Do you see professional members criticizing the ballistic missile technology of Iran? No, because every body knows the steps we have had within 25 years to reach the current state.

Russia has a plan of 5th generation fighter from 1990, result is T-50 (from Sukhoi with comprehensive experience in aviation industry) and under testing yet. China's J20 is a program of more than 15 years! and suddenly a 5th generation fighter from Iran!

None of professional members says Iran can not develop a modern fighter, but with rational steps, planned program, more mature concepts, reasonable timing.

So if this jet (real size, not RC), taking off, maneuvering and landing, still that is only a vehicle that could fly in my eyes. Not an acceptable fighter technology of 21th century. Make a mature copy of mig-29 then see how I back that project.

I agree that they should have called it an initial concept that is open for numerous changes and enhances.
Those 'experts' who say its air intakes are small,well,how do they know? Just visually? There are some modelling software for aviation industries that spend hours and hours of heavy processing for a very simple design. I mean, those who have designed it, don't they actually know about how big the air intakes should be?but forum members here know it well? To be honest, it's not acceptable here.We can NOT conclude unless we say proper videos of tests.I respect everyone's opinion about it who raise questions, but I can not accept that any conclusion with some images of a possible early concept.
For example, look at these pics of F-105 fighter:

The air intakes in this jet are also small, but can we say : 'Look, it can not even take off, let alone maneuvering!' ?

Besides, no official has ever said it's a 5th generation, or I haven't heard it from anyone.I agree they may exaggerate in some cases, but saying that this plane has 'stealth features' doesn't mean it's a 5th generation.And of course it isn't.


And as for last part, what do you mean it's a 'vehicle that can only fly' or it doesn't belong to 21st century? How can you conclude that?Only because Iran has not much of experience in making jets? If this plane can do what officials say,even if it joins air force 8 years later, still it's very good.What is a 21st century jet supposed to do?

Don't forget, unlike countries who take those 'rational steps', we can not import one single piece of this jet from anywhere.We have to build them in home and for country that is under threat of war with some aging air force, doing and following what others doesn't seem logical.We have to risk, do extraordinary things, even if they are not tested before, for being able to catch up with countries who are considered as enemies or at least create a deterrence.

Don't get me wrong, I'm in no way saying that this jet is 'super advanced' or that it can definitively kill all modern aircraft!What I'm saying is, if this is a concept and early design, then it has much potential for further improvements.Iran has been working on developing a domestic jet fighter since 20 years ago.The problem with our military industries is that they don't show everything to media and present every detail.I agree, we suck in it and a huge change is needed in this regard.