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George Galloway: 'I don't debate with Israelis'

Oh, an opportunity to discuss Talmud! I'll take just one bite, then we go back to topic:

Baba Kamma 37b. If an ox of an Israelite gores an ox of a Canaanite there is no liability; but if an ox of a Canaanite gores an ox of an Israelite...the payment is to be in full.
Baba Kamma mostly discusses complicated and fine distinctions of legal liability and oxen are used as examples many times.

Page 37b mentions oxen, but it's discussion between rabbis about oxen digging pits: link. The parts about liability in case an ox gores some thing, some animal, or some person are further on. (Discussion about liability includes whether or not the ox is known to be vicious and how to define such, matters of intent, and who is culpable - the owner of the animal or the human who may have provoked it.)

Perhaps instead of page "37b" page "73d" was meant? In this case the topic of discussion is liability for damage incidentally caused to someone else's land and it does indeed mention the ox and goring:

The Rabbis taught: Employees who came to demand their wages from their employer, and were gored by his ox or bitten by his dog, to death, he is free. Anonymous teachers, however, hold that employees have the right to demand their wages from their employer (and therefore he is guilty). How is the case? If the employer usually comes to town, what reason have the anonymous teachers for their assertion? If, on the other hand, he can be found only in the house, what is the reason of the first Tana? It is in a case where he is not certain, and the employee when knocking on the door or gate is told "In"; one holds that "in" means "come in" (and therefore they had the right to enter), and the other one holds that "in" means "stay where you are (and I will come out to you)." There is a support to the latter construction of "in" from the following Boraitha: "An employee that entered to demand his wages from his employer, and he was gored by his ox or was bitten by his dog, he is not guilty although he entered with permission." Why so? We must say that it means that when knocking on the door or gate he was told "in," and he meant that he had permission to enter, but in reality "in" meant only "stay where you are (and I will come out to you)."

*** 8:30pm Addition: the case of two oxen goring each other is page 73e - page 74:

MISHNA IX.: Two non-vicious oxen that wounded each other: the one who is hurt the most is to be paid one-half of the amount of the value of difference of the injuries. If both are vicious the full amount of difference of the injuries is to be paid. If one is non-vicious and the other vicious: if the vicious one injured the non-vicious more than he himself was injured he pays the full amount of the difference, if the reverse is the case only one-half is paid. So also if two men wound each other, the one who hurt the most must pay the full amount of the difference.

A man who hurt a vicious ox and was also hurt by the ox, or when the reverse was the case, the full amount of difference is to be paid. If the case was with a non-vicious ox the man pays the full amount and the ox pays the half. R. Aqiba, however, says: Even if the ox was non-vicious, the full amount is to be paid.

GEMARA: The rabbis taught: It is written [Ex. xxi. 31]: "According to this judgment shall be done unto him." That means that as the judgment when two oxen gore each other, so also shall it be when an ox gores a man. As in the former case a non-vicious ox pays one-half and a vicious one the full amount; the same is the case if it gored a human being. R. Aqiba, however, says: "According to this judgment" means that the judgment just mentioned applies to man, but not to the preceding case. Shall we assume that it must be paid from the best estates? Therefore it is written [ibid., ibid.]: "Shall be done unto him," which means that he pays only from the body of the ox, but not from the best estates. ***
Discussion continues in Chapter IV: link

No, there is no distinction between a Jew and non-Jew here but fine and practical distinctions about who is responsible for what and under what circumstances.

I think you can toss all these vilifying quotes out the window now.
 
Actually Islamic Extremism is same as Nazi ideology.

Both said they are superior and others are damned.
Both got huge support from people.
Both wanted themselves to rule the world.

And list goes on. To understand the evil, one has to know more about evil.
 
Actually Islamic Extremism is same as Nazi ideology.

Both said they are superior and others are damned.
Both got huge support from people.
Both wanted themselves to rule the world.

And list goes on. To understand the evil, one has to know more about evil.

Broad sweep that doesnt fit in..
 
if that's racist, then how would you explain western countries walking out from UN council when the President of a country is addressing!?
I'm talking about Iran.
Because the present President of Iran is, sorry to say, an idiot. Diplomats can utilize their time doing better things than listen to the rants of a delusional mind.
 
Broad sweep that doesnt fit in..

Got a question for ya. I never understood this mentality, but why is Pakistan - as a nation and as a people - so anti-semitic? This, when Pakistanis share similar history as that of India. This, when there is no history of anti-semitism in the sub-continent. And yes, dont tell me because it is a Muslim issue, there are numerous Muslim countries which have good relations with Israel and its citizens.
@RiazHaq: Dude, you ought to invest more thinking into your musings. Apparently that is sorely wanting. Hitler's popularity in India is NOT because of anti-semitism, far from it!! It has to do with the transformation Hitler brought about in post-WWI Germany. Period. His personal anti-semitic views are irrelevant to Indians.
 
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Got a question for ya. I never understood this mentality, but why is Pakistan - as a nation and as a people - so anti-semitic? This, when Pakistanis share similar history as that of India. This, when there is no history of anti-semitism in the sub-continent. And yes, dont tell me because it is a Muslim issue, there are numerous Muslim countries which have good relations with Israel and its citizens.

Historically, racial anti-semitism was mostly a European phenomenon.

For most other regions in the world, there was no history of anti-semitism. Much of the modern anti-semitism is in fact a European import, based on materials such as the Protocols of Zion.
 
Historically, racial anti-semitism was mostly a European phenomenon.

For most other regions in the world, there was no history of anti-semitism. Much of the modern anti-semitism is in fact a European import, based on materials such as the Protocols of Zion.

Maybe to some extent. However, Consider this. India was under the British, French & Portuguese rule. Europeans interfered in China and many south east Asian nations. Why wasnt anti-semitism "imported" there? You dont find anti-semitism in India. You dont find anti-semitism in China, Japan, South East Asian nations etc. But Pakistan seems to be the outlier here. Neither so they share any Arab conflict with the Israelis nor do they share any European history of anti-semitism. One wonders why.
 
Maybe to some extent. However, Consider this. India was under the British, French & Portuguese rule. Europeans interfered in China and many south east Asian nations. Why wasnt anti-semitism "imported" there? You dont find anti-semitism in India. You dont find anti-semitism in China, Japan, South East Asian nations etc. But Pakistan seems to be the outlier here. Neither so they share any Arab conflict with the Israelis nor do they share any European history of anti-semitism. One wonders why.

Demand and supply maybe?

Anti-semitism was strongest in Europe and was the most developed there, but today there is not much left apart from a handful of Neo-Nazi groups.

Nowadays it seems that the Middle East is the new hotspot for anti-semitism, from the polls anyway. And the Middle East has a lot of cultural influence on many Asian countries, though not all.

Europe went through the full phase and now appear to have grown out of it. Other countries that have a hostile outlook towards Israel may find such ideologies appealing, thus the resurgence.

(Just my opinion of course.)
 
Maybe to some extent. However, Consider this. India was under the British, French & Portuguese rule. Europeans interfered in China and many south east Asian nations. Why wasnt anti-semitism "imported" there? You dont find anti-semitism in India. You dont find anti-semitism in China, Japan, South East Asian nations etc. But Pakistan seems to be the outlier here. Neither so they share any Arab conflict with the Israelis nor do they share any European history of anti-semitism. One wonders why.


I don't know how far this could be called the truth but the Arab Pakistan relations which have over the time proved to be too deep may have passed on the anti Israel thing ala Palestine. Radical leaders have stated in Pakistan that Palestine is as big as kashmir for them. The prioritizing is well known in case of the two.
 
That is an entirely different issue. Leader of a nation is more or less directly involved in the decision making process of a state. If you have any beef with a country , it is quite reasonable to take it up with its head rather than on its citizens. Here you have a drunk galloway walking out on the grounds that his adversary is a mere 3rd year Israeli STUDENT.

How in god's green earth did you think it possible to make such a wild comparison ?!?!

You are an idiot.

You have no proof to back your accusations.
 
Demand and supply maybe?
Or maybe a quest for an identity and acceptance, unfortunately in this case, by finding a common enemy to hate?
Anti-semitism was strongest in Europe and was the most developed there, but today there is not much left apart from a handful of Neo-Nazi groups.
Why the "Juice"? Why has this one race/ethnicity/religion incited so much hatred that led to an attempt at their extermination, resulting in the deaths of millions? And now the "Baton" has passed onto some Middle East countries who proudly display it!!
Nowadays it seems that the Middle East is the new hospot for anti-semitism, from the polls anyway. And the Middle East has a lot of cultural influence on many Asian countries, though not all.

Europe went through the full phase and now appear to have grown out of it. Other countries that have a hostile outlook towards Israel may find such ideologies appealing, thus the resurgence.

(Just my opinion of course.)
What kind of cultural influence are you talking about? India, China, Japan, Indonesia, Malaysia etc absorbed many scientific, cultural and religious influences from pre and post-Islamic middle east. But nasty anti-semitism never reared its head in these cultures. Then why Pakistan? No relation what-so-ever, yet such rampant anti-semitism in a society which only a few hundred years ago were Pagans and share strong cultural ties with their "Pagan" brethren across the border.
 
Why the "Juice"? Why has this one race/ethnicity/religion incited so much hatred that led to an attempt at their extermination, resulting in the deaths of millions? And now the "Baton" has passed onto some Middle East countries who proudly display it!!

I have a theory actually. :woot:

Firstly, the other Abrahamic religions (specifically Christianity/Islam) used to frown upon "usury", which is the lending of money for profit. Islam still frowns upon it today. So the Jewish immigrants filled the spot of being "money lenders" which we all know is a highly profitable business. Thus they became very rich.

Secondly, they are a very tightly-knit community. When they do business, they will often do it with fellow Jews or even their own family members. This leads to the money being "cycled" through their own community multiple times. They earn money from outside communities, and cycle it within their own community. (Incidentally, this is also a reason why Asian American communities do so well).

Thirdly, as immigrants to Europe, much of the farming land was already "taken" (literally or not) by the locals, who did not appreciate foreigners coming to take their land. This led to the Jews focusing more on education and academics as opposed to becoming farmers. Combined with their considerable wealth, this took them even further above the average.

So you can see why the Jews were so quickly demonized in Europe, and were subject to pogrom after pogrom. People felt cheated that such a small group could hold so much power and influence. People in general tend to hate the "elites" of society, especially when times are bad, but when it combined with racism and religious differences (Jews) it became much more lethal.

(This is just my theory).
 

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