George Galloway: 'I don't debate with Israelis'

[Shahin Vatani]

I know that Chomsky is a dumb propagandist.


I did not notice ur question. If u give a link i'll answer.

It was in the thread where you claimed Ancient Persia is not Iranian. It was also not a question, I proved you wrong and you stopped commenting, simple.

I know that Chomsky is a dumb propagandist.

Oh really!? Most of the world knows him as a great intellectual and the most cited scholar who is still living. Yet I guess you know better.

 

[Mitro]

What about other example i mention about please help us understand that part also we will greatly appreciate.

Oh, an opportunity to discuss Talmud! I'll take just one bite, then we go back to topic:

Baba Kamma mostly discusses complicated and fine distinctions of legal liability and oxen are used as examples many times.

Page 37b mentions oxen, but it's discussion between rabbis about oxen digging pits: link. The parts about liability in case an ox gores some thing, some animal, or some person are further on. (Discussion about liability includes whether or not the ox is known to be vicious and how to define such, matters of intent, and who is culpable - the owner of the animal or the human who may have provoked it.)

Perhaps instead of page "37b" page "73d" was meant? In this case the topic of discussion is liability for damage incidentally caused to someone else's land and it does indeed mention the ox and goring:

The Rabbis taught: Employees who came to demand their wages from their employer, and were gored by his ox or bitten by his dog, to death, he is free. Anonymous teachers, however, hold that employees have the right to demand their wages from their employer (and therefore he is guilty). How is the case? If the employer usually comes to town, what reason have the anonymous teachers for their assertion? If, on the other hand, he can be found only in the house, what is the reason of the first Tana? It is in a case where he is not certain, and the employee when knocking on the door or gate is told "In"; one holds that "in" means "come in" (and therefore they had the right to enter), and the other one holds that "in" means "stay where you are (and I will come out to you)." There is a support to the latter construction of "in" from the following Boraitha: "An employee that entered to demand his wages from his employer, and he was gored by his ox or was bitten by his dog, he is not guilty although he entered with permission." Why so? We must say that it means that when knocking on the door or gate he was told "in," and he meant that he had permission to enter, but in reality "in" meant only "stay where you are (and I will come out to you)."

*** 8:30pm Addition: the case of two oxen goring each other is page 73e - page 74:

MISHNA IX.: Two non-vicious oxen that wounded each other: the one who is hurt the most is to be paid one-half of the amount of the value of difference of the injuries. If both are vicious the full amount of difference of the injuries is to be paid. If one is non-vicious and the other vicious: if the vicious one injured the non-vicious more than he himself was injured he pays the full amount of the difference, if the reverse is the case only one-half is paid. So also if two men wound each other, the one who hurt the most must pay the full amount of the difference.

A man who hurt a vicious ox and was also hurt by the ox, or when the reverse was the case, the full amount of difference is to be paid. If the case was with a non-vicious ox the man pays the full amount and the ox pays the half. R. Aqiba, however, says: Even if the ox was non-vicious, the full amount is to be paid.

GEMARA: The rabbis taught: It is written [Ex. xxi. 31]: "According to this judgment shall be done unto him." That means that as the judgment when two oxen gore each other, so also shall it be when an ox gores a man. As in the former case a non-vicious ox pays one-half and a vicious one the full amount; the same is the case if it gored a human being. R. Aqiba, however, says: "According to this judgment" means that the judgment just mentioned applies to man, but not to the preceding case. Shall we assume that it must be paid from the best estates? Therefore it is written [ibid., ibid.]: "Shall be done unto him," which means that he pays only from the body of the ox, but not from the best estates. *** Discussion continues in Chapter IV: link

No, there is no distinction between a Jew and non-Jew here but fine and practical distinctions about who is responsible for what and under what circumstances.

I think you can toss all these vilifying quotes out the window now.

I don't know its NAZI website or not but i know what ever i mention its from talmud with reference.
i personally don't hate anybody we are all created by one god and respect all human being.if GAlloway wants to avoid talking to Israelite then its his choice and the organiser did not mention that the debut is with a Israelite.

Again fake crap from Nazi websites.

Talmud

As for Galloway, he is a pathological liar:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNP445p0o4k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yR3QALJlMx4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuovN0T2EhQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhRSH2zAIpk

 

[King Solomon]

I agree, you can find hypocrisy and double standards.but that doesn't change the right and wrong, killing Sudan's is wrong as well as killing Palestinians is wrong. Muslims killing Muslims is not an excuse for Israel to kill Muslims. However, I don't think you would like me to show how many the west killed from each others not to mention the massacres they committed in many other countries.

For a moment let's assume that the narrative of Muslims that Palestinians are brutally oppressed is correct. (it is not, but that would be a long debate).

You said killing a Sudanese is wrong as much as killing Palestinians.

However, it appears, for Muslims, a Palestinian life is far more important than a Sudanese. Just look at the attention this Israel-palestine issue attracts compared to other instances of Muslims being killed around the world. There is no boycott, flotillas, BDS, humanitarian missions when it comes to Sudan. Ask any Muslim about Sudan, many wouldn't even know so many Muslims are being killed. But ask about Israel, many would have strong opinion against Israel.

How many Muslims know that about 1000 Palestinian Syrians were killed by Assad? How many Muslims know palestinians are not given any citizenship by any Arab country except Jordan? Lebanon doesn't allow them land ownership. It appears, Palestinians are only important when it is against Israel. This, if I may say, seems to be hypocrisy.

Why are you generalizing? Not all Pakistanis are like that, I could have been harsh in some cases with few, but everyone has a different view and he is entitled to it. Yes, there is racism is Arab countries but there is racism everywhere as well, people have a tendency to generalize bad things happen to them, for instance, a Pakistani was robbed by a Saudi, he would forget all the good hings happened to him and latch this one.

Agreed, my point was that what is real may not be ideal. Islam doesn't condone racism but doesn't mean that racism isn't present among muslims (and everyone).

Jordanians didn't over-retaliate at all and they didn't target civilians, the king tried all ways to avoid confrontation but he was forced to it. The situation between Israel and Jordan are different, Jordan didn't steal others land, it didn't displaced, killed and tortured their inhabitants, it confronted lawless militias and imposed law and order in it's own country, while Palestinians are fighting to get their lands and rights back which were stolen by invaders who don't belong to this land.

Prophet Muhammad was honest and acknowledged the special relationship of the Jewish people with God and the land He gave them. Check 5:20 and 5:21 in Quran.

I would like you to put yourself in Kuwaitis shoes, what would you have done? they were greatly hurt and considered it treason. Anyway, it's so over now.

I would definitely not take PA's opinion to be the representative of the whole Palestinian diaspora in Kuwait. In a democratic society, people do have the right to have different opinions to the state.

It's somewhat similar to US's persecution of Japanese citizens during WWII, a thing which they regret. But what's done is done and good to know things are good again.

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

For a moment let's assume that the narrative of Muslims that Palestinians are brutally oppressed is correct. (it is not, but that would be a long debate).

You said killing a Sudanese is wrong as much as killing Palestinians.

However, it appears, for Muslims, a Palestinian life is far more important than a Sudanese. Just look at the attention this Israel-palestine issue attracts compared to other instances of Muslims being killed around the world. There is no boycott, flotillas, BDS, humanitarian missions when it comes to Sudan. Ask any Muslim about Sudan, many wouldn't even know so many Muslims are being killed. But ask about Israel, many would have strong opinion against Israel.

Sudanese killing Sudanese is an internal war, I agree that it didn't get enough attention. Although the oppressors were Arab Sudanese, it was indeed a shame. However, Palestinians and Israelis conflict is a war between the rightful owners of the land and invaders. Again, Arabs killing Arabs is not an excuse for Israelis to kill less or more. However, I will give you this, Israelis are far more human than the Syrian, former Libyan and Sudanese regimes.

How many Muslims know that about 1000 Palestinian Syrians were killed by Assad? How many Muslims know palestinians are not given any citizenship by any Arab country except Jordan? Lebanon doesn't allow them land ownership. It appears, Palestinians are only important when it is against Israel. This, if I may say, seems to be hypocrisy.

They know about it but it's an internal war and everyone is getting killed, and the Syrian regime is already being dealt with. Arabs shouldn't give citizenships to Palestinians, as this is exactly what Israel wants, to get rid of the Palestinians and settle them in neighboring countries, and yet, forget about their country as time passes. They should return to their own country and homes.

Agreed, my point was that what is real may not be ideal. Islam doesn't condone racism but doesn't mean that racism isn't present among muslims (and everyone).



Prophet Muhammad was honest and acknowledged the special relationship of the Jewish people with God and the land He gave them. Check 5:20 and 5:21 in Quran.



I would definitely not take PA's opinion to be the representative of the whole Palestinian diaspora in Kuwait. In a democratic society, people do have the right to have different opinions to the state.

It's similar to US's expulsion of Japanese citizens during WWII, a thing which they regret. But what's done is done and good to know things are good again.

Actually, I won't be exaggerating (I know this) if I say the vast majority of Palestinians and Jordanians as well as their governments took Iraqi side. Arabs are sentimental by nature and Saddam knew very well how to play with their emotions.

 

[King Solomon]

Sudanese killing Sudanese is an internal war, I agree that it didn't get enough attention. Although the oppressors were Arab Sudanese, it was indeed a shame. However, Palestinians and Israelis conflict is a war between the rightful owners of the land and invaders. Again, Arabs killing Arabs is not an excuse for Israelis to kill less or more. However, I will give you this, Israelis are far more human than the Syrian, former Libyan and Sudanese regimes.


They know about it but it's an internal war and everyone is getting killed, and the Syrian regime is already being dealt with. Arabs shouldn't give citizenships to Palestinians, as this is exactly what Israel wants, to get rid of the Palestinians and settle them in neighboring countries, and yet, forget about their country as time passes. They should return to their own country and homes.


Actually, I won't be exaggerating (I know this) if I say the vast majority of Palestinians and Jordanians as well as their governments took Iraqi side. Arabs are sentimental by nature and Saddam knew very well how to play with their emotions.

Blackeagle, I notice, although I am pro Israel and you are anti Israel, both you and I want welfare of palestinians, arabs and jews living in Israel and middle east. I think the refugees should be given citizenships after living for so many years in their host countries, as all countries do and it is an innate right as identified by UNRWA. I consider it inhumane to not give citizenships to refugees and their descendants after they have lived for 60+ years. I also don't think the zero-sum approach of "this is exactly what israel wants" would be wise to pursue, as a solution needs to be agreed by both parties ie. must be exactly what both israel and arabs want.

Differences will persist, but let's agree to disagree. Cheers.

 

[Pakistanisage]

Note that the Israeli general's son remains an Israeli active in politics whereas the only route open for the Hamas Chief's son to salve his conscience was conversion, espionage, and exile.

Is there a Pakistani here who can claim to have publicly championed Israel in Pakistan itself?

Yes, the feeling flashing across a Pakistani's gut right now is cowardice. Although you may cover that with anger directed towards me keep in mind that I ask myself if I were in your shoes I don't know if I'd behave any better...

And yet...one article of faith I've absorbed from my skimpy Talmud studies is that there is the opportunity for individual adherents of all three Abrahamic religions to make choices for good or evil regardless of circumstances.

As one biographer wrote of Goethe: "His virtues were his own; his vices were those of his time and country" - and so it is for us. If you can't openly be an pro-Israel, anti-Galloway iconoclast there is going to be another route available for you, though if it doesn't appear you may have to seek it out.

Not only there are few Pakistanis, there are very few HUMAN BEINGS that champion the CRIMES of Israel.

So let me ask you a question.

How Shameless are you that you exist at the support of US and few tiny Islands controlled by the US ( and of course US Colony called Canada ) ?

If I were you, I would hide my face.

Few people on this planet stand by your Criminal enterprise of Occupying Pakestinian Lands.

Have you NO SHAME, Sir ?

Are you totally devoid of Human Dignity ?

 

[KRAIT]

Message conveyed.

 

[Pakistanisage]

A person living in a country which has killed thousands of innocent men, women and children, his soldiers in his own country, is talking of Shame and Dignity.

Oh the irony.

BTW if I am not wrong, Palestinians didn't suffer what Bengalis, Shias, Hazaras, Ahmedis suffered by their Muslim brothers in the nation, by the nation created for Muslims.

P.S. ALWAYS SPEAK THE TRUTH, NO MATTER WHAT.

The SHAMELESS TROLL is back to shamelessly TROLL AND SPEAK OFF TOPIC.

Have you no shame "DRAMA QUEEN" ?

MUST YOU SHAMELESSLY TROLL AND THEN START SQUEELING LIKE A LITTLE GIRL WHEN CALLED FOR YOUR TROLLING.

OR MAYBE YOU ARE A LITTLE GIRL IN REALITY, ARE YOU MISS DRAMA QUEEN ?

WHY DON'T YOU WORRY ABOUT YOUR OWN PATHETIC COUNTRY WHERE A GIRL GET'S RAPED EVERY 20 SECONDS

IF YOU ARE A LITTLE GIRL , IT MUST BE PURE HELL LIVING IN DELHI WHICH IS THE RAPE CAPITAL OF THE WORLD.

I CAN TOTALLY SEE WHY YOU ARE SUCH AN ANGRY LITTLE GIRL

 

[KRAIT]

The SHAMELESS TROLL is back to shamelessly TROLL AND SPEAK OFF TOPIC.Have you no shame "DRAMA QUEEN"MUST YOU SHAMELESSLY TROLL AND THEN START SQUEELING LIKE A LITTLE GIRL WHEN CALLED FOR YOUR TROLLING.OR MAYBE YOU ARE A LITTLE GIRL, DRAMA QUEEN ?

Sorry buddy. Like I edited my post. Your signature made me say all these things. Lets admit both you and me are as hypocrites as most of the posters.

I think I have offended you deeply. Editing my post.

Carry on with your war of words.

 

[xyxmt]

you are too stupid and blind not to see that . Google that . You will find Indians against Israel and no one gives shyt about your POV .

Well Shyte face if you didnt care about my point of view you would work you dark skinny fingers to answer me

 

[sarthak]

It's interesting to see that Indians are the most ardent supporters of Israel on this forum. But they also admire Hitler and Nazis. Is this schizophrenia?

Nazi memorabilia, including Adolf Hitler's biography Mein Kampf, are growing in popularity in India, according to the BBC. The marketing chief of Crossword, a national chain of book stores in India, told the BBC that Mein Kampf has "been a consistent bestseller for us."

At Mumbai bookstores located in upscale neighborhoods, the Hitler book sales have risen sharply from 40-50 copies a year to several hundred copies annually in each store. It's not just the autobiography - books on the Nazi leader, T-shirts, bags, bandanas and key-rings are also in demand. A shop in Pune, called Teens, says it sells nearly 100 T-shirts a month with Hitler's image on them.

A Bollywood film "Dear Friend Hitler" is due to be released at the end of this year, according to news reports. The movie director Rakesh Ranjan Kumar says his film "shows Hitler's love for India and how he indirectly contributed to Indian independence".

Hindu nationalists in India have a long history of admiration for the Nazi leader, including his "Final Solution". In his book "We" (1939), Madhav Sadashiv Golwalkar, the leader of the Hindu Nationalist RSS (Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh) wrote, "To keep up the purity of the Race and its culture, Germany shocked the world by her purging the country of the Semitic races -- the Jews. Race pride at its highest has been manifested here. Germany has also shown how well-nigh impossible it is for races and cultures, having differences going to the root, to be assimilated into one united whole, a good lesson for us in Hindusthan to learn and profit by." (We, p.35/p.43)

There may have been mutual admiration between the upper caste Hindu Nationalists and the Nazis since the 1940s. After all, the Nazis adopted the Swastika, a symbol commonly used by Brahmans in India, because it was understood as an Aryan symbol indicating racial purity and superiority. The Nazis knew that the early Aryans of India were white invaders.

On the surface, it appears that Indians are schizophrenic. It is hard to reconcile the right-wing Hindus' growing admiration for the Nazis with their new-found love of Israel. But there is evidence to suggest that both trends are real. Along with rising sales of the Nazi merchandise, there have also been calls in India to "do Gaza" in Pakistan, and the Indian police discovered a conspiracy by a serving Indian Army officer to set up a radical Hindu government in exile in Israel. Both of these trends seem to be driven mainly by the rising hatred of minorities, particularly Muslims, in India.

Haq's Musings: Hindu Nationalists Admire Nazis and Israel in India?

Indians don't admire Hitler, it's just we have no hate for him because caused no harm to us. In fact , the little admiration you say we have for him solely rests on the fact that he fought Britain , a country that colonized both India and Pakistan . Your first point is so irrelevant and stupid. Just because "mein kampf" is a bestseller in India doesn't show that Indians have any love for Hitler. It just shows we like to read and know more about history and the people that changed the world. This book is about one of the most important people in history. It gives you an idea of his state of mind , why he thought what he though , etc . Reasons for is hate of Jews and his ideas on race and purity might be really sick and disgusting , but extremely interesting to read nonetheless.

 

[anonymus]

The SHAMELESS TROLL is back to shamelessly TROLL AND SPEAK OFF TOPIC.

Have you no shame "DRAMA QUEEN" ?

MUST YOU SHAMELESSLY TROLL AND THEN START SQUEELING LIKE A LITTLE GIRL WHEN CALLED FOR YOUR TROLLING.

OR MAYBE YOU ARE A LITTLE GIRL IN REALITY, ARE YOU MISS DRAMA QUEEN ?

WHY DON'T YOU WORRY ABOUT YOUR OWN PATHETIC COUNTRY WHERE A GIRL GET'S RAPED EVERY 20 SECONDS

IF YOU ARE A LITTLE GIRL , IT MUST BE PURE HELL LIVING IN DELHI WHICH IS THE RAPE CAPITAL OF THE WORLD.

I CAN TOTALLY SEE WHY YOU ARE SUCH AN ANGRY LITTLE GIRL

Typing in "BOLD and CAPITALS" would not mask your stupidity.

 

[Solomon2]

Not only there are few Pakistanis, there are very few HUMAN BEINGS that champion the CRIMES of Israel.

I'm not championing crimes. I'm championing against those who deliberately misinform others of Israeli acts they call crimes in defiance of fact and context.

How Shameless are you that you exist at the support of US and few tiny Islands controlled by the US ( and of course US Colony called Canada ) ?

Let's see: in one sentence you've insulted me, my parents, Canada and (I think you meant) Israel. No supporting evidence in there to back it up, though: you're running on empty here, kid.

 

[Solomon2]

By the way, Oxford voted against the proposed boycott of Israel on Wednesday, strongly influenced by G. Galloway's cowardly conduct: link