General Pervaiz Musharraf's Last Message to Imran Khan just before his death!

[TsAr]

khan only repeats rhetoric otherwise he would not have brought in Buzdar because his Mrs is family or whatever with them.

There is meritocracy for the most part in the PA(and other branches) until it’s time for 1 star and above - then favoritism does kick in despite a well recorded and thorough red/green flag performance review system to gauge potential.

That being said - favors are curried earlier on but that is true for most militaries(including the US) - if you served as ADC to a 3-star and make a boo boo during your career later -
You can request some references and help to alleviate the punitive actionz

Buzdar was not related to his wife, Buzdar was introduced by Tareen to IK. After elections there were to many aspirants for the coveted Punjab chief minister poster (Fawad, Shah Mehmood, Aleem just to name a few) so so avoid infighting he got Buzdar. IK wanted to change Buzdar but then he was not in a position to do so as Q league was ok with Buzdar and were blackmailing PTI.

 

[Burger_King]

Ah yes the Sharifs...the biggest beneficiaries of military rule in Pak but yet keynote speakers in Asma Jehangir fan club convention. Eager participants in Gulf War 1 coalition and yet would have acted like Salahuddin when Americans invaded Afghanistan. Mayfair properties yet darlings of aashiqay Mumtaz Qadri crowd. Attacked the supreme court yet led jehad for azad adaliya. Demolished hindu temples in Pakistan in the aftermath of felling Babri Masjid and yet reincarnation of Bacha Khan/Azad.

Their history with army chiefs is very interesting. Darlings of Zia, accused of murdering Asif Nawaz and would have either handed architect of Kargill to Indians or would have caused the death of around two hundred innocent people while trying to take him down.

With the birth of Jinnah, Pakistanis hit the jackpot. Sharifs are the karma.

 

[TNT]

Are you having difficulty understanding Pakistan had an open border with Afghanistan and Taliban were hiding in Pakistani territory? Why is that so difficult to understand? Did you want Pakistan to ignore this and carry on as normal? In fact Pakistan did do this to an extent because of its stupid misguided public.

How can Pakistan be a puppy when they didn't even have boots on ground in Afghanistan or Pakistan?

Your argument just does not stack up.

The evil is the Sharifs, Pakistan is their hostage.

Who let the border be open? Who let taliban have sanctuaries in Pakistan? Who made 70,000 medrassas with foreign money n made a pig like fazlu its chief pattern?? Dont be dumb.
Sharif is a low level thief, the real evil is the one behind them.

I think this analysis requires more nuance because this "slave mentality" binary deduction is oblivious of our own limited power potential and ground reality.

Iran has no affinity with Pashtuns. We do. Second, comparing Pakistan to Iran is another bad comparison. They have a commodity that the world wants. We don't.

Can you imagine what the Russian carpet bombing of Afghanistan and its Pashtun areas did to Pakistan and our sense of brotherhood with the suffering Afghans/Pashtuns? Also, if Russians were in Afghanistan then what was to stop their massive land armies to move into Pakistan to get to the warm waters of the Persian Gulf via a land route?

You are deliberately misrepresenting if you think that our generals just give way. Had that been the case then Kashmir would have been done in 1948 and we would not have an Azad Kashmir. Then our generals and military would not have fought 4 wars facing up to an adversary that is at least 3x-7x larger than us in men, material, economy etc. These things should tell you that the khaki color does not run easily despite the silly, politically laced disparaging propaganda against it.

Lastly, Americans are not India. You need to understand the sentiment in the US post 9/11 and the conventional, non-conventional, strategic and financial overmatch the US represents vs. Pakistan. I happened to be there at the time and saw the immense anger in that country and that too against the Taliban and Pakistan, and as a Pakistani, all I could hope for was that Pakistan would play its cards right and thankfully Musharraf did as well as one could, given the circumstances.

48?? Lolz the ppl won Kashmir, not the stupid royal army led by a brit. And that was it, since 48, not an inch taken. These beghairats are only good at surrendering. The same defeatist mentality, US was angry to quickly spread ur legs. Now see what that did, every moron in ghq is their agent and u will never get a patriotic general in decades.

I think this analysis requires more nuance because this "slave mentality" binary deduction is oblivious of our own limited power potential and ground reality.

Iran has no affinity with Pashtuns. We do. Second, comparing Pakistan to Iran is another bad comparison. They have a commodity that the world wants. We don't.

Can you imagine what the Russian carpet bombing of Afghanistan and its Pashtun areas did to Pakistan and our sense of brotherhood with the suffering Afghans/Pashtuns? Also, if Russians were in Afghanistan then what was to stop their massive land armies to move into Pakistan to get to the warm waters of the Persian Gulf via a land route?

You are deliberately misrepresenting if you think that our generals just give way. Had that been the case then Kashmir would have been done in 1948 and we would not have an Azad Kashmir. Then our generals and military would not have fought 4 wars facing up to an adversary that is at least 3x-7x larger than us in men, material, economy etc. These things should tell you that the khaki color does not run easily despite the silly, politically laced disparaging propaganda against it.

Lastly, Americans are not India. You need to understand the sentiment in the US post 9/11 and the conventional, non-conventional, strategic and financial overmatch the US represents vs. Pakistan. I happened to be there at the time and saw the immense anger in that country and that too against the Taliban and Pakistan, and as a Pakistani, all I could hope for was that Pakistan would play its cards right and thankfully Musharraf did as well as one could, given the circumstances.

48?? Lolz the ppl won Kashmir, not the stupid royal army led by a brit. And that was it, since 48, not an inch taken. These beghairats are only good at surrendering. The same defeatist mentality, US was angry to quickly spread ur legs. Now see what that did, every moron in ghq is their agent and u will never get a patriotic general in decades.

 

[Erieye]

Now see what that did, every moron in ghq is their agent and u will never get a patriotic general in decades.

This is an incredibly serious and credible/likely issue.

 

[blain2]

Who let the border be open? Who let taliban have sanctuaries in Pakistan? Who made 70,000 medrassas with foreign money n made a pig like fazlu its chief pattern?? Dont be dumb.
Sharif is a low level thief, the real evil is the one behind them.



48?? Lolz the ppl won Kashmir, not the stupid royal army led by a brit. And that was it, since 48, not an inch taken. These beghairats are only good at surrendering. The same defeatist mentality, US was angry to quickly spread ur legs. Now see what that did, every moron in ghq is their agent and u will never get a patriotic general in decades.



48?? Lolz the ppl won Kashmir, not the stupid royal army led by a brit. And that was it, since 48, not an inch taken. These beghairats are only good at surrendering. The same defeatist mentality, US was angry to quickly spread ur legs. Now see what that did, every moron in ghq is their agent and u will never get a patriotic general in decades.

Clearly a sane discussion cannot happen here. Keep on keeping on!

 

[TNT]

Clearly a sane discussion cannot happen here. Keep on keeping on!

Ofcourse it cant when u deny solid historical facts. Its been the case with most, some are fooled by fairytale fake stories of army while others r fooled by ghazwa e hind and jihad opium.

 

[FuturePAF]

This is a false premise.

Americans have worked with our armed forces since 1958. In this time, both sides have learned to deal with and also keep each other at arms length.

The Americans don't need to put a leash around the CoAS of Pakistan. They do that to not only us, but everyone else in their sphere of influence by selling us their weapons and then calibrate the control points as and when it suits them. Case in point the dependency that PAF, PA and PN have on many, many American weapon systems.

So the above is the risk and also one of the downsides of dealing with the Americans.

The upside, without a shadow of doubt, is you get the best value for your money with the US made weapons. It is a defense industry that has the most rigorous R&D, testing and operational experience inducting weapons in conflicts. These things aren't lost on our military. The same goes for our Arab brethren and also Turkey. They all realize that Americans make the best weapons which can give us a qualitative edge or at least keep our deterrence in place in the face of our adversary.

Secondly, from an economic perspective, yet again Americans control the world financial market. It is not an overblown assessment but any neutral observer can see the stranglehold of the US on Russia and Iran. If the latter two did not have oil to sell at throw-away prices, they would be all the worse for it. The control of all the key financial institutions like IMF, WB, ADB, and influence over various other institutions of consequence (FATF etc.) adds to the juggernaut the United States is, as such no thinking general of the Pakistan Army would like to cut these ties off. Any politician who does won't be able to get Pakistan very many favorable terms.

With the realignment in Afghanistan, the Americans don't need us, yet we have dependencies on them. This is how the US maintains control over the world. They don't need to pay Bajwa or anyone else to bring them over. Our geo-political needs as a country make us dependent on them.

As such, "bik gaiya, sell-out, late gaiya" nonsense is fine for the usual Twitter bakvas. In the real world, the US power has to be contended with and accommodated. This is as clear as night and day to our establishment. Politicians can pander to the domestic politics at the cost of our relations with the preeminent power in the world, it won't do us any good as a country unless other alternates develop. China isn't there yet.

But we have to admit living beyond our means puts us at the mercy of not only the foreign powers but commodities. At the very least we should be self-sufficient to muddle along. We need coal fire power plants to meet 40-60% of our needs and be able to make the power plants and all that goes into them ourselves. Next we need to be able to catch up agriculturally, with all the needed inputs (pesticides, fertilizers, etc.) produced in house. If we can can at least feed (and manage our water) and heat/cool ourselves, we can then make our own decisions, as our basic needs will have been met according to Maslow’s hierarchy of needs.

With our rapidly growing population, we need to manage our water better and raise our agricultural productivity as well as arable land through more dams ASAP. We are on a trajectory to add another 100 million to our population in a generation, the weight of that will be as demand as any external power or commodity.

 

[Erieye]

This is a false premise.

Americans have worked with our armed forces since 1958. In this time, both sides have learned to deal with and also keep each other at arms length.

The Americans don't need to put a leash around the CoAS of Pakistan. They do that to not only us, but everyone else in their sphere of influence by selling us their weapons and then calibrate the control points as and when it suits them. Case in point the dependency that PAF, PA and PN have on many, many American weapon systems.

So the above is the risk and also one of the downsides of dealing with the Americans.

The upside, without a shadow of doubt, is you get the best value for your money with the US made weapons. It is a defense industry that has the most rigorous R&D, testing and operational experience inducting weapons in conflicts. These things aren't lost on our military. The same goes for our Arab brethren and also Turkey. They all realize that Americans make the best weapons which can give us a qualitative edge or at least keep our deterrence in place in the face of our adversary.

Secondly, from an economic perspective, yet again Americans control the world financial market. It is not an overblown assessment but any neutral observer can see the stranglehold of the US on Russia and Iran. If the latter two did not have oil to sell at throw-away prices, they would be all the worse for it. The control of all the key financial institutions like IMF, WB, ADB, and influence over various other institutions of consequence (FATF etc.) adds to the juggernaut the United States is, as such no thinking general of the Pakistan Army would like to cut these ties off. Any politician who does won't be able to get Pakistan very many favorable terms.

With the realignment in Afghanistan, the Americans don't need us, yet we have dependencies on them. This is how the US maintains control over the world. They don't need to pay Bajwa or anyone else to bring them over. Our geo-political needs as a country make us dependent on them.

As such, "bik gaiya, sell-out, late gaiya" nonsense is fine for the usual Twitter bakvas. In the real world, the US power has to be contended with and accommodated. This is as clear as night and day to our establishment. Politicians can pander to the domestic politics at the cost of our relations with the preeminent power in the world, it won't do us any good as a country unless other alternates develop. China isn't there yet.

You're right but still buying out leaders is easy for the US

I can't imagine Showbaz and Sharif clan is too expensive to buy, and they'd lick boots for the right price

Who let the border be open? Who let taliban have sanctuaries in Pakistan? Who made 70,000 medrassas with foreign money n made a pig like fazlu its chief pattern??

It's impossible to permanently close border because tribes on the border will not be happy.

and then Pashtuns in Afghanistan will cry about zaalim porkistanis, then pashtuns in pakistan will also complain then it will be reopened

Mujahideen was required to defeat Soviets who also posed a threat to us. Also its not just easy to remove taliban sanctuaries in Pakistan, remember when Pakistan tried to remove Al Qaeda and ISIS from FATA and the locals defended them??

 

[The Accountant]

What civil war? Terrorism is not "civil war". Let's have absolute clarity on this issue. TTP were/are clearly not the "Mujahideen" that we supported against Russians. None of these terrorists was even born when the Afghan jihad was going on. Anyone with confusion over this needs to revisit history instead of pointing fingers at our establishment. See this for why what went on in FATA had to happen for certain strategic goals to be achieved.

Another "Bangladesh" type scenario is a hype that unfortunately supporters (I will not blame the party leadership because they have always avoided any such talk) of one specific party wants to continue to push for. If another Bangladesh is on the cards then realize it will be at the detriment of Punjabis, Pashtuns, Balochis and Sindhis alike. Nobody can say they had no hand in it. Perhaps some in the said party's base want the "hum idher, tum udher" situation. Try that out in KP and see how well that fares with Afghans hovering around KP ready to pounce and reclaim what they believe they lost more than a 100 years ago.

So these ultimatums may be great for blackmailing, but the reality that awaits dismemberment of Pakistan (over political divide) will be far worse than whatever goes on in Pakistan currently.

NS has been sent packing twice, BB twice, however they never took the secessionist route. It would be highly advisable for the "militant" members of the referenced party to realize the same.

Surprise to see that u r misquoting facts here. FATA operation was started during kiyani tenure long after mushraf was gone. Infact ttp was created in 2007 during last few days of mushraf. However, mushraf is the one that created an environment feasible for creation of ttp.

There is no question about TTP being terrorists. It is the sentiments that resulted in creation of TTP and that sentiments was due to policies of Musharaf.

1. It was mushraf who arrested and gifted afghani and pakistani mujahid freedom fighters to americans.

2. It was mushraf who arrested afghan ambassdor and gave it to US soldiers who then beat him and strip him naked right in front of pakistani soldiers on pakistani soil.

3. It was mushraf who allowed drome strike that resulted in murder of 200 madarsah students.

3. It was mushraf that let hundred of thousands of sorties from Pakistani soil resulted in murder of thousands of Pakistani and afghanis.

4. It was mushraf that handled lal majid issue with voilence when all civilian government was in favor of negotiations.

TTP was a reaction capitalized by extremist for the actions of mushraf and support if international agencies only in 2007 after 6 years of continuous torture and brutal actions of mushraf on afghanis and supporters of taliban.

Another threat that if a divide happens then it will be far worst for KP. Havent we read similar statement about bangladesh ? Look where they are now ? I am again surprised on the mentality of people like you ... Rather then listening to the grievance of people you are threatening of consequences seems like you dont care about the people rather the supermacy of establishment. Pakistan is in worst financial crisis and yet here u r saying that so what it has happened in the past ...

BB, NS sent packing ... Who sent them packing? The person sent them packing and his supporters is then responsible for near default situation of Pakistan. Enough is enough we are done with this bull shit of establishment and its supporters.

I dont see when will u open the eyes, meanwhile separatists are getting more and more powerful , army guys cannot go into balochistan and interior sindh and kpk other than in the forma of groups on convoys and yet u r saying we are not in civil war ... Get out of your shell, civilians might not have taken up arms but 80 to 90 percent civilians are cursing army and all of them are not PTI supporters. Get any polls anywhere and u will see the graph of popularity of establishment going down yet not realising the fact and let the only nationalists leader lead the country establishment not only sent him packing but tried to murder him ...

U guys are totally lost cant see writing on the wall

Did not expect this from someone of your calibre and think tank label.

Terrorism is not "civil war", It is not humane. It is not justifiable.

The killing of innocents, the killing of teachers, the killing of labourers is a crime against humanity.

All those who participate in such or support such deserve to be crushed by the state with utmost force.

Brother read history. Ttp was created in 2007. How will u justify mushraf actions against afghanis before that ?

 

[airmarshal]

And this was the man that IK called "Ghattiya". For those wondering, look up a video on YT of IK with his young sons.

Musharraf was a patriot till his last breath. Nobody can take that away from him.

"وہ بہت بڑے انسان تھے ان کے دوست چھوٹے ثابت ہوئے ہمیشہ پاکستان فرسٹ ان کی سوچ اور نظریہ تھا، خدا غریق رحمت کرے"
- Ch Fawad Hussain

He was patriotic. But he was ghattiya in many ways. He was killing people on streets of Karachi on May 12, 2007 through MQM. That same evening he was pumping fists that he stopped the CJ, an as*hole no less.

He gave NRO to be in the seat of power.

I still think he was decent man. Good at heart. But he did things that we cant forgive him for.

When he removed Nawaz, he was as popular as Imran Khan is now. He could have strangled Nawaz Sharif for his corruption. He did not. He let him go. Then in 2002, using NAB and corruption cases, he manipulated politicians to form his king party. This is where I myself stopped praising him.

He was a typical Pakistani general who did not believe in rule of law. As military has always acted above law without accountability, we dont expect anything from its officers.

Please. hamari jaan chorh do.

 

[Pakstallion]

A patriot till the end. May Allah accept him and forgive his shortcomings. A hero who saved Pakistan from Sharif tola in 1999. Acknowledged his mistakes. I hope we are able to collate some of his accomplishments. Although he has apologized repeatedly for NRO which pushed Pak back, probably his biggest mistake.

One I have seen not mentioned is Gazi Barotha, the last major dam made in Pakistan started in 1999 and completed in 2002. 1450 MW cheap electricity. Great work on lining the canals also to limit water loss.

Even Kargil a reply to Meghdoot, and trying to take India conventionally while the differential wasn’t too big. Still holding on to many of those peaks.

 

[The Accountant]

A patriot till the end. May Allah accept him and forgive his shortcomings. A hero who saved Pakistan from Sharif tola in 1999. Acknowledged his mistakes. I hope we are able to collate some of his accomplishments. Although he has apologized repeatedly for NRO which pushed Pak back, probably his biggest mistake.

One I have seen not mentioned is Gazi Barotha, the last major dam made in Pakistan started in 1999 and completed in 2002. 1450 MW cheap electricity. Great work on lining the canals also to limit water loss.

Even Kargil a reply to Meghdoot, and trying to take India conventionally while the differential wasn’t too big. Still holding on to many of those peaks.

My friend sorry but he is the one that gave NRO to this corrupt tola to legitimise his own government. So removal of NS was to save his own skin and get the government nothing less nothing more

 

[Pakstallion]

My friend sorry but he is the one that gave NRO to this corrupt tola to legitimise his own government. So removal of NS was to save his own skin and get the government nothing less nothing more

Completely agree with you. But if we compare him to Benazir or Nawaz he was leagues ahead of them for Pakistan. In the end the NRO and his belief in his indispensability got him.

Even Feb 2019 results against India can be traced back to him and aquisitions he pushed for like F16s with AMRAMs, Eriye signed for in his time.

 

[The Accountant]

Completely agree with you. But if we compare him to Benazir or Nawaz he was leagues ahead of them for Pakistan. In the end the NRO and his belief in his indispensability got him.

Even Feb 2019 results against India can be traced back to him and aquisitions he pushed for like F16s with AMRAMs, Eriye signed for in his time.

Sorry but those F16s were result of blood of our people. It was blood money.

 

[Abid123]

not back then they didnt

Iran is just an overhyped threat, an uncontrollable pakistan is seen as worse of a threat due to its previous islamist tendencies

Maybe not back then.... But now Iran is seen as the bigger threat. Lets live in reality.