General Deepak Kapoor has a big mouth

[Adios Amigo]

This is a baseless thread with no relevance really and is just meant to flame. No one here has any idea what Mr.Kapoors background is and the excellent credentials he brings to the table. I have had the honor to meet him in person and I can say it easily that I have not yet met a more confident and witty person. His statements if read properly and in the correct spirit, do not state anything or try to prove anything and only voices a concern that every Indian shares. If someone is dum enough to call a person of the caliber of Mr.Kapoor dum then Mr.Kayani isnt very far away also with his own often baseless statements. He leads one of the biggest and most powerful armies in the world, I am sure he is up to the task for that. He does not need to prove his intelligence to anyone expect Indians.

hummm, it seems you posted out of utter frustration, buddy

and the question is not about his intelligence or his credentials but his provocative statements.

anyways leaving that aside, since you had the Honor to meet such an incredible personality, i request you should share your pictures with him(if any) as their is a serious controversy going on this thread
regarding his physical appearance

nice to have someone like you, who can help us out on this matter

adiós

 

[Gazzi]

I think should not make such a big deal out of it..he is the COAS and as such he needs to (a) let his enemies now that (i) India is looking at advanced technolgy (ii) India is actively seeking and manufacturing weapons to counter its enemy (iii) India is willing and prepared to protect its borders and (b) Pushing the boundaries and forcing modernation for the Indian Armed Forces into realising that it may be necessary that Indian may have to fight both China and Pakistan, after looking at the facts that each time India have got into a serious confrontation with Pakistan, China has sent huge military assistance and cannot rule out Chinese direct assault.

If he did not say all this and plan for all this is would be an idiot of a COAS, hence he is doing what all of our COAS's are doing. Its just his style is different in that he will highlight it more then needed, but fair do's. We would do the same, just not with so much information, thats all

 

[gubbi]

As i said no reply needed as someone asked for it with a cheap remark. Anyhow.

First of all check that 50+ pages thread about the Gen Kapoor' statement, i had clearly said, that this is the right of Indian Army to do whatever they seem fit for defending their sovereignty.

fair enough.

And as for our "ridiculous" first strike policy, tell me something, if tomorrow China and you go to war, and somehow Chinese break the defensive line or annihilate the Indian Army without employing a nuke, and start a march inside of India with the Intention to break it up or capture New Delhi and the planners in New Delhi see that India is doomed, what will the IA do ?? Keep their nukes safe and sound and hand over it to the Chinese at the Table where Surrender Agreement would be signed ?? For that India spent billions and got nukes ??? OR would IA think of the option to use them and stop the Chinese advance ???

The whole point of having nukes is to act as a deterrent for enemy forces to prevent their grabbing huge chunks of land. That goes for all the nuclear countries in S. Asia.
China, even it it decides to invade India will have to be content with capturing some areas in AP while compromising some of its own areas elsewhere. IA is not the pathetic army that it was in '62. Everyone knows that. China cannot afford to grab a huge chunk of land mass and neither can India, and neither will any of the belligerent armies let the other to do so. The question of employing nukes does not arise.

Hopefully it will now seem that your above genius statement came out to be the ridiculous one, and the ridiculous PA strategy of first strike in face of an Indian Cold Start Doctrine with the same objectives as stated in the above war game scenario may safe Pakistan's ***. Plus who said the first strike option is for Indian cities, a tactical nuke in the battlefield can achieve a stopping of an IA thrust inside Pakistan incase they break our defensive lines.

You need to understand the concept of "Cold Start doctrine". The whole point of this doctrine is to overwhelm Pakistani defenses in a matter of a short duration and grab a swath of Pakistani land before the political machinery and world pressure steps in to stop the conflict - a response which would be rapid.
The objective of CDS is not to tip Pakistani establishment's nuclear threshold too much for some trigger-happy generals to see the green light to launch nukes. In Pak establishment's pov, there is a point of no return after which the possibility of a nuclear strike is very much possible/becomes a necessity. CDS tries to circumvent that and is quite effective. That is why Pak establishment is so worried about CDS.

So get over this ridiculous thing of yours that first strike is some ridiculous thing to offend India. Its for Pakistan's own protection against Indian offensive designs and superior Indian military machines. Hope you got the idea now.

I have mentioned elsewhere that Pakistani first strike policy is a double-edged sword.

link

In a likely scenario a war erupts between the two neighbors, India with its conventional edge over Pakistan will surely make rapid gains in the initial stages. However Pakistan retains the First-Strike policy.
Imagine, even if Pakistan decides to lob a few missiles from your much vaunted missile arsenal, India has the capability to easily detect them at launch, if not during preparatory stages! Do you seriously think that Indian decision makers will wait for that missile to cross over and detonate to find out whether its got a conventional load or a nuclear one?
Rest assured any missile launch from Pakistan during a conflict will be treated as a nuclear strike and will call for a massive retaliation. Wanna bet, India will end up launching nukes first?
Like I said in one of earlier posts, First-strike policy is a double edged sword, with one edge much closer to your throats than you think!

There are certain conditions to be met (or strategic losses) according to Pakistani establishment's views before anyone can say "launch the nukes!"

We can't see our country dismembered by Indian offensive and hegemonic designs just like 71. This time, hum tu doobay hain sanam, tuhay bhi lae doobain gae, would be the strategy, but God willing that day won't have to be seen.

CDS does not provide for 'dismemberment' of Pakistan - as is wrongly believed by many people - but on the contrary is a military doctrine to achieve certain quick strategic military goals so as to be used as a bargaining chip in the later political process.
As for your "strategy", that is exactly why Pakistan finds itself in such a mess. Its up to you to change it for your own betterment.

And as for KL bill and the statement which was issued, read the whole story and then open up, otherwise keep it shut as you guys have no idea about it, or what is happening on this side.

The whole KL bill issue was/is for the Pakistani civilian government to handle. Constitutionally your COAS has to fall in line with the objectives of the civilian government - which hardly happens in Pakistan! And that my friend, was my point.

 

[desiman]

hummm, it seems you posted out of utter frustration, buddy

and the question is not about his intelligence or his credentials but his provocative statements.

anyways leaving that aside, since you had the Honor to meet such an incredible personality, i request you should share your pictures with him(if any) as their is a serious controversy going on this thread
regarding his physical appearance

nice to have someone like you, who can help us out on this matter

adiós

Yup there is frustration for sure, when schoolboys question a man who has repeatedly proved himself to over a 1 billion people of India. His statements are not provocative but state whats going on in the region. The statements that he made such as limited war etc etc all make sense when you actually read them in concept of whats happening in the region. His statements seem pretty logical to me and only seem to be questioned when our neighbors are mentioned. Yes i do have pics lol infact quite a few but sorry cant post them up here, dont want to reveal my stunning good looks to everyone here LOL

 

[ZTayyab]

the funny thing is India feels like its an Isreal and Pakistan is Gaza. We have a combined force of around 1.5 million soldiers for a reason to. You see this is typical Indian War Rhetoric, If India wanted to attack Pakistan, Mumbai was its calling. Doesn't matter what America would have said you just had to pull we are going after the terrorists card. Pakistan beutifully called India's bluff. You see India wants a simultaneous battle ground .. Pakistan has got enough in its Arsenal to cause India huge problems. China is a Superpower ever rapidly developing Armed Forces. But yeah Kapoor certianly spicened up proceedings.. the funny thing is Pakistan has more than home made rockets. The missile System will be ready in 10 minutes. If we do go down i assure you there wont be an India left either.

 

[ZTayyab]

Cold Start Doctrine lol Oh and India will reach Pindi in 2 days. the way he talks does Pakistan have such a big army?
If he thinks that his boys have got an extremely rude and violent awakening.
Its Indian Strategy Ruby the Cold War Doctrine the master piece of Indian Generals and war planners
Your telling me the Top Brass of Pakistan Army have no reply to such a doctrine ? im sure Pakistan has a befitting response awaiting

 

[Kinshuk]

Calm down guys, how does it matter what he said? Is your govt doing anything about it? Are you going for any offensive against India? No.

No such thing is happening. So why are you blaming the whole country? Such statements are quite common in defense forces. And forget about that, please don't mind as I am very neutral, but if we look at our own self then only we can develop. Your very own leaders made a public statement "Zardari ***** hai hai". you want me to post the video?

You guys are contradicting your own point, at one instance you say, its India who wants war, and very next second you also said your army don't have guts. Mumbai was your call. Wasn't it immature?

Ok its a very good thing if you are a military super power, and may you all flourish in your en devours but such a discussion is baseless. You or I shouldn't be bothered about it.

I am not here to support India or Pakistan, and I am not even trying to be nice. I had been reading defence.pk since last few months and was very impressed with the way Indis and Pakis discuss in a civilized manner.
Though I am very disappointed, lol how does it matter, if a single guy is disappointed. But if a general makes some statement we fight in our own, passing sarcastic comments.

I am sorry I think I went quite off topic but my but it just gave me a reason to cry looking at everyones hate and sarcastic comments. and that too just because someone was a little outspoken.

Regards,

I hope to get banned, India Pakistan thing is everywhere. carry on everyone. thanks for your time for my stupid read,

 

[Peshwa]

There really isnt much value to this thread which after going through 3 others on the same topic feels like groundhog day......

Lets settle this for once....
If the Generals statements make India and Indians feel secure about the fact that "India can take on 2 enemies simultaneously", then the General is doing his job and doing it damn well....
At the same point, if the General is giving India's enemies something to think about...then even better.....Psychological warfare is underated but damn effective.....

Now on the other hand.....If Pakistani's and Chinese feel that the General has gone a bit over the top, then thats their lookout......Pakistani Generals Tariq's statements clearly show the confidence of the armed forces of Pakistan and the "befitting reply" that they can give India......
So where is the problem?.....Why are so many Pakistani's resorting to insults and bad mouthing if they take this news with a grain of salt......
Seriously....the thread is starting to wreak of insecurity!!!

 

[Kinshuk]

I apologies on his behalf, lets forget and forgive. It is not affecting anyones life.

Sorry Sir ji. Lets discuss something better, I have created a new thread regarding Phalcon and Erieye in air combat. Lets discuss that.

Sorry again if I am not making sense.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

There really isnt much value to this thread which after going through 3 others on the same topic feels like groundhog day......

Lets settle this for once....
If the Generals statements make India and Indians feel secure about the fact that "India can take on 2 enemies simultaneously", then the General is doing his job and doing it damn well....
At the same point, if the General is giving India's enemies something to think about...then even better.....Psychological warfare is underated but damn effective.....

Now on the other hand.....If Pakistani's and Chinese feel that the General has gone a bit over the top, then thats their lookout......Pakistani Generals Tariq's statements clearly show the confidence of the armed forces of Pakistan and the "befitting reply" that they can give India......
So where is the problem?.....Why are so many Pakistani's resorting to insults and bad mouthing if they take this news with a grain of salt......
Seriously....the thread is starting to wreak of insecurity!!!

Peshwa its okay if he is doing a responsiable job at the RIGHT TIME..But Mr Kapoor clearly doesnt have the sense or he is just an iresponsiable man as STATED BY OUR GENERAL.
By giving idiotic statements like THERE IS DANGER OF A LIMITED NUCLEAR WAR AND NOW SIMULTANIOUS WARS AND REACHING RAWALPINDI IN 96 HOURS Clearly states that the indian generals are either iresponsiable or just too old to understand the DYNAMICS OF STATEGY AND TIMINGS.
Its upto you to declare him a iresponsiable man or just an OLD TIMER.
ENJOY

 

[Kinshuk]

Peshwa its okay if he is doing a responsiable job at the RIGHT TIME..But Mr Kapoor clearly doesnt have the sense or he is just an iresponsiable man as STATED BY OUR GENERAL.
By giving idiotic statements like THERE IS DANGER OF A LIMITED NUCLEAR WAR AND NOW SIMULTANIOUS WARS AND REACHING RAWALPINDI IN 96 HOURS Clearly states that the indian generals are either iresponsiable or just too old to understand the DYNAMICS OF STATEGY AND TIMINGS.
Its upto you to declare him a iresponsiable man or just an OLD TIMER.
ENJOY

Ok he is irresponsible. With No sense. it should even put you in a comfortable position brother. So be happy. cheers.

 

[Peshwa]

Peshwa its okay if he is doing a responsiable job at the RIGHT TIME..But Mr Kapoor clearly doesnt have the sense or he is just an iresponsiable man as STATED BY OUR GENERAL.
By giving idiotic statements like THERE IS DANGER OF A LIMITED NUCLEAR WAR AND NOW SIMULTANIOUS WARS AND REACHING RAWALPINDI IN 96 HOURS Clearly states that the indian generals are either iresponsiable or just too old to understand the DYNAMICS OF STATEGY AND TIMINGS.
Its upto you to declare him a iresponsiable man or just an OLD TIMER.
ENJOY

Here's my outlook on things.....
"right time" to devise a strategy or build confidence in your people is "sooner than later...NOT when sh!t hits the fan".....
"Plan for the worst...and Hope for the Best"......
The Plan is to have the capability and mettle to deal with 2 threats simultaneously....The hope is that everything works India's way and that the "96 hour seige" will end in the desired time frame with the desired result......
Treat the entire doctrine as a hypothesis.....It can be made into a theory only after operationaly successful.....which we will find out only at the time of reckoning
I dont see how it is idiotic to plan a strategy ahead of time(If not now then when?).....and like I mentioned....if Pakistani's think the statements are that stupid and far fetched....then why break into three threads worth of insults? Obviously there are some insecurities we all smell....

I sincerely hope that Pakistani Generals dont leave their planning to the 25th hour......and I am quite certain they dont.....

PS: Before you criticize the General....and his credibility...please note that the man commands over 2 Million soldiers who are ready to march to death at his order......which frankly I think exceeds yours mine and anyone else's on this forum.....so have some respect for the man and refrain from using degrading language about him....

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Here what i ask;
Do you see any hostility?with PAK-CHINA?=NO
Anybody threatened india=?=NO
What if CHINAS OR [PAKISTANS COAS say that i will destroy delhi in 96 hours?
IN THE SAME TEMPRAMENT
AND THE SH..T HITTING THE FAN DO YOU SEE ANY SIGNS OF THAT?
FO of PAKISTAN and GEN Tareeq have given a good enough answer that it is an iresponsiable statement from an iresponsiable man.
(Leave china, he (indian coas) knows that we can pull it that he can only think of, MILITARILY.

 

[TaimiKhan]

fair enough.


The whole point of having nukes is to act as a deterrent for enemy forces to prevent their grabbing huge chunks of land. That goes for all the nuclear countries in S. Asia.
China, even it it decides to invade India will have to be content with capturing some areas in AP while compromising some of its own areas elsewhere. IA is not the pathetic army that it was in '62. Everyone knows that. China cannot afford to grab a huge chunk of land mass and neither can India, and neither will any of the belligerent armies let the other to do so. The question of employing nukes does not arise.

You need to understand the concept of "Cold Start doctrine". The whole point of this doctrine is to overwhelm Pakistani defenses in a matter of a short duration and grab a swath of Pakistani land before the political machinery and world pressure steps in to stop the conflict - a response which would be rapid.
The objective of CDS is not to tip Pakistani establishment's nuclear threshold too much for some trigger-happy generals to see the green light to launch nukes. In Pak establishment's pov, there is a point of no return after which the possibility of a nuclear strike is very much possible/becomes a necessity. CDS tries to circumvent that and is quite effective. That is why Pak establishment is so worried about CDS.

I have mentioned elsewhere that Pakistani first strike policy is a double-edged sword.
There are certain conditions to be met (or strategic losses) according to Pakistani establishment's views before anyone can say "launch the nukes!"

CDS does not provide for 'dismemberment' of Pakistan - as is wrongly believed by many people - but on the contrary is a military doctrine to achieve certain quick strategic military goals so as to be used as a bargaining chip in the later political process.
As for your "strategy", that is exactly why Pakistan finds itself in such a mess. Its up to you to change it for your own betterment.

The whole KL bill issue was/is for the Pakistani civilian government to handle. Constitutionally your COAS has to fall in line with the objectives of the civilian government - which hardly happens in Pakistan! And that my friend, was my point.

Sometimes, rather most of the time debating with you guys is like , with no result at the end.

Pure wastage of time on my part.

 

[ALTAY1971]

I DON'T KNOW THE GENERAL BUT HE SHOULD NOT SAY THİNGS OPENLY UNLESS NO OTHER OPTİON LEFT FOR HİM,HE İS A SOLDİER NOT A DİPLOMAT OR POLİTİCİAN OTHERWİSE HE WİLL PUT HİMSELF AND HİS COUNTRY İN AN ORCWARD POSİTİON...