Gen (r) Ehsan-ul-Haq slams Afghanistan

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

And, umm...,gee but did General ul-Haq say that 60% of Afghanistan is Pashtun (4:29)?

I noticed that too, but also pay attention to how he emphasizes that 'in his opinion'. At least I noticed the emphasis the first time I listened to the video and understood that he was conveying his own opinion on the issue.

Given that there has been no census in decades (online reports indicate an incomplete census in 1979), no once can claim to have an accurate idea of the demographic breakup of Afghanistan, and the controversy will likely only be resolved once a census is held.

I've long contended that nothing stops Pakistan from fencing and mining ITS side of the border. Step back one hundred meters, build your fences and lay your mines if you wish. Nobody can stop you. It is, afterall, your land.

The General was expressing his exasperation with the Afghans, in that they complain and complain about cross-border movement, yet have continuously rebuffed Pakistani proposals such as fencing, mining and even biometric identification (his anecdote of the Afghan guards ripping up ID's issued to Pakistanis crossing over).

His point was that the Afghans complain about a porous border but have offered no feasible solutions to controlling it, or formalizing it.

I think his points are valid. Afghanistan cannot claim to be a 'good neighbor' so long as it harbors irredentist ambitions - that irredentist ambition is validated through the comments of Karzai and other Afghan government officials that I have posted in the last few weeks or so.

 

[TechLahore]

I noticed that too, but also pay attention to how he emphasizes that 'in his opinion'. At least I noticed the emphasis the first time I listened to the video and understood that he was conveying his own opinion on the issue.

Given that there has been no census in decades (online reports indicate an incomplete census in 1979), no once can claim to have an accurate idea of the demographic breakup of Afghanistan, and the controversy will likely only be resolved once a census is held.

He said this in context of Pakistani territory being considered part of Afghanistan, or Afghani territory being part of Pakistan based on the presence of Pashtuns on either side. His statement could also be interpreted as a reference to Pashtuns occupying 60% of Afghan territory. He does further refer to the land in his comments when he says, "Afghanistan uptil Kabul..." might fall in Pakistan if we went the Pashtun-land-division-theory route.

I think his points are valid. Afghanistan cannot claim to be a 'good neighbor' so long as it harbors irredentist ambitions - that irredentist ambition is validated through the comments of Karzai and other Afghan government officials that I have posted in the last few weeks or so.

Pakistan needs to start thinking beyond Karzai. He will be the first casualty in Post-American Afghanistan.

 

[PAFAce]

Great video. I would have liked to hear what this was in response to, as it seems it really stirred the General's emotions. Proud Pakhtun men don't take too kindly to baseless accusations.

And, umm...,gee but did General ul-Haq say that 60% of Afghanistan is Pashtun (4:29)?

That's not correct and nobody ever says anything like that except Pakistanis. I've quoted all sorts of sources that show so here. Where is his source? Where are YOUR sources for such a continuous mis-representation? I'd like to read them please.

He was speaking of the area inhabited by the Pakhtun of Afghanistan. The area upto and beyond, according to him, Kabul. That was what the point of his talk was, that if you want to divide it based on ethnicity or history, up to 60% of it comes into Pakistan (in his opinion).

Also, even if we take your interpretation of what he meant, you should know by now that there are no distinct dividing lines between the ethnicities present in the region. I, myself, can trace my lineage back to, at various times, Arab warriors who invaded India and Rajput clans of Punjab, so what does that make me? So, if he says, "in my opinion there are 60% Pakhtun", then maybe his opinion is based on something (what an amazing thought that would be). This also proves that any survey to classify the over 28 Million people of Afghanistan into various ethnicity groups would be subject to much debate.

Also, there is also a pretty big presence of Hazara people in Pakistan (close to a million, I believe). In fact, the area two hours' drive North-West of my home in Pakistan is known as "Hazara". Hence, if you add up the populations of Hazara and Pakhtun in Afghanistan, it would be close to 60%.

Please, do not try to twist his words to mean something he didn't. Pay attention to his message, not the style of his delivery. You can't deny, at least, that there are more Pakhtun in the region than any other ethnicity.

So far you and the good general haven't gotten your facts straight. Should I give a damn about this collective piling on session you've got going when, once again, you can't even find the most basic of facts-to include WHO exactly the general is addressing?

I've long contended that nothing stops Pakistan from fencing and mining ITS side of the border. Step back one hundred meters, build your fences and lay your mines if you wish. Nobody can stop you. It is, afterall, your land.

You are, collectively, embarassing. My disdain couldn't be more broad. I don't HAVE to be a diplomat but I've got a responsibility to represent the facts as best I can. It will be a great day when you assume the same.

Why should we step back 100 meters? Who are you to tell us to do that? Didn't the good General answer your claims about the border dispute? Why are you ignoring the rest of his talk based on one thing he said, which you probably misunderstood in the first place?

Answer: The rest of his talk was inconvenient for you.

 

[HAIDER]

debate was organized when Baitullah was alive and was in power, gave reference of that guy...so least year old....

 

[Awesome]

The simple fact is, that on the basis of population, we should be given Afghan territories. The thing is we're constantly claiming that we don't want the Afghan territories, once we start asking for them, everyone will fall in line and come to a mid-point.

 

[TechLahore]

The simple fact is, that on the basis of population, we should be given Afghan territories. The thing is we're constantly claiming that we don't want the Afghan territories, once we start asking for them, everyone will fall in line and come to a mid-point.

I know where you're coming from, but we don't want Afghan territories. We'll prevail upon all involved players and get the Durand line acknowledged as the border. It is in everyone's interest. The next five years will prove to be the undoing of these previously marginalized warlords now beating anti-Pakistan drums while desperately clinging to power in Kabul. Their moment in the spotlight is over.

 

[Ahmad]

I know where you're coming from, but we don't want Afghan territories. We'll prevail upon all involved players and get the Durand line acknowledged as the border. It is in everyone's interest. The next five years will prove to be the undoing of these previously marginalized warlords now beating anti-Pakistan drums while desperately clinging to power in Kabul. Their moment in the spotlight is over.

Warlords dont have a claim on Durand Line, it is some ethno-nationalist groups.

 

[hunter_hunted]

man there was no Afghanistan in history it was Khurasan in historical pages if im not wrong. And Pakhtuns are in each part of Pakistan. Afghans are living in Pakistan, they are getting education in Pakistan and are well settled in Pakistan. please don't b so mean. Use ur brain now even u want to take it, u will never b able to do that. So stop fighting with Pakistan this not doing any good to both.

Even i know a guy he was my class fellow not to mention he was Afghan. During university time he lived in Pakistan for 5 years or may be more then 5, he lived there, completed his education , enjoyed there but at the end the he spoke against Pakistan WTF is this.

Gen. Ehsan that was a nice slam.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

as Asim said in another thread -- a principled, mature and proper stance which should be respected and recognized by ALL.