Gen.Kayani To Visit Russia This Month

[newdelhinsa]

@Francis.

They will offer them the most valuable thing. Access to Middle East, Africa, Arabian Sea. So actually Russia will have more benefits.

Russian desperation for access to warm water is a myth and only gullible nationalist Pakistanis buy it. Stop believing in this myth.

 

[KRAIT]

^then buddy you have to read a lot. There are many reasons. When US is installing BMD in Europe, Russia wants to challenge US feelt in IOR and Arabian sea
.
Go figure.

 

[KRAIT]

@Hyperion

Rationality is over powered by emotions. That's why.

 

[FaujHistorian]

@Francis.

They will offer them the most valuable thing. Access to Middle East, Africa, Arabian Sea. So actually Russia will have more benefits.

How will Ruskies get to Arabian sea? Fly over Afghanistan? And even if it gets this supposed access, what will Ruskies do with this? import potatoes from India?

Oh brother, Ruskies are no longer interested in connecting to Arabian sea. Had they wanted to, they could easily go through Iran+PG. Much simpler and much more controlled and policed area.

Pakistanis have been smoking this Arabian sea hash for a long long time with no logic whatsoever. Commies had some obsessions with Afghanistan. But then Commies are gone and so is the obsessions with Afghanistan.

The new great game is no longer being played in Arabia Sea. It now is being played up north, way up north close to the North pole, where melting ice is giving way to new sea routes and new places to drill for oil and gas.

Wake up people, why do you all insist on living in a world that is gone away for decades if not for centuries.

Pakistan being a land route up north is a fraud, or at best a dream,

Let's quit perpetuating it.


peace

 

[MastanKhan]

Russia spends XX billion dollars ($ currency for reference only) on Pakistan

Pakistan provides YY billions dollars in cash and ZZ billion dollars in services/raw materials/products.


Anyone who is jumping up and down on the news should provide the values for XX, YY, and ZZ dollars.

No need to wave hands in the air.


peace

Hi,

Look at it this way---as russia is choked out of middle east---an opening thru gwadar is priceless---regardless of anything being exchanged---what value can a nation like russia put on such a strategic access.

Just the road permit to carry goods thru train, road and gas pipeline into and from russia is a goodwill in itself that you cannot put a value on it if you are a russian. 30 years ago they had thousands and thousands of their troops lay down their lives for it and now it is coming to them on an auto pilot.

Time is the greatest equalizer of things that are beyond the control of powers to be.

The land up north has ways to go to be accessible and even then the russians have their feet in that part---. Regardless of what happens up north---people who live in ice cold weather---have a different perception of warmer areas---. They may love their snowy winters but they do want an outlet in warmers areas as well.

As for iran---iran has become a total pariah nation---russia cannot bet on it and neither can it deal with the issues that iran has---so for using the iranian route for the russians is a no no---. The iranians don't offer much except for deceit and larceny---.

Pakistan has much more to offer to the russians---. It does not have the israeli american threat hanging over its head. Pakistan has better relations with all the world than iran---there are no restrictions on pakistan trading with anyone---. Pakistan has tremendous experience in fighting war on terror---alliance with the russians can mean assisting them in their endeavour of taking control of their restive states.

Also---gwadar being so close to the gulf is also just a ways away as well that even the conflict that will start in the gulf will keep the sea lanes open in this area.

Bottomline line---living in snow country---you always want a portal opening into warm areas---. The excavations at the north pole ain't gonna stop the russians of taking advantage down south.

Even with melting snow---there are no new sea routes----as the snow melts due to warmer summers---the winters are just getting as severe as well---so can you can see lesser snow caps in summer but then in winter it is equally horrible----.

But the most important factor right now---it is the unpredictable weather on the poles----. When weather acts as unpredictable as it has been in the last couple of years---you cannot base the foundations of your economic resource on so much un-predictablitiy.

Major investments are made in predictable weather areas---untill and unless the weather patrons of the poles cannot be predicted with surity aas they had been in the past---nobody is going to be betting heavily in those corners---.

So---for the next 50 plus years---it's going to be the same ole middle east.

 

[Thorough Pro]

And what indians can do is troll while their stinking ***** burn and smoke.

Easier said than done, what Russia and Pakistan can do max at this moment of time is shake hands, exchange smiles and nothing else, allies/friends is a very long way to go

 

[FaujHistorian]

Hi,

Look at it this way---as russia is choked out of middle east---an opening thru gwadar is priceless--.....

(sorry for deleting the rest of your post. I feel the retained sentence is the main point)

Please see post #75.

Russia is choked out of ME? Where?

Russia is not choked out of Saudi, or Gulf or Iraq or Yemen, or Jordan due to lack of ground access through Pakistan. Why someone would even think like that?

If Russian wants to do something with Saudi, they don't have to go through Pakistan.
If Russian wants to do something with UAE, they don't have to go through Pakistan.
If Russian wants to do something with Kuwait, they don't have to go through Pakistan.
If Russian wants to do something with Yemen, they don't have to go through Pakistan.
If Russian wants to do something with Syria, are they waiting for an access through Pakistan?

And even for a moment, we say Russians want a ground link to the ME, then Russia is much closer to Iran strategically thinking. But Russia sold Iran to the West and gained European contracts. And believe you me, even if Russians get some concessions from Pakistan, they will sell us to the highest bidder aka USA in less than a second.

I hate to be rude on this topic, so let's assume your vision is more realistic, then please note that Pakistan can only provide this access to Russia if the following are true:

1. Afghanistan is Talib-FREE
2. Pakistan railway and roads are improved 100 times from where they are now.

#1 -- However Pakistani policies both people and government are supporting Taliban, who in turn increase instability in Afghanistan AND Pakistan. How will russia put billions of $ to install and maintain huge roads and rail network in Afghanistan? The only way it could do is to send its peace keeping troops when NATO leaves. Would Afghans accept that?


#2 -- Pakistan railway is on its deathbed. Americans are supplying engines which may or may not get here if Pakistanis start coddling Ruskies. Our roads cannot support NATO trucks to the full capacity and provide security.

How on earth Ruskies will use an access through Pakistan?

Barring peace in Afghanistan or good transportation network in Pakistan, an access to Gawader is useless for Russians. Unless we think that Russians will come and park their naval ships and settle in Gawader for some hookah smoking and playing with local women a la thailand style?

Why we all fail to understand that Gawader is for Pakistani imports and for Pakistani people, and it ought not be considered as a prostitute city to be sold to Chinese or Russians.

Gawader should be developed and connected to Pakistan first and using Pakistani money. Please stop chanting China, or Russian names in the same sentence where Gawader is used.


peace.

 

[Thorough Pro]

The problem with indians is that they have become so ignorantly delusional with their new found money that they think money is everyting in internatinal politics. What Pakistan offers is a partner with a spine, A country who can take a firm stand on internal issues, unlike india which can never take a clear stance on any internal issue.

What can Pakistan offer to Russia ?? Seriously

 

[DARKY]

^^

The Question here is weather Pakistan be strong/capable enough to hand over Gwadar and allow Russian and Americans both in its territory... not to forget the presence of Chinese too in the Northern Areas.
Since NATO isn't going from from Afghanistan for a long time there would be permanent presence of some troops in Afghanistan until some breakthrough is achieved while in negotiations with Iran(which certainly don't seem to be happening.).. Hence the supply route would be still via Pakistan through Karachi.

Besides that how comfortable would Russians be accepting this proposal and venturing into the space under the umbrella of 3 USN CBG... when they are already struggling to keep up their old bases.

Today the main concern for Russian Federation is the oil and gas in the Arctic and not the gulf... they have been building their resources to counter NATO in their own area and not 1000miles beyond where NATO is already strong.

At last Russians are supposed to be the exporters of oil and gas... and not importer their strategic doctrine is more focused on revival of Military back to the soviet levels... they are not even half way up yet.

The problem with indians is that they have become so ignorantly delusional with their new found money that they think money is everyting in internatinal politics. What Pakistan offers is a partner with a spine, A country who can take a firm stand on internal issues, unlike india which can never take a clear stance on any internal issue.

Firm stance on internal issues like every 2nd day drone bombings... in its territory by Americans.

 

[Edevelop]

^^

The Question here is weather Pakistan be strong/capable enough to hand over Gwadar and allow Russian and Americans both in its territory... not to forget the presence of Chinese too in the Northern Areas.
Since NATO isn't going from from Afghanistan for a long time there would be permanent presence of some troops in Afghanistan until some breakthrough is achieved while in negotiations with Iran(which certainly don't seem to be happening.).. Hence the supply route would be still via Pakistan through Karachi.

Besides that how comfortable would Russians be accepting this proposal and venturing into the space under the umbrella of 3 USN CBG... when they are already struggling to keep up their old bases.

Today the main concern for Russian Federation is the oil and gas in the Arctic and not the gulf... they have been building their resources to counter NATO in their own area and not 1000miles beyond where NATO is already strong.

At last Russians are supposed to be the exporters of oil and gas... and not importer their strategic doctrine is more focused on revival of Military back to the soviet levels... they are not even half way up yet.

Sure but at the same time Russia does not like to see NATO military bases in the middle east....

 

[Thorough Pro]

Firm stance on internal issues like every 2nd day drone bombings... in its territory by Americans.

Did you started to suffer from comprehensin problem recently or were you born like that? anyways why are you blabbering about drone strikes? everyone knows these drone strikes are with Pakistans silent acknowledgement, even you indains have been claiming and cribbing about this fact for years on this forum.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Pakistan - Russia Alliance makes sense

The countries are close to each other so any trade between two nations means , cheaper price to move goods across border
cheaper price for food items (Pakistani exports to Russia).

Also Russians have vast knowledge in Oil and Gas sector , and we can benefit from this knowledge and help construct
Coal extraction plants an refinement for usage with Russian help.

Its a 12 Billion Dollar Done deal to bring , Pakistan and Russia closer.

Also as Token of friendship Russia has offered to finance Pakistan-Iran Pipeline , again it helps solidify economies of Pakistan and Iran which helps Russia , as they are Russia's Neighbors.


Pakistan Needs:
Financing for Gas Pipelines, this will fuel 1000+ industrial companies in Pakistan billion dollar return
Financing for Water Dams , again billions could be earned if dams are constructed
Financing for Thar Coal Project
Financing for Steele Mills and Other corporations
Pakistan has a need for Helicopters, SAM , Sukhoi Jets

Russia Need:
High quality food resources
Russia needs sports goods
Good established nations to be friend in region to build economic security and stability
Dependable Allies on world political discussions
Avenue into Indian Oceans for trade
Russia needs to sell Helicopters and Sukhoi Jets


Anyway you look at it ... the Partnership will bear positive outcome for Pakistan and Russia

And it also helps that China is Russia's good trade partner , so its completely logical that we also improve our ties with Russia


If I am not mistaken recently Russia Backed Pakistan's view on Syria and it shows that Russia treats Pakistan's voice as a respectable nation.


Pakistan could earn 100-200 Billion dollars due to Russian investment into Pakistan -Iran gas pipeline , and Thar coal projects

I mean specially Thar coal project , more coal then oil in Saudia , I mean that can fuel Pakistani economy for next 100 years

Biggest plus nations are members in new alliance

Shanghai Cooperation Organization


Also Russia does not care that much about Middle East because its already blessed with
"Oil and Gas" what it seeks are allies who can purchase the oil and gas , items in return for food items and natural mineral resources which Pakistan is blessed with


Pakistan's Foreign Policy:

For Russia its important that NATO does not meddles around with Syria and Pakistan respects that and similarly Russia and Pakistan don't feel that Iran is an issue which is why they are supporting trade with iran with the Iran - Pakistan Gas pipeline.


Its also a healthy Alliance

Nuclear Russia
Nuclear Pakistan
Nuclear China
Nuclear Iran
Nuclear North Korea

And possibly India , depending on which side the camel will sit on a given day

 

[DARKY]

Did you started to suffer from comprehensin problem recently or were you born like that? anyways why are you blabbering about drone strikes? everyone knows these drone strikes are with Pakistans silent acknowledgement, even you indains have been claiming and cribbing about this fact for years on this forum.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/01/world/obamas-counterterrorism-aide-defends-drone-strikes.html?_r=1
BBC NEWS | South Asia | Pakistan protest to US ambassador
Pakistan fury as CIA airstrike on village kills 18 - Telegraph
Civilian deaths in Pakistan attack - Central & South Asia - Al Jazeera English
PressTV - Pakistan threatens to retaliate against US
NDTV.com: Share intelligence, stop drone attacks: Zardari to US

Pakistani Military Chief Gen Ashfaq Pervez Kayani had issued multiple directives since the Nov. 26 NATO attack, which included orders to shoot down U.S. drones, senior military officials confirmed to NBC News on Saturday.

Pakistan says U.S. drones in its air space will be shot down - World News
Drone War Exposed – the complete picture of CIA strikes in Pakistan: TBIJ
Drone Attacks in Pakistan | PakistanBodyCount.org
The News International: Latest News Breaking, Pakistan News

Means Pakistan has been supporting the murder of its own women and children by some CIA official sitting in Pentagon playing his usual game with its RC plane... and this has been the internal Policy you have been so praising ?

Did you started to suffer from comprehensin problem recently or were you born like that? anyways why are you blabbering about drone strikes? everyone knows these drone strikes are with Pakistans silent acknowledgement, even you indains have been claiming and cribbing about this fact for years on this forum.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/01/world/obamas-counterterrorism-aide-defends-drone-strikes.html?_r=1
BBC NEWS | South Asia | Pakistan protest to US ambassador
Pakistan fury as CIA airstrike on village kills 18 - Telegraph
Civilian deaths in Pakistan attack - Central & South Asia - Al Jazeera English
PressTV - Pakistan threatens to retaliate against US
NDTV.com: Share intelligence, stop drone attacks: Zardari to US

Pakistani Military Chief Gen Ashfaq Pervez Kayani had issued multiple directives since the Nov. 26 NATO attack, which included orders to shoot down U.S. drones, senior military officials confirmed to NBC News on Saturday.

Pakistan says U.S. drones in its air space will be shot down - World News
Drone War Exposed – the complete picture of CIA strikes in Pakistan: TBIJ
Drone Attacks in Pakistan | PakistanBodyCount.org
The News International: Latest News Breaking, Pakistan News

Means Pakistan has been supporting the murder of its own women and children by some CIA official sitting in Pentagon playing his usual game with its RC plane... and this has been the internal Policy you have been so praising ?

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

That was off topic Darky hopefully we will have plenty of good news in upcoming weeks from Yours truely General Kiyani

Never doubt the man who holds the "STICK"

Jis ki lathi us ki bhainssssse

 

[Tehmasib]