Gen Ayub, Zia, Musharaf, whose policies were better

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Relaxing at Hawkes Bay, Karachi

Riding a camel in the Thar Desert

With Field Marshal Sir Claude Auchinleck

With King Faisal of Saudi Arabia

With President Charles De Gaulle, in Paris

With the Deputy Defence Minister of Russia, Marshal A.A. Grechko, at the State Guest House, Rawalpindi, 10 March 1969.

Despite failing health, Ayub Khan posed for a photograph with his wife a few days before his death

 

[Silent observer]

Thank you for sharing, i really appreciate your efforts of posting these pictures here. the pictures are great and a treat to watch.

moreover, i am thankful for enlisting the policies of Gen Ayub Khan. i will definitely try to find this book (diaries of Ayub Khan) ASAP. My knowledge about him is very limited and it mostly restricted to1965 war and construction of Islamabad. your post definitely will help me and other memebers as well to know Gen ayub better.

thank you for participation in the poll and your comments, i appreciate it.

best regards

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Always here to help and contribute!!

To best understand the period prior to/leading up to/during/after the war --its best to get different accounts.

Read Ayub Khan diaries...get the perspectives from Gen. Musa. Get the perspectives from other academics and military figures.

I would STRONGLY recommend you also go to bookshop and get the book A History of the Pakistan Army (Third Edition) by Brian Cloughley

it contains chapters on the 1965 war ---the successes, the shortcomings...the figures involved etc. Pretty good detail, discusses contributions and actions taken out by the Armed Services --and also gives account from enemy point of view.


having read it, i can say the facts are reasonably well-presented....some errors and factual mis-information (as is always the case) but a good read for the most part and a good account of the history of the army and battles fought throughout time.



regards






p.s. to get more detailed insight into 65 and 71 wars through Air Force lens, I would recommend "Flight of the Falcons" by Air Commodore (retd.) S. Sajad Haider. He is VERY critical of the way Ayub Khan, Gen. Musa and company handled the 65 war (among other things --he had a grudge against dictators). An interesting read through the lens of a distinguished and celebrated pilot of PAF. In depth accounts of the air battles.

many other books out there...

 

[Silent observer]

Always here to help and contribute!!

To best understand the period prior to/leading up to/during/after the war --its best to get different accounts.

Read Ayub Khan diaries...get the perspectives from Gen. Musa. Get the perspectives from other academics and military figures.

I would STRONGLY recommend you also go to bookshop and get the book A History of the Pakistan Army (Third Edition) by Brian Cloughley

it contains chapters on the 1965 war ---the successes, the shortcomings...the figures involved etc. Pretty good detail, discusses contributions and actions taken out by the Armed Services --and also gives account from enemy point of view.


having read it, i can say the facts are reasonably well-presented....some errors and factual mis-information (as is always the case) but a good read for the most part and a good account of the history of the army and battles fought throughout time.



regards






p.s. to get more detailed insight into 65 and 71 wars through Air Force lens, I would recommend "Flight of the Falcons" by Air Commodore (retd.) S. Sajad Haider. He is VERY critical of the way Ayub Khan, Gen. Musa and company handled the 65 war (among other things --he had a grudge against dictators). An interesting read through the lens of a distinguished and celebrated pilot of PAF. In depth accounts of the air battles.

many other books out there...

Thank you for the books names and info, i appreciate it.

i have one question (a little personal though), so if you do not want to answer please do not mind and just ignore my post.

did you see the era of gen ayub khan or by chance ever met him or your knowledge about him and his personality is based on history books and literature? i mean, i was born after his tenure of presidency was over. i remmember Gen zia s tenure and off course seen gen musharaf s tenure.

Best regards

sincerely

 

[Super Falcon]

my vote is with Gen Zia-ul-haq.

i think his policies and decisions (when Russia was in afghanistan) and handling of US, were comendable. we were able to push a super power back due to his (and his colleagues) strategies (a marvelous achievemnet) and on the other hand he equipped our forces with the modern weapons.

regards

tell u what as a zia supporter that feel me ur biggest enemy on the forum and zia is the biggest asss hole that pakistan produced enemy of state and nation and with bhutto in govt we would have better than zia got for us bhutto gave us nukes integrity in UNO he just gave F 16 and u loved him bhutto have got pakistan out of US sanctions at that time what ever zia have done it left the aftermath on pakistan even today i would assure u if bhutto was alive our economy would have touceh high levels in asia for sure man what the u r talking about ZIA my fooooot enemy of nation of pakistan.

 

[Hammy007]

tell u what as a zia supporter that feel me ur biggest enemy on the forum and zia is the biggest asss hole that pakistan produced enemy of state and nation and with bhutto in govt we would have better than zia got for us bhutto gave us nukes integrity in UNO he just gave F 16 and u loved him bhutto have got pakistan out of US sanctions at that time what ever zia have done it left the aftermath on pakistan even today i would assure u if bhutto was alive our economy would have touceh high levels in asia for sure man what the u r talking about ZIA my fooooot enemy of nation of pakistan.

bhutto was an intelligent politician and a leader, but you cant say, pakistan whould have been quite different and developed if bhutto remained alive. bhutto misused his power, he filled illeterates in the civil services and government jobs. his policy of nationalization was the biggest disaster. due to the stubborness of bhutto, indians took advantage of the circumstances and divided the country.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

nationalization of industries and corporate entities never works. Its stupid. And it cost us. Same way it cost Egyptians under Nasser

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

bhutto is also to blame for 71

 

[qsaark]

bhutto is also to blame for 71

Though not as much as Yahya.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Though not as much as Yahya.

well yeah that's true too, but Yahya is often channeled most of the blame --which is wrong. At least he was going to Dhaka and chairing meetings with the stubborn mujib. Bhutto was always making fiery statements about crushing this and "fixing" that....He was hot-headed at times.

Many aspects and many personalities require the blame......In Pakistan we have a habit of just making one person a scape-goat for every f*ck up. This is wrong, and its a dis-service

 

[Creder]

None of them, they were generals not politicians wish our army would learn that lesson and leave governance to the politicians. Our army generals are the ones responsible for tearing this country into pieces, and taking away from us a leader like Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto.

 

[Silent observer]

tell u what as a zia supporter that feel me ur biggest enemy on the forum and zia is the biggest asss hole that pakistan produced enemy of state and nation and with bhutto in govt we would have better than zia got for us bhutto gave us nukes integrity in UNO he just gave F 16 and u loved him bhutto have got pakistan out of US sanctions at that time what ever zia have done it left the aftermath on pakistan even today i would assure u if bhutto was alive our economy would have touceh high levels in asia for sure man what the u r talking about ZIA my fooooot enemy of nation of pakistan.

super falcon

i am sorry if i hurt your feelings by voting for zia but everyone has different opinion.

about bhutto, i am not against bhutto but as you can see from my first post bhutto is not included in this poll. my simple and straight forward question was whose policies were better for pakistan? the competitor are Gen Ayub, Zia Musharaf. out of these 3 i have seen the tenures of zia and musharaf and have very little knowledge about ayub. out of the 2 whom i know, i think zia was better because musharaf was a little too much YES SIR to US and EU. just my opinion.

anyways thank you for your comments and participation in the thread. i appreciate it

regards

 

[Silent observer]

None of them, they were generals not politicians wish our army would learn that lesson and leave governance to the politicians. Our army generals are the ones responsible for tearing this country into pieces, and taking away from us a leader like Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto.

dear friend

no one is favoring dictatorship here.

the thread is not about who killed who or who tear the country. it is simply about the poilicies of the 3 generals who became president and remain as presidents for a very long time.

i hope you understand my point. anyhow, thank you for yor participation and opinion.

regards

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

None of them, they were generals not politicians wish our army would learn that lesson and leave governance to the politicians. Our army generals are the ones responsible for tearing this country into pieces, and taking away from us a leader like Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto.

fair enough. But exactly what good did Z.A. Bhutto bring? He alienated the industrialists, screwed the economy with his nationalization policies, he himself bent over backwards to some of the fundamentalists......PPP traditionally has been good at shouting slogans.

and like I said, he is equally to blame for some of the blunders....


as a person, as a speaker and as a figure --he was charismatic and educated. He spoke well, and he kept Pakistan at his heart. But his policies were just plain stupid.

Should have learned from Abdel Nasser example in Egypt......total economic stagnation

 

[Fracker]

Why is there no option for NONE OF ABOVE? Why one of them HAS to be good? Who ever General has conquered Islamabad is equal. No doctor can run a bank and no banker can be a dentist. Why the heck you think a warrior is the best governor of a country? He is NOT and it has been proven times an again.

Go study GOOD TO GREAT, the research book that revels success pattern of organizations and institutions. Understand what is importance of right men at the right job and no matter how good Musharaf, or Zia or Ayub has been in army, they were failures as dictators and none gave Paksitan an element that we could enjoy today. If Democracy is piece of $hit, get the Khalafat Back but this dictatorship is of no use and we have reached this conclusion times and again.

WTF, so you think a person who came out of the prison can be good leader? or a Jagidar/wadera can be good leader? or a Businessman?

Leader ship requires these things,
1) Command And control
2) Management Skills,
3) Communication Skills
4) Decision Making
5) Deciplain
6) Uniting the people, team skills
7) & most important Patriotism.

if we compare all leaders of pakistan, and think about above qualities, we get the idea all three army chiefs were far far better then those who came through democratic way.