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Gen Ayub, Zia, Musharaf, whose policies were better

whose policies were better for Pakistan

  • Gen ayub khan

    Votes: 21 38.9%
  • Gen Zia-ul-Haq

    Votes: 14 25.9%
  • Gen Pervaiz Musharaf

    Votes: 19 35.2%

  • Total voters
    54
^^^


Agreed!
West came to support PA because it was easier to talk to few people than a a tank of illiterate parliamentarians!
 
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^^^

Agreed!
West came to support PA because it was easier to talk to few people than a a tank of illiterate parliamentarians!
Would you give me the names and the educational qualifications of the "tank of illiterate parliamentarians"? For your information, most of them were highly educated and qualified. The government is run through the 'Cabinet' not through the 'Parliament'. The ‘illiterate’ folks generally do not make to the cabinet.
 
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Would you give me the names and the educational qualifications of the "tank of illiterate parliamentarians"?


hmmm
I think you should go here and check they have a complete list!

Complete List of Members National Assembly

and the education part...is it hidden from anyone?
I don't think I stereotyped about the illiterate tank like parliament..
One who has better education is corrupt or one with less education has less capabilities..
You go too much on the words..
illiterate can be in any sense..
no education, lack of abilities with education...
We have educated people in the cabinet but they are "parhay likhay bewakoof" >> in other words illiterate to understand their capabilities...
Studies or degrees don't make you anything...

Research makes you everything!
Contributions make you everything!

Bush got a degree from a good university but what was the use of his degree?
He lit a fire in the world which will eventually finish in his own country!
Education is not a degree instead it is an "Educated mind"

and BB was educated...but it was of no use when she did little to nothing for her country!
Education speaks for itself!

Making a nuclear bomb was an achievement but to use the "danda" was the test..we accomplished the challenge but failed to resist/danda!
 
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Our main ally (if you want to call USA an ally “howey tum dost jis key, dushman uska asmaN kyoN ho) supported dictatorial regimes because it was easier to do business with one person or institution who was answerable to no one.

They had the option to support civilian leadership, spicifically they could have saved ZA Bhutto but they decided otherwise. You rightly said that “howey tum dost jis key, dushman uska asmaN kyoN ho)

People of Pakistan never supported dictators and demonstrations during the time of successive dictators are an example. However, the military dictators made the Pakistanis to support them on the gun point. What explanation you have for the ‘ghunda gardi’ of Captain Gouhar Ayub during the presidential elections of 1965 between Ayub and Mohtarma Fatia Jinnah? Or the reluctance of Yahya to invite the majority party leader, Mr. Mujib to form the government in 1971? Or imposition of Martial Law by Zia when the negotiations between Bhutto and the PNA were successful? This ‘ghunda gardi’ was only possible because one party had the power of the gun while the other was unarmed.

In my entire life, I have only seen people's support for the CJP in March last year. I have seen PPPP workers distributing sweets when NS was thrown out and vice versa. I have also seen statements of support for PA from both NS and BB whenever their opponent was thrown out of power.

I have also seen Shahbaz Shahrif and Ch. Nisar meeting Gen. Kiyani last year even though NS said no to such meetings. My point is that we can't simply blame PA ledaership for all the military rules.

Who came out to support when the dictators were disgraced and thrown out?

Same is true for so called elected leaders as well.

Let me ask you this, Gen Ayub, Zia, Musharaf, whose policies were better?
 
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They had the option to support civilian leadership, specifically they could have saved ZA Bhutto but they decided otherwise. You rightly said that “howey tum dost jis key, dushman uska asmaN kyoN ho)
Countries such as USA (or others as well except Pakistan perhaps) have only one option, to protect their national interests at any cost. How they achieve this is of secondary even tertiary importance. Now it is left to the wisdom of the leaders, the civil society, and the people how they deal with superior and much powerful countries. In my opinion, America or any other country can not be held responsible for the judicial murder of ZA Bhutto. It was not America or any other foreign power that threw Bhutto out of power, framed him in a suspicious murder case, and finally hanged him. This credit goes exclusively to General Zia and people like General Chishti etc.

In my entire life, I have only seen people's support for the CJP in March last year. I have seen PPPP workers distributing sweets when NS was thrown out and vice versa. I have also seen statements of support for PA from both NS and BB whenever their opponent was thrown out of power.

I have also seen Shahbaz Shahrif and Ch. Nisar meeting Gen. Kiyani last year even though NS said no to such meetings. My point is that we can't simply blame PA ledaership for all the military rules.
Army has demonstrated again and again that it is the King maker and the real power broker not the people of Pakistan. Politicians have also learnt this from the successive Martial Laws that the source of the real power is the GHQ, so if they have to bring any change, they should look towards the GHQ not the people of Pakistan. This image of power broker and King Maker is carved out not by the politicians but by the Generals so responsibility goes to the Army first, and than to the politicians. Yes, politicians look towards the GHQ, but why GHQ let them look towards itself? Can GHQ not declare itself as neutral and a professional entity, which has no business with the politics and politicians? Shahbaz and Nisar met with Kiyani, million dollar question is, why did Kiyani agree to meet with them?

Same is true for so called elected leaders as well.
It is not what is true for whom, it is, who went outside the constitutional boundaries while calming to be the Messiah yet failed to secure the respect form the masses.

Let me ask you this, Gen Ayub, Zia, Musharaf, whose policies were better?
Ayub did few things good such as industrialization. However, his decisions such as joining up the SEATO/CENTO, allowing US U-2 spy planes on the Pakistani soil, Indus water treaty, Operation Gibralter and consequently Indo-Pak war of 1965, suppression of the Bengalis, all proved nothing but disastrous. Zia played a pivotal role in the nuclear program of Pakistan, and so long our nuclear deterrent is intact, each and every Pakistani will remain indebted of him and his colleagues. However, his decision of fighting a US proxy war in Afghanistan overshadows his otherwise spotless personality. As far as Musharraf is concerned, I have yet to find one thing that he did and it went in the favor of Pakistan.
 
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I have yet to find one thing that he did and it went in the favor of Pakistan.

This is precisely why I support Gen. Musharraf, now he is retired from PA, he will be more acceptable to people like yourself who support civilian leadership. :tup:
 
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This is precisely why I support Gen. Musharraf, now he is retired from PA, he will be more acceptable to people like yourself who support civilian leadership. :tup:
Why precisely you support him, only you and your Allah knows. He has played his inning; now even if he comes back in the guise of an angel, he will not be acceptable. He never was acceptable; it was the power of his uniform that literally shoved his illegal and un-constitutional presidency down the throat of the powerless Pakistani nation. You watch, in Pakistan's history, he will always be remembered as an unprofessional, rogue, disobedient, adulterer of the constitution, liberal fascist and a coward person.

He has undoubtedly earned a very unique position in the history of Pakistan, no one like him came before, and no one like him will ever come after (InshaAllah).
 
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Musharaff .. But the guy also made some serious mistakes . Though he greatly enhanced Pakistan's Conventional capabilities right under the Yanks....!
 
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First of all i do not support any dictator!

BUT

It is stupid, irrational, bewakoof, whatnot to say that

Worst democracy is better than the best dictatorship.

The yankees have achieved a lot! It is completely FOOLISH, BLIND PATRIOTISM to say that United States of America has a democratic government! Democracy is not just giving rights to the people.
West gave certain rights to their people. Their courts for people like us are free....but there is a difference between "giving rights" and "democracy"

What is a true democracy?
The one west tells us or the one "people" want!

Let me tell you something!
If there was a true democracy in U.S. than there "wouldnt" be any reason for the U.S. to go on 10's of wars including covert operations in past 100 years. In a true democracy people like to interact making less chances of wars but unfortunately we always say that...ohh politicians/army generals are very smart etc!
but we fail to understand that they are not smart in fact we are bunch of stupid people....

If a dictatorship like Hitler (his economic view) is considered..I believe his dictatorship was 1000 times better than democratic governments like U.S., Pakistan, India etc

Don't you see the track records of the dictators in Pakistan's history?

Very simple...
Is it a coincidence??

Ayub came (first native Army Chief)>>> 1965 war
Zia (appointed as army chief when other senior generals was left alone) >>> 1971 war
Musharaf (same story..other senior generals were left alone) >>> kargal, WOT etc

The part "other senior general were left alone"...Is it a coincidence that we fought every war when other generals were left alone and U.S. was an ally.... when the generals marched towards Islamabad saying we will fight against Kafirs..but their biggest supporters were Mushriks...

Best/achieving/ethical dictatorship is 1000 times better than the BEST democracy.


i have asked a simple question and that is whose policies are better?

it has nothing to do with either dictatorship is better or democracy?

so please if you think one was better than the others in terms of policies for the country, just vote for him or on the other hand you can vote for the least worse person out of the three, if you think they were all worse.

btw thanks for your participation

regards
 
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thank you guys for your responses and i really appreciate all of your s active participation in this poll.

keep your opinions coming, please

regards

sincerely
 
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My two Cents worth of spin:

1. Ayub -- The worst! He had the best chance to change the destiny of Pakistan. West was bending backwords to support us -- there was no need for the war with India. Things changed from there on. He had the best chance and took decisions that later on broke Pakistan.

2. Zia -- If we can give Gwader to China (non muslims) we could have negotiated with USSR for a suitable agreement if we take the argument of the race to "Warm Water's" by Soviet Union for the invasion of Afghanistan. We are all suffering from this and the very existance of Pakistan is at stake now. Thank you Zia Sahib, may Allah grant you a place in heaven!!!

3. Musharraf -- Made mistakes (the only one of significance was the "Chief Justice" issue). I do not belive the argument of bending infront of US -- there ws no choice but to do an about turn. Overall, he was better than the two others in:
a. Openning up the media -- If there is hope for Pakistan in future than this pillar can help straighten it up.
b. Local Bodies -- tried to deliver and in most some cases did deliver at the grass roots level. The people had some one to hold accountable. The need is to remove the kinks and strengthen the system.
c. Played China against USA. That is why US was not very happy with him.
d. NADRA/NAB/etc. -- on an average less corruption during his overall tenure barring the last 12 months if we compare tht last eighteen months of the present government
e. Clean and fair elections -- none of the other two did.
f. Despite severe problems, did try to get the best available hardware for the Millitary from allover the place. Most local R&D efforts during his tenure and look China policy got a filip.

However, dictators are not the solution but need to check out Singapore, Malaysia, & and to certain extent, Indonesia. What we need is a benevolant dictator -- our temprament as a nation can not tolerate democracy.

My opinion!
 
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Guys

Some members have voted for Gen Ayub Khan. Please can someone eleborate the reasons/good policies of Gen Ayub Khan which led these memebers to vote for him.

i am not questioning their vote, i am more or less interested in knowing about Gen Ayub khan and his policies since i do not know much about him.

thanks in advance

regards
 
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My two Cents worth of spin:

1. Ayub -- The worst! He had the best chance to change the destiny of Pakistan. West was bending backwords to support us -- there was no need for the war with India. Things changed from there on. He had the best chance and took decisions that later on broke Pakistan.

2. Zia -- If we can give Gwader to China (non muslims) we could have negotiated with USSR for a suitable agreement if we take the argument of the race to "Warm Water's" by Soviet Union for the invasion of Afghanistan. We are all suffering from this and the very existance of Pakistan is at stake now. Thank you Zia Sahib, may Allah grant you a place in heaven!!!

3. Musharraf -- Made mistakes (the only one of significance was the "Chief Justice" issue). I do not belive the argument of bending infront of US -- there ws no choice but to do an about turn. Overall, he was better than the two others in:
a. Openning up the media -- If there is hope for Pakistan in future than this pillar can help straighten it up.
b. Local Bodies -- tried to deliver and in most some cases did deliver at the grass roots level. The people had some one to hold accountable. The need is to remove the kinks and strengthen the system.
c. Played China against USA. That is why US was not very happy with him.
d. NADRA/NAB/etc. -- on an average less corruption during his overall tenure barring the last 12 months if we compare tht last eighteen months of the present government
e. Clean and fair elections -- none of the other two did.
f. Despite severe problems, did try to get the best available hardware for the Millitary from allover the place. Most local R&D efforts during his tenure and look China policy got a filip.

However, dictators are not the solution but need to check out Singapore, Malaysia, & and to certain extent, Indonesia. What we need is a benevolant dictator -- our temprament as a nation can not tolerate democracy.

My opinion!


thank you for your participation. from your last post, i guess you vote goes to musharaf, isnt it? please also vote in the posted poll (top of the page, where you can see th results of the poll) as well, in case you did not. thanks.

regards
 
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Zia was best among them he wasnt too bad for nation as Mushi and Auyb was.....I remember that people were crying on roads when he was killed in plain crash.
 
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