GDP is not going down, No Slow Growth in PAKISTAN Says Chairman FBR Shabbar Zaidi

[ziaulislam]

First, Sudan and syria both are richer than you , right now the problems are wars and corruption not money itself there. Before coming up with suggestions which you dont have any clue about, first go and study in detail about your references.

Tell me, people in which country pays 30 to 40 percent tax? And kindly bother to look at the income of their middle and upper middle class. The minimum wage in such countries is 1500 dollars few have more few have less. Their middle class or white collar workers earns 40 - 60 k a year, forget about the upper class. Some countries have social security systems where you get a sum from the government every month ? What will the people of pakistan get in return? Will the government abolish the heavy taxes on every consumer product ? mobile , telephone bills, electricity , petrol , food items etc etc etc ? will we get a social security ? will we get infrastructure like the developed countries ? Or you just want people to pay tax so the people in the system has money to loot ? Do you think that pakistani people trust their system ? If they did they would already have started paying. Its rather easier said than being done , Manipulated numbers dont prove any thing, Your suggestions are always good but your comparisons are always wrong and a suggestion without solution to problem is worthless.

Stop comparing the systems of developed countries to ours , because the comparison itself is criminal.

Okay yup south sudan is in fun, and Syria has no refugee crisis..you are not uneducated, i doubt you are an Idiot , so how can you ignore the fact that half of syrian population is displaced??..i mean something is wrong in your head??..

Developed countries use to tax 30% long before they were developed.

Hell colonizier british were taxing us more pre partition ..such lack of common sense and general knowledge is nothing but a desire not to pay tax..Pakistanis can decide what ever they want.. its a democrasy but than dont complain ..sooner or later the country will collapse once it maximize its credit or end up in revolution led by the poor who are actually taxed higher

 

[Gorgin Khan]

Okay yup south sudan is in fun, and Syria has no refugee crisis..you are not uneducated, i doubt you are an Idiot , so how can you ignore the fact that half of syrian population is displaced??..i mean something is wrong in your head??..

Developed countries use to tax 30% long before they were developed.

Hell colonizier british were taxing us more pre partition ..such lack of common sense and general knowledge is nothing but a desire not to pay tax..Pakistanis can decide what ever they want.. its a democrasy but than dont complain ..sooner or later the country will collapse once it maximize its credit or end up in revolution led by the poor who are actually taxed higher

My head is sound enough to ask reasonable questions. For your arguments why should we compare ourselves to syria and sudan in first place ? why not malaysia , bangladesh a recent example , china all of these countries got freedom in same time frame or later ? i will not mention the oil rich countries because then you will say they have oil. The reality is that these governments worked for their people and the people returned in shape of taxes. With the systems made for ridiculing people and making it headache for them to go through all this bureaucracy where nepotism and corruption is a daily routine. How can it be expected from the people to pay taxes ? for your reference . Do you have any idea how much money a custom inspector earns with corrupt practices daily in Pakistani dry ports? and there are trillion more places where every person knows whats happening. People are not stupid no matter how much we argue.

Reality check No government will succeed in restoring that confidence. Because it was never an agenda, doubling , tripping of the tax revenue can only happen when prejudice is removed by the government by offering something in return. Its a very Harsh Reality! Otherwise its just taxing people so the system and corrupt practices can get more fat.

Hell colonizer imposed tax at 30 % rate on their people but i will tell you that hell those colonizer were still richer and developed than you even in those times. So makes sense.Now if you are still comparing present to to a colonial era then argument ends here.

People are still paying taxes and will pay but what you are saying is only reasonable when the income is high enough, and the system works for people and the country not for the sake of sustaining the system itself.

 

[1Paki$tani]

Nonsence


state isnt that feeble or pus.sy .

what you mention are a few sheep and loopholes.


i know a factory owner in lahore, they pay input tax on raw materials imported from china ( cant avoid that ) , they pay income tax against employee salaries and benefits . they are paying 19 percent tax on electric bills.

the tax you talk about is the 'jagga tax' on the above company's profit AFTER tax . and NO ONE pays that, not even google and facebook.

Seriously..

1. The input tax they pay they receive credit for that and they than offset that from the collection as the end payer of those taxes is the end consumer. however if the is paying more in custom duties that also is not a problem.

2. the income tax that is being paid for the employees is not from his pocket. Its part of the employees salary and they pay tax as required and the payer of those taxes are the employees whereas the employer is just withholding that on behalf of the government to submit that to the government.. so why is he seeking credit for that. its not his money.

As for the bit about google or Facebook. what you have states i load of crap. they all pay taxes on the profit and that is how the world taxation system works. Major payer of taxes to the governments are corporation. They like any business make profit and must pay tax.

Google, apple or Facebook or other MNC use crafty accounting to reduce tax in one country and pay tax in the country which will give them lower tax threshold.

Recently Singapore is one example. But still the companies pay taxes.

 

[Fracker]

Really??

There are two sets of problems with our taxation system.

1. All of the tax mentioned above are collected by the Companies or business and it should thereafter be passed on to the government. However, the companies collect this massive amount of tax but under report their sale or simply dont pay up the tax.

Thus though average joe might pay all this tax it does not end up in government's pockets as it should. So there is collection problem.

Neither he nor PTI government is lying about it.

Need to get rid of your tunnel vision where you seems to find all ill in PTI government. Good luck when PML N or PPP come in.

2. There is problem with our income taxation system. Only 1 percent of our population pays tax.

I know countless of people who earn above 50laks a year yet pay zero tax on it. in Australia income of $50,000 (=50lakhs) attracts tax of about $7,797.00 or 7.7 lakhs.

Similarly income of 5 crores or $500k has income tax of $198k or 1.98 crores. Why am I quoting this. well because (a) people dont want to pay income tax and have massive collection problem. (b) when they want to pay they dont want to pay the right amount right share.

The figure of 5 cror is valid because many tv anchors earn that much or more yet when they are asked to pay income of few lakhs they were crying out. I have called few of them out on twitter on what they should actually be paying.

So stop spreading illogical and crap without going into details and substance of the problem. We are nation of free loaders. I saw people complaining how beauty parlour in Karachi are poor and we should not tax them. Has anyone been to one or paid for one? they charge arm and leg. Any decent one would charge over 5k for small session and those who are regarded as best charge 50k for small session. All that is not taxed.

1% is also a fake number, if I say there are 16 million filers then it comes to atleast 6-7% of total population, the population where every 2 person earn for 10 people. The population where average income is 150K while minimum taxable money is 400k (means 70% are not even eligible to pay taxes), on the top 65% population linked with agriculture which is not taxable. These government just fool common Pakistanis to squeeze them further.

 

[1Paki$tani]

1% is also a fake number, if I say there are 16 million filers then it comes to atleast 6-7% of total population, the population where every 2 person earn for 10 people. The population where average income is 150K while minimum taxable money is 400k (means 70% are not even eligible to pay taxes), on the top 65% population linked with agriculture which is not taxable. These government just fool common Pakistanis to squeeze them further.

The tax filers are of many kind which includes individuals and companies.

Now 1% is somewhere close enough to the individual filers. It could be more but even if it is still 7% that is still not enough. we need this number to be over 50%. Nothing comes for free and same applies to government services. You have 3 options.

1. pay taxes and have services available.
2. obtain loans and have services available but not sustainable in the long run and will lead to financial crisis etc
3. pay no tax and have no services available and make it user pay system which will include government services.

You would want number 1 as 3 is out of question as those with wealth will have that available to them and those that dont will not.

 

[Fracker]

The tax filers are of many kind which includes individuals and companies.

Now 1% is somewhere close enough to the individual filers. It could be more but even if it is still 7% that is still not enough. we need this number to be over 50%. Nothing comes for free and same applies to government services. You have 3 options.

1. pay taxes and have services available.
2. obtain loans and have services available but not sustainable in the long run and will lead to financial crisis etc
3. pay no tax and have no services available and make it user pay system which will include government services.

You would want number 1 as 3 is out of question as those with wealth will have that available to them and those that dont will not.

Read again, I clearly explained why it is not possible why it can't grow beyond this it might even touch 10% but more then that will not be possible.

You might argue why a lower income or agriculture business holder don't file the income tax, is related to education and benefits. Which will not change untill government attitude is changed

Current government attitude is absolutely same infact worst towards Pakistanis. They only care about filling up their own empty pockets.

Ps: 16 million filers equates to 7% of total population. So individuals income tax is 7% not 1%. PTI has bad habit about lying and exaggerating the numbers.

Edit: I guess I wasn't clear on numbers.

Pakistan's 13% population is above earning age, and 50% are below 24 means only 37% can earn. Out of 37% 70% earn below minimum taxable amount i.e. 400k (500k after new budget). Which means 11.5% is above 400k. And 65% population linked with agriculture the number even come further down. and 5% lives abroad who are not also taxable.

 

[The Accountant]

Nonsence


state isnt that feeble or pus.sy .

what you mention are a few sheep and loopholes.


i know a factory owner in lahore, they pay input tax on raw materials imported from china ( cant avoid that ) , they pay income tax against employee salaries and benefits . they are paying 19 percent tax on electric bills.

the tax you talk about is the 'jagga tax' on the above company's profit AFTER tax . and NO ONE pays that, not even google and facebook.

If ypu have zero knowledge on the subject then you should keep ypur mouth shit rather than claiming shit

 

[GumNaam]

He is

He is right...

Even large brands in Pakistan don't declare their sale honestly... More than 50 %economy is undocumented

corrections...more like 80% of the economy is undocumented and given the crooked thugs in the parliament (minus IK) its probably a good thing!

anybody have a link to his full interview?

 

[nahtanbob]

Developed countries use to tax 30% long before they were developed.

USA did not have federal income tax until 1909

 

[GumNaam]

found it...

 

[blueazure]

Seriously..

1. The input tax they pay they receive credit for that and they than offset that from the collection as the end payer of those taxes is the end consumer. however if the is paying more in custom duties that also is not a problem.

2. the income tax that is being paid for the employees is not from his pocket. Its part of the employees salary and they pay tax as required and the payer of those taxes are the employees whereas the employer is just withholding that on behalf of the government to submit that to the government.. so why is he seeking credit for that. its not his money.

As for the bit about google or Facebook. what you have states i load of crap. they all pay taxes on the profit and that is how the world taxation system works. Major payer of taxes to the governments are corporation. They like any business make profit and must pay tax.

Google, apple or Facebook or other MNC use crafty accounting to reduce tax in one country and pay tax in the country which will give them lower tax threshold.

Recently Singapore is one example. But still the companies pay taxes.

1. another moron sitting in west, 6000 miles away and lecturing about pakistan tax laws

please go and ask the textile exporters / surgical good exporters and corporations about their tax claim refunds stuck in FBR goods for 4 years , what a joke really


2. salary to employees not from his pocket ??? are u high on something ?? where does the salary come from then ??? are you even literate ? ?


3. google, facebook ,apple all have offshore entities and offices ( ireland and other tax havens etc) where they 'optimize tax' . pl go and research something. apple was even caught doing it and had to pay fines

If ypu have zero knowledge on the subject then you should keep ypur mouth shit rather than claiming shit

calls him self the ' accountant '

has typos littering in his post

kiddo , when you have done shitting your nappy and have grown a pair to write more than 2 lines , then come to me.. i have blown to smithereens many trolls like you over the years.

......

the government is like a bum a$$ friend who borrows 100 USD from you...

takes you out for a beer after 1 year and calls it even

 

[War Thunder]

So he's following the PTI practice of lying about the economy. I think this dawn article summarizes the problem nicely:

so says your illogical ignorant mind who has no idea of what they guy is talking about in the first place, except jumping in with your usual hate for the PTI.

 

[1Paki$tani]

1. another moron sitting in west, 6000 miles away and lecturing about pakistan tax laws

please go and ask the textile exporters / surgical good exporters and corporations about their tax claim refunds stuck in FBR goods for 4 years , what a joke really


2. salary to employees not from his pocket ??? are u high on something ?? where does the salary come from then ??? are you even literate ? ?


3. google, facebook ,apple all have offshore entities and offices ( ireland and other tax havens etc) where they 'optimize tax' . pl go and research something. apple was even caught doing it and had to pay fines

Is that all. I will not insult you with anything.

1. Read your statements before you comment next time. Initially you started off with problem with paying taxes and now you come to the point of issues with FBR. quoting you below.

"shabbar zaidi is lying and a charlatan. the problem is not tax collection, the problem is that the PTI govt is PUSS.Y"

So you are indirectly admitting that we have problem with our taxation system that requires fixing including implementation (ie issue of refunds stuck). Make up your mind.

2. You need to educate yourself. The taxes on wages are not paid by the employer but rather employees:

example: if my salary is 50 k rupees a month than my employer will be out of pocket 50k a month. Now if the tax law requires an employee to pay as an example 12k in tax. Than my employer is required to withhold 12k in taxes and pay me 38k.

There employer is in no worst position as the taxes are being paid by the employee. The only job the employer is doing is withholding that amount and later sending it to FBR.

So how does this money come from employer. its employees wages and that is where the tax comes from.


3. yes they pay taxes though reduced taxes. I know what I am talking about perhaps you need to learn quite a lot more about this. Google, Facebook or other MNC use ofshore entities to shift their in come to a low tax bracket country thus they pay less tax than what they would pay in their actual home country. But end result they pay taxes whether they do it in USA or in tax heavens but they pay. They might not pay 30% or what ever the new tax in usa is now but pay 12.5 in ireland etc.

But you said that

"the tax you talk about is the 'jagga tax' on the above company's profit AFTER tax . and NO ONE pays that, not even google and facebook. "

key words here:

jagga tax, no one pays.

You are are clearly wrong as you now admit that they pay lesser amount. So why cannot we charge taxes on profits and why you call it jagga tax..

 

[blueazure]

Is that all. I will not insult you with anything.

1. Read your statements before you comment next time. Initially you started off with problem with paying taxes and now you come to the point of issues with FBR. quoting you below.

"shabbar zaidi is lying and a charlatan. the problem is not tax collection, the problem is that the PTI govt is PUSS.Y"

So you are indirectly admitting that we have problem with our taxation system that requires fixing including implementation (ie issue of refunds stuck). Make up your mind.

2. You need to educate yourself. The taxes on wages are not paid by the employer but rather employees:

example: if my salary is 50 k rupees a month than my employer will be out of pocket 50k a month. Now if the tax law requires an employee to pay as an example 12k in tax. Than my employer is required to withhold 12k in taxes and pay me 38k.

There employer is in no worst position as the taxes are being paid by the employee. The only job the employer is doing is withholding that amount and later sending it to FBR.

So how does this money come from employer. its employees wages and that is where the tax comes from.


3. yes they pay taxes though reduced taxes. I know what I am talking about perhaps you need to learn quite a lot more about this. Google, Facebook or other MNC use ofshore entities to shift their in come to a low tax bracket country thus they pay less tax than what they would pay in their actual home country. But end result they pay taxes whether they do it in USA or in tax heavens but they pay. They might not pay 30% or what ever the new tax in usa is now but pay 12.5 in ireland etc.

But you said that

"the tax you talk about is the 'jagga tax' on the above company's profit AFTER tax . and NO ONE pays that, not even google and facebook. "

key words here:

jagga tax, no one pays.

You are are clearly wrong as you now admit that they pay lesser amount. So why cannot we charge taxes on profits and why you call it jagga tax..

you are quoting yourself in every post and re validating my points .

facts on the ground are this - and im a victim ( rather indirectly ) of the crooked, corrupt and broken , inefficient tax system of Pakistan.


1. small business, small still mill owners, small textile groups DO NOT get their input tax refunded from the sharks at FBR ., big companies get away with making offshore FZE companies and then hire strong lawyers to muscle their way . not for small companies . im sure you never had any experience with the crooks at FBR .

2. there are TWO parallel tax systems in pakistan . federal and provincial ( thanks to 18th amendment) . my company , installing a power project in sindh had to pay federal and PROVINCIAL sales tax on the services. as a result, our profitability is nil . no where in the world this happens . and our refunds are stuck too

next time, we are moving completely offshore and we will PAY nothing to government . period .

3. no idea about the salary conjecture you said. salaries comes from companies books


i dont have to prove anything or 'win' this argument , fact is, we pay massive duties, input on materials and massive taxes on utilities and still the govt want to tax our actual profits... sorry ,, aint happening ! with the advent of technology , easy offshore access and the coming of crypto currencies, FBR will soon be begging for taxes, just like IK did yesterday ..


good luck with your tax theories sir

 

[The Accountant]

1. another moron sitting in west, 6000 miles away and lecturing about pakistan tax laws

please go and ask the textile exporters / surgical good exporters and corporations about their tax claim refunds stuck in FBR goods for 4 years , what a joke really


2. salary to employees not from his pocket ??? are u high on something ?? where does the salary come from then ??? are you even literate ? ?


3. google, facebook ,apple all have offshore entities and offices ( ireland and other tax havens etc) where they 'optimize tax' . pl go and research something. apple was even caught doing it and had to pay fines




calls him self the ' accountant '

has typos littering in his post

kiddo , when you have done shitting your nappy and have grown a pair to write more than 2 lines , then come to me.. i have blown to smithereens many trolls like you over the years.

......

the government is like a bum a$$ friend who borrows 100 USD from you...

takes you out for a beer after 1 year and calls it even

So what you have done to prove your point that income tax is jagga tax and salary tax and sales tax are out of pocket of business man ?

You started calling names and vulgar discussion ?

The reality is the criminals like you are the one who are involved in tax theft and should be immediately be taken from all the government benefits such as passports, excess to roads, airports, pathways, water, NICs and all type of district municipal facilities. Even mosques in you pray (if you do) are on government allocated lands. Only then you will realize that the services which you tax evaders enjoying for free are important to you.

Now you can keep shouting but we Pakistani will beat the shit out of you tax evaders and take all the due tax by confiscating your black income . Do whatever you can besides starting vulgar discussion because I am going to report your post to the mods if you again start behaving like a spoil kid who has no point but to keep up on the top discussion starts vulgar discussions ...