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Gaza-Israel Conflict | October 2023

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Qatar envoy in Washington meets with families of Israeli hostages


representative of the Qatari government met for the first time since the outbreak of the war with families of Israelis held hostage in Gaza.

Qatar's ambassador in Washington, Mashal al-Thani, met with Avihai Brodetz, a member of Kibbutz Kfar Aza, whose wife, Hagar, and their three children Ofri,10; Yuval, 8; and Oriya, 4, were kidnapped to the Gaza Strip. Brodetz thanked the ambassador for the significant part

Qatar is playing in efforts to free the hostages. "As a parent, a father of three children held by Hamas in Gaza, I hope

Qatar will continue its efforts to immediately return home my wife and three children, and the more than 30 children held hostage by Hamas


About 30 children were taken hostage by Hamas militants. Their families wait in agony



 
Samual Huntington’s book ‘Clash of Civilizations’ made that point, that all the civilizations have a central country except Islam. The Muslim world is split into 57 countries, Arabs are split into 22 countries and there is no leader among them.

A few Muslim countries would need to get together to form the core of an Islamic union. Maybe Turkey, Iran, Pakistan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Indonesia and Malaysia.

Even if we can have Turkey, Iran, Pakistan, and Egypt that will be enough to get started. But it will require overthrowing illegal dictatorships in Egypt and Pakistan.

After seeing Muslim women and children being slaughtered by the Anglo-Zionists I hope that every single Muslim will start working towards that goal.
Very true. But I dont see Saudi and Egypt in this group. They have along way to go.

If we accept that to have a country you need a global power to approve you. What did the British do in 1948? created 2 countries. Or proposed 2 be created. If the Arabs had realised their place in the world and accepted that they dont make decisions, we would now have a Palestine.

Arab reaction to Britain drawing borders was "War" when it should have been "Holy shit. the British are actually giving us a country on 50% of our land, AWESOME!!!"

It was a missed opportunity born out of arrogance.

I am not concerned about Palestine, even if there are no Palestinians living there, even if they re all kicked out, once a Muslim world power emerges, a Palestine will be established on some land in that area within a year or two. I think it's very short sighted to fight from such a position of weakness and yet reject peace that is offered to you.

Had Arafat accepted some sort of peace any peace it would be just so very temporary because a Muslim word power is bound to emerge within 40 years. it's just a blip on the time scale. And the whole equation would change.

As an example, the polish could have fought the Soviets for 40 years. and left their country like Ethiopia. All they had to do was wait it out and they did.

All I see is just so many miscalculations by the Arabs.
 
Afghanistan was liberated from USA without a global power at their back. Secondly, I have asked Palestinians to rely on themselves and not on Hezbollah or the Iranians. I have suggested to expand the war to the West Bank and inside Israel.

Understand what is correct.

The modern-age Islamic world is split on the lines of nation-states having distinct interests and sectarian issues. Muslims are unable to reconnect with each other due to multiple reasons. Several Islamic countries compete with each other for influence and power and some seek assistance from foreign powers for protection and other reasons.

Some in the Middle East attempted to establish a caliphate not long ago. All could see what became of the ISIL movement when American Air Power was brought to bear against it in recent years (2014 - 2021). ISIL was able to draw people from different countries to serve its ends but this wasn't enough. The caliphate model flopped. There is a need to reflect on this war and development and figure out what to do. But many are distracted by questionable narratives that are floated around intentionally by certain quarters.

The fundamental challenge is how to reconnect with each other in ways that can be of benefit to Islamic world.
 
We are not bothered by your propaganda. So there is no need to write essays here.
I am taking about re-connection but look at your response. I try to look at facts and developments in correct manner unlike your type who can talk big from a distance and comment on matters without understanding ground realities. Tell your champion Taliban to go and liberate Palestine if they can. Let's see if Taliban are as strong as you assume them to be. But how will they? They themselves made a deal with the Americans. Taliban are mostly good at killing other Muslims though. I give you this.
 

Muslims are unable to reconnect with each other due to multiple reasons. Several Islamic countries compete with each other for influence and power and some seek assistance from foreign powers for protection and other reasons.

Turkey and Pakistan would be enough. But how would you bring the political systems and methods of governance together. it seems vary vary hard.

It will probably just develop by itself. Or Countried will now and attain this power by themselves.

I think Turkish strategy in Azerbaijan is very good. Turkey has expanded to Cyprus, To Syria. And now perhaps to Azerbaijan. In terms of troop deployments at first and maybe a loose political union later.

Iran has seen its own expansion, controlling militaries on the lands of different countries. Syria, Yemen, Lebanon, Iraq. This is also a similar expansion. Perhaps it will organically grow into a world power. When you control 150 million people over a vast area, you might just become a world power.
 
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Forget false translation videos. We're talking about footage. And it's from bodycams,CCTVs and cell-phones of people there. Cell-phones from Hamas men too I think. Why is it that hard to believe,that a group like Hamas,watch it I'm not saying a group like Hizbollah or Fatah,but a group like Hamas,did such atrocities?

Their own ideology and rhetoric is similar to other radical Sunni groups who did the same things in Syria in the 2010s. And elsewhere.


Because it's not that hard to figure out they treated them if not nicely,then at least with basic decency as hostages for PR reasons and maybe after they were advised by mediator countries like Qatar,Saudi Arabia or Iran. I heard,that 85 year-old woman who got released,was treated well,however when she was abducted and while being transported to Gaza,she was treated badly. So maybe the "caretakers" were different from the "raiders".


Videos already have been identified as genuine by Human Rights Watch and reporters from different countries. I find it extremely ironic that even when presented with virtual evidence,certain Muslims still decide to deny it. And this isn't just about babies. We're talking about kids too,we're talking about innocent people,unarmed people,we're talking about families or random individuals. Cars passing by and being gunned down,women shot,bodies burned.


And until I manage to find a raw version of that compilation or at least some of the videos not released before,check these:


Of course,how many Palestinian families have experienced losses of their children? Countless. So many throughout the years. But what's the problem here? I'll tell you:

1.The complete denial of many Muslims on the forum and elsewhere to condemn or identify Hamas' attack on civilians as haram.
2.The difference in the image and the message it sends to the world: Hamas gunmen holding a family hostage at gunpoint,inside their house,after having killed on daughter. Israeli civilians are lesser than Palestinians? Palestinian civilians killed are not the same as Israeli? We're talking about people on both sides. Celebrating their deaths is something bad. And we're not talking about soldiers fighting at war.

Many forum members, including myself, have openly expressed since the beginning of this thread and also in other Palestine related threads that - it is unacceptable to kill unarmed civilians. Islam has clear guidance for warfare and explicitly prohibits killing of elderly, women and children. Raping is haram. I have seen @RescueRanger call out at the very beginning that he did not like the looks of a lady from a video footage, as he suspected foul play. Beyond PDF members, Muslim scholars in the real world openly denounced killing of civilians.

My personal opinion is that Hamas should have simply stuck to targeting military bases and any armed settlers. We should not forget that Israeli men and women have mandatory military service and are able to carry guns. Thereby are considered as combatants.

I understand why Hamas made such a desperate move. I don't completely agree with the way they executed it from the perspective of Islam, but from a purely strategic POV, it made sense. In this one desperate move they were able to stall the normalization process with Arab nations and Israel. They brought up the issue of Palestine into everyone's attention. Israel's treatment of Palestinians in Gaza as sub-human prisoners. No freedom of movement, limited rights to basic necessities like water and electricity that too at the whims of Israel. In a constant state of seige against all UN conventions. Constant land grabbing in the West bank. Killing Palestinian civilians and children even without any active conflict. Palestinians are slowly pushed towards complete eradication, while the rest of the world, especially the Arab world is dead silent.

This year until June, 28 Palestinian children were shot and murdered by IDF. Without the presence of any active conflict. I am not even bringing up the deaths of Palestinian civilians and I am quoting an Israeli source. What response does the Zionists have for this? Where is the remorse and apology for this?

How many of these incidents did you see get covered in mainstream media? Where was the outrage of the so called civilized world?

I asked two American Zionists in this very thread the very same question - they just hid in their cave and did not respond. I won't even bother asking the Israelis this question, as they are busy enjoying their blood lust.


People are extremely emotional in this issue and there is a lot of anger. and understandbly so.

There are plenty of coverage and support for Israeli deaths and their stories in mainstream media. Yet they conveniently overlook and in some cases outright deny the genocide of Palestinians. What's the death ratio of Palestinians and Israelies in the last 20 years? Now compare the coverage you saw for Palestinian deaths vs Israeli deaths in the mainstream media. We both know the answer, it is disproportionately in favour of Israel.

Even the language changes when news is presented.

This has been going on for decades. This is by the very same Western world who pretends to be the Moral police of the world. Would you not be extremely angered if you were faced with such double standards? Of course you would be.

If you want Muslims to condone Israeli civilian deaths, then there should be reciprocity. I can show you plenty of Muslim scholars and public figures condemning civilian deaths. But do we see the same level of condemnation from the Zionists? No, we see denial. If anyone tries to condemn, they get shunned and cancelled. We see Israelies mocking Palestinians in social media. Mocking mourning Palestinian parents. Mocking the death of Palestinian children. How evil is that?


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Now put yourself in the shoes of a Muslim who is seeing this for years and years, over and over again. Would you be mourning Israeli deaths or would you be angered and rooting for Palestinian liberation? That's exactly what you are seeing here in this thread. It is easy to judge from the sidelines but it is entirely different when you are in people's shoes.

Anyway, no point discussing this anymore as we will be going back and forth in circles. You can't convince me to change my mind, nor can I yours. So let's agree to disagree.
 



Turkey and Pakistan would be enough. But how would you bring the political systems and methods of governance together. it seems vary vary hard.

It will probably just develop by itself. Or Countried will now and attain this power by themselves.

I think Turkish strategy in Azerbaijan is very good. Turkey has expanded to Cyprus, To Syria. And now perhaps to Azerbaijan. In terms of troop deployments at first and maybe a loose political union later.

Iran has seen its own expansion, controlling militaries on the lands of different countries. Syria, Yemen, Lebanon, Iraq. This is also a similar expansion. Perhaps it will organically grow into a world power. When you control 150 million people over a vast area, you might just become a world power.
I am not sure. Turkey is competing with Saudi and Iran for influence and power in the Middle East. Pakistan is locked in war with India due to Kashmir and have economic problems. Then there is the issue of reconciling beliefs.

There might be an organic revolution or re-connecting movement at some point but this sounds like a theory in the present. God knows best.
 
Lying bitch. Show us the videos… If Israelis actually had these videos, they’d be playing them everywhere because Israelis are masters in presenting themselves as the victims.

( watch with discretion )



There are some red lines that should not be crossed.

A decent person can support Palestinains yet denounce this at the same time. This is not the right path to freedom. This is the right path to hell.

In what is this diffrent from ISIS ?

Palestinains should seriously consder after this , if Hamas are worthy of representing the Plestinain people .in what I also agree is , a just cause.

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