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Game-Changing Chinese Missile To Pak Could Dent Navy's BrahMos Advantage

The range isn't the problem. And it's a different story if you actually have the kind of ISR assets that can detect and engage the IN from 400Km away.

But it's either the speed and/or stealth of the missile that matters. Right now you have neither. The IN can hard kill everything in your inventory, including all the Ra'ads, Baburs, Harpoons and C-802s.





Any evidence for your claims or just more hot air and made up stories? If what you say is real please remember to post the links here. If not then they are more lies.
 
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The range isn't the problem. And it's a different story if you actually have the kind of ISR assets that can detect and engage the IN from 400Km away.

But it's either the speed and/or stealth of the missile that matters. Right now you have neither. The IN can hard kill everything in your inventory, including all the Ra'ads, Baburs, Harpoons and C-802s.

Basically Pakistan do have publicly known capability to track ships up to 450kms but all is not publicly known when it comes to military.

Having some capability does not ensure 100% kill capability of all in coming missiles, war is not like what people think here on forums.
 
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The range isn't the problem. And it's a different story if you actually have the kind of ISR assets that can detect and engage the IN from 400Km away.

But it's either the speed and/or stealth of the missile that matters. Right now you have neither. The IN can hard kill everything in your inventory, including all the Ra'ads, Baburs, Harpoons and C-802s.

Absolutely! IN farts lightening rods out of its ***!! Get over yourselves!
 
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Sorry, but it's too little too late.

The first PN ships will start arriving only by 2021, and by then IN will have Brahmos-killers even on corvettes, let alone frigates and destroyers. The new SRSAM program from IN will see deployment of both domestic and imported SAMs that can destroy supersonic sea skimmers.

You need hypersonic capability now, which again will be countered by 2025. New SAMs are in development that will be able to stop sea skimming missiles doing speeds of mach 18+.

The incremental upgrades PN is seeing is of no threat to the IN. You are going to have to follow a big bang approach to deal with the threat IN poses. IN is preparing to deal with China after all, and is keeping pace with China's development speed. So you will have to at least match the Indian development speed, but considering the smaller numbers, Pakistan will have to exceed India's development capability in order to pose a significant challenge to the IN.

Nothing is "too late" your post is full of fairy tales and pot holes, as your navy has no response to this missile.
Your Bhramos killers are nothing but hot air and NOTHING like this has ever been used successfully in conflict. Yes you claimed to have tested a "supersonic interceptor". The only time a sea interceptor had a chance in recent years to prove itself i.e. Israeli/Hezbollah conflict the Barak failed miserably, which coincidently is the same system you have on your ships. I know their claim that it wasn't on due to IAF activity, but most people are sceptical.
Don't need hypersonic you can't intercept the missiles now or ever.
The PN is following a structured approach to prevent your entry into Pakistan's territorial waters in the event of a conflict.
You cannot deal with China and never will be able to. You are too small, outnumbered massively and have a budget less than a third of the Chinese military. They operate more modern frigates than you do entire surface ships, most assessments have your navy being steamrolled fast, not just now but also in the future. Your development is no where near the pace of the PLAN and the future PLAN will be a behemoth.
The only advantage you have is geography which could somewhat negate some the PLAN's huge numbers and technological advantage, and he also brings in Japan and the US which is a big if. The bottom line is India can somewhat fend off a smaller assault, but if the PLAN comes in full force then the IN faces complete destruction, but that's with a BIG if the USN wants to intervene which is doubtful. Here is a neutral assessment of it;

https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/08/07/who-will-win-the-sino-indian-naval-war-of-2020/


On paper, the Indian Navy looks massively outgunned across the board. Consider: In 2020 the PLA navy will have 73 attack submarines, or “attack boats” in U.S. Navy slang, in its inventory. Attack boats are subs built to hunt other subs or pummel surface fleets from the depths. The Indian navy will operate 17 such craft in 2020. That looks like a 4:1 deficit for New Delhi.

China’s navy will also field an increasingly modern mix of 30 guided-missile destroyers (DDGs) by 2020. DDGs act as a carrier’s “shotgun,” using their missiles to fend off aerial, missile, or subsurface assault. They can also serve as capital ships in their own right, leading surface action groups against other fleets or shore targets. By comparison, the Indian navy will have a paltry eight DDGs. The PLA navy will have a mix of 92 frigates and corvettes, light combatants for duty in less menacing settings. The Indian navy will have 32 frigates and corvettes.



Which brings us to geography. India is blessed by favorable nautical geography. The subcontinent juts into the Indian Ocean, adjoining potential battlegrounds in the Bay of Bengal and Arabian Sea. Its geographical layout amplifies the advantages of the interior lines. Furthermore, New Delhi is sovereign over the Andaman and Nicobar Islands, an island chain athwart the western approaches to the Strait of Malacca. Suitably fortified with missiles, aircraft, and ships, the island chain would constitute a barrier to east-west Chinese maritime movement — enfeebling any force that ventures onto India’s turf.

Competing strategic imperatives will encumber PLA navy operations in the Indian Ocean. The overwhelming advantage on paper is misleading. The Indian navy will never feel the full weight of those numbers. PLA navy commanders cannot simply designate the entire battle fleet as an expeditionary force and send it sailing to the Indian Ocean to do battle. Doing so would expose the homeland to a formidable U.S.-Japanese fleet poised at China’s door.



Any evidence for your claims or just more hot air and made up stories? If what you say is real please remember to post the links here. If not then they are more lies.

He's one of the biggest fairy tale spinners on here. Do you remember his posts when he a Canadian scientist wrote about the potency of Pakistan's nuclear arsenal? He dismissed it all lol!
 
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Any evidence for your claims or just more hot air and made up stories? If what you say is real please remember to post the links here. If not then they are more lies.

Barak-1

Shtil-1

Those two above, India's had for nearly 2 decades now.

And this since the last 5 years.


according to indians,they have everything to destroy us before we even attack them.lol

But that's the level of enemy you are facing today. Even your latest acquisitions are not on par with what we have absorbed way more than a decade ago.

Take air defence on the new frigates for example, it's on the same level as the Delhi class ships (second video) we absorbed back in 1997.
 
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Barak-1

Shtil-1

Those two above, India's had for nearly 2 decades now.

And this since the last 5 years.




But that's the level of enemy you are facing today. Even your latest acquisitions are not on par with what we have absorbed way more than a decade ago.

Take air defence on the new frigates for example, it's on the same level as the Delhi class ships (second video) we absorbed back in 1997.




They are just youtube clips. They neither support or deny your ACTUAL claims. They mean nothing in this context. Now, WHERE is the evidence that conclusively proves that indian has naval technology that nulifies Pakistan's defence against the indian navy as per your claims?


PS Also, where is the evidence that the Pakistani navy is at the same level that india was in 1997? If it is true remember to post the links here. If not it means you are lying and making things up as usual.
 
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Barak-1

Shtil-1

Those two above, India's had for nearly 2 decades now.

And this since the last 5 years.




But that's the level of enemy you are facing today. Even your latest acquisitions are not on par with what we have absorbed way more than a decade ago.

Take air defence on the new frigates for example, it's on the same level as the Delhi class ships (second video) we absorbed back in 1997.

Of course all performed under test conditions where parameters and trajectories are known but failed in real combat.
 
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Nothing is "too late" your post is full of fairy tales and pot holes, as your navy has no response to this missile.
Your Bhramos killers are nothing but hot air and NOTHING like this has ever been used successfully in conflict. Yes you claimed to have tested a "supersonic interceptor". The only time a sea interceptor had a chance in recent years to prove itself i.e. Israeli/Hezbollah conflict the Barak failed miserably, which coincidently is the same system you have on your ships. I know their claim that it wasn't on due to IAF activity, but most people are sceptical.
Don't need hypersonic you can't intercept the missiles now or ever.
The PN is following a structured approach to prevent your entry into Pakistan's territorial waters in the event of a conflict.
You cannot deal with China and never will be able to. You are too small, outnumbered massively and have a budget less than a third of the Chinese military. They operate more modern frigates than you do entire surface ships, most assessments have your navy being steamrolled fast, not just now but also in the future. Your development is no where near the pace of the PLAN and the future PLAN will be a behemoth.
The only advantage you have is geography which could somewhat negate some the PLAN's huge numbers and technological advantage, and he also brings in Japan and the US which is a big if. The bottom line is India can somewhat fend off a smaller assault, but if the PLAN comes in full force then the IN faces complete destruction, but that's with a BIG if the USN wants to intervene which is doubtful. Here is a neutral assessment of it;

https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/08/07/who-will-win-the-sino-indian-naval-war-of-2020/


On paper, the Indian Navy looks massively outgunned across the board. Consider: In 2020 the PLA navy will have 73 attack submarines, or “attack boats” in U.S. Navy slang, in its inventory. Attack boats are subs built to hunt other subs or pummel surface fleets from the depths. The Indian navy will operate 17 such craft in 2020. That looks like a 4:1 deficit for New Delhi.

China’s navy will also field an increasingly modern mix of 30 guided-missile destroyers (DDGs) by 2020. DDGs act as a carrier’s “shotgun,” using their missiles to fend off aerial, missile, or subsurface assault. They can also serve as capital ships in their own right, leading surface action groups against other fleets or shore targets. By comparison, the Indian navy will have a paltry eight DDGs. The PLA navy will have a mix of 92 frigates and corvettes, light combatants for duty in less menacing settings. The Indian navy will have 32 frigates and corvettes.



Which brings us to geography. India is blessed by favorable nautical geography. The subcontinent juts into the Indian Ocean, adjoining potential battlegrounds in the Bay of Bengal and Arabian Sea. Its geographical layout amplifies the advantages of the interior lines. Furthermore, New Delhi is sovereign over the Andaman and Nicobar Islands, an island chain athwart the western approaches to the Strait of Malacca. Suitably fortified with missiles, aircraft, and ships, the island chain would constitute a barrier to east-west Chinese maritime movement — enfeebling any force that ventures onto India’s turf.

Competing strategic imperatives will encumber PLA navy operations in the Indian Ocean. The overwhelming advantage on paper is misleading. The Indian navy will never feel the full weight of those numbers. PLA navy commanders cannot simply designate the entire battle fleet as an expeditionary force and send it sailing to the Indian Ocean to do battle. Doing so would expose the homeland to a formidable U.S.-Japanese fleet poised at China’s door.





He's one of the biggest fairy tale spinners on here. Do you remember his posts when he a Canadian scientist wrote about the potency of Pakistan's nuclear arsenal? He dismissed it all lol!





indians always make ludicrous and ridiculous claims which they can NEVER EVER prove. It's becoming a laughing joke now. Some indians even claim that they were using the internet, satellites, submarines, fighter jets, computers etc 5,000-10,000 years ago..... :lol::

https://www.newsweek.com/minister-r...-invented-ancient-india-5000-years-ago-890567
 
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They are just youtube clips. They neither support or deny your ACTUAL claims. They mean nothing in this context. Now, WHERE is the evidence that conclusively proves that indian has naval technology that nulifies Pakistan's defence against the indian navy as per your claims?

3_wa.jpg


indians always make ludicrous and ridiculous claims which they can NEVER EVER prove. It's becoming a laughing joke now. Some indians even claim that they were using the internet, satellites, submarines, fighter jets, computers etc 5,000-10,000 years ago..... :lol::

https://www.newsweek.com/minister-r...-invented-ancient-india-5000-years-ago-890567

Yep just claims, they can intercept this, when real combat showed otherwise. They use the advantage of numbers v Pakistan i.e. India can beat Pakistan in a war, but suddenly the numbers advantage doesn't work with India, even though they are technologically and numerically inferior to the PLAN. What a joke.
 
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3_wa.jpg




Yep just claims, they can intercept this, when real combat showed otherwise. They use the advantage of numbers v Pakistan i.e. India can beat Pakistan in a war, but suddenly the numbers advantage doesn't work with India, even though they are technologically and numerically inferior to the PLAN. What a joke.



With the abnormal hatred indians have against Pakistan & the daily venom spewed against us; IF the indians could beat us in a war they would have attacked us by now. Especially since they have the backing of the West and Russia and are more than 7× bigger than us. The fact that they havn't, speaks volumes in itself. The only war indians can fight against Pakistan is talking big and blowing hot air on the internet. Nothing more.
 
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Nothing is "too late" your post is full of fairy tales and pot holes, as your navy has no response to this missile.

Since 2003,in certain regimes. Since 2014-15 in all regimes.

Your Bhramos killers are nothing but hot air and NOTHING like this has ever been used successfully in conflict.

It's never been in conflict.

The only time a sea interceptor had a chance in recent years to prove itself i.e. Israeli/Hezbollah conflict the Barak failed miserably, which coincidently is the same system you have on your ships. I know their claim that it wasn't on due to IAF activity, but most people are sceptical.

Nope. The Israelis stupidly turned off their missile systems and were floating around defenceless. An air defence system would fail only if it failed to intercept the missile while it was active. Won't count if it was turned off, along with the central radar. Rest assured, we won't be swimming around defenceless.

Otoh, you should be really worried that the C-802 could only damage the ship even after a direct hit at the waterline. And this ship is just 1200T. So one can imagine how effective it really is against much larger ships. The Rajput class will stay afloat even if punctured in multiple places. It only needs one safe compartment to remain afloat. And newer classes of ships are even more resilient.

You cannot deal with China and never will be able to. You are too small, outnumbered massively and have a budget less than a third of the Chinese military. They operate more modern frigates than you do entire surface ships, most assessments have your navy being steamrolled fast, not just now but also in the future. Your development is no where near the pace of the PLAN and the future PLAN will be a behemoth.

I'm afraid you do not know much about the subject.

It's like threatening us with 4000 F-7s from Tibet.

The only advantage you have is geography which could somewhat negate some the PLAN's huge numbers and technological advantage, and he also brings in Japan and the US which is a big if. The bottom line is India can somewhat fend off a smaller assault, but if the PLAN comes in full force then the IN faces complete destruction, but that's with a BIG if the USN wants to intervene which is doubtful. Here is a neutral assessment of it;

https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/08/07/who-will-win-the-sino-indian-naval-war-of-2020/

On paper, the Indian Navy looks massively outgunned across the board. Consider: In 2020 the PLA navy will have 73 attack submarines, or “attack boats” in U.S. Navy slang, in its inventory. Attack boats are subs built to hunt other subs or pummel surface fleets from the depths. The Indian navy will operate 17 such craft in 2020. That looks like a 4:1 deficit for New Delhi.

China’s navy will also field an increasingly modern mix of 30 guided-missile destroyers (DDGs) by 2020. DDGs act as a carrier’s “shotgun,” using their missiles to fend off aerial, missile, or subsurface assault. They can also serve as capital ships in their own right, leading surface action groups against other fleets or shore targets. By comparison, the Indian navy will have a paltry eight DDGs. The PLA navy will have a mix of 92 frigates and corvettes, light combatants for duty in less menacing settings. The Indian navy will have 32 frigates and corvettes.



Which brings us to geography. India is blessed by favorable nautical geography. The subcontinent juts into the Indian Ocean, adjoining potential battlegrounds in the Bay of Bengal and Arabian Sea. Its geographical layout amplifies the advantages of the interior lines. Furthermore, New Delhi is sovereign over the Andaman and Nicobar Islands, an island chain athwart the western approaches to the Strait of Malacca. Suitably fortified with missiles, aircraft, and ships, the island chain would constitute a barrier to east-west Chinese maritime movement — enfeebling any force that ventures onto India’s turf.

Competing strategic imperatives will encumber PLA navy operations in the Indian Ocean. The overwhelming advantage on paper is misleading. The Indian navy will never feel the full weight of those numbers. PLA navy commanders cannot simply designate the entire battle fleet as an expeditionary force and send it sailing to the Indian Ocean to do battle. Doing so would expose the homeland to a formidable U.S.-Japanese fleet poised at China’s door.

The numbers game is very childish. It's like saying the USAF will pummel IAF any day. But when do they plan on moving their air bases to India? Or do they plan on flying F-15s all the way from DC to Delhi?

They have 73 boats, we have 17, so we lose. But that's not how it works at all, because those 73 boats have to travel 5,000Km before they become of any real use. And then they need the juice to go back another 5,000Km after they are done. Google the ranges of subs and ships and whatnot.

Of course, you can argue that Chinese ships need no fuel. :lol

For any Chinese move against India at sea, they need to make significantly more investment towards their long range naval assets than they possess now. Which means their small frigates are of little use in the IOR without first setting up significant logistics support points. And no, Sri Lanka, Myanmar etc won't count. We will just pummel those countries during wartime if they do that.

Rest assured, if they enter the IOR, none of them will go back. Why you ask? It's simply because we will sink all their replenishment ships while going though the choke points. With no fuel, they will be forced abandon their own ships. Reality is harsh.

Amateurs talk numbers. Professionals talk logistics.

Also, as mentioned in the second half of the article, the PLAN's numbers advantage is irrelevant. Rest assured, in any Sino-India war, the Indian side will field more ships.

Btw, if you are still only interested in numbers, then PLAN may operate 30-40 destroyers in a few years, but IN will also operate 21 destroyer equivalent ships, including P-17 and P-17A.

He's one of the biggest fairy tale spinners on here. Do you remember his posts when he a Canadian scientist wrote about the potency of Pakistan's nuclear arsenal? He dismissed it all lol!

Too much nonsense about nukes everywhere on the internet. A dose of reality is necessary.

All you need to do is look up the NUKEMAP website and see the actual damage a nuke can cause yourself, and then think for yourself if the damage done is enough to serve its purpose. You literally need nothing else but common sense. If you are much more interested, then read "Effects of Nuclear Weapons" by Samuel Glasstone and Philip Dolan. You can get it off the internet for free. It tells you everything you need to know about nukes and their effects which even laymen can understand. At least become informed before peddling lies and misinformation.

Until you are better informed, all your posts are simply funny to more knowledgeable people.[/quote]

They are just youtube clips. They neither support or deny your ACTUAL claims. They mean nothing in this context. Now, WHERE is the evidence that conclusively proves that indian has naval technology that nulifies Pakistan's defence against the indian navy as per your claims?

The clips shown demonstrate plenty of capability, they mean everything in this context.

Pay particular attention to the HTK demonstrated in the last two clips.

PS Also, where is the evidence that the Pakistani navy is at the same level that india was in 1997? If it is true remember to post the links here. If not it means you are lying and making things up as usual.

Corrected: ...Pakistani navy will be at the same level that india was in 1997?

No. There is no such evidence yet. Once the Type 054As come to Pakistan, sometime in 2021 or so, then PN will be at the same level as what IN had on the Delhi class in 1997. Of course, it's more modern than a 1997 Delhi class, but more or less the same kind of capability upgrade as IN received at the time.

Actually, the Delhi has twice the firepower of the Type 054A and carries two helicopters, so you can actually compare the Type 054A to the Talwar class that was introduced in 2003 instead. The firepower is more or less the same, although I admit the air defence capability on Talwar will be a notch below the Type 054A until the Talwar class undergoes upgrades, which is happening as we speak.

So you will have to wait until 2021 for evidence.
 
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Since 2003,in certain regimes. Since 2014-15 in all regimes.



It's never been in conflict.



Nope. The Israelis stupidly turned off their missile systems and were floating around defenceless. An air defence system would fail only if it failed to intercept the missile while it was active. Won't count if it was turned off, along with the central radar. Rest assured, we won't be swimming around defenceless.

Otoh, you should be really worried that the C-802 could only damage the ship even after a direct hit at the waterline. And this ship is just 1200T. So one can imagine how effective it really is against much larger ships. The Rajput class will stay afloat even if punctured in multiple places. It only needs one safe compartment to remain afloat. And newer classes of ships are even more resilient.



I'm afraid you do not know much about the subject.

It's like threatening us with 4000 F-7s from Tibet.



The numbers game is very childish. It's like saying the USAF will pummel IAF any day. But when do they plan on moving their air bases to India? Or do they plan on flying F-15s all the way from DC to Delhi?

They have 73 boats, we have 17, so we lose. But that's not how it works at all, because those 73 boats have to travel 5,000Km before they become of any real use. And then they need the juice to go back another 5,000Km after they are done. Google the ranges of subs and ships and whatnot.

Of course, you can argue that Chinese ships need no fuel. :lol

For any Chinese move against India at sea, they need to make significantly more investment towards their long range naval assets than they possess now. Which means their small frigates are of little use in the IOR without first setting up significant logistics support points. And no, Sri Lanka, Myanmar etc won't count. We will just pummel those countries during wartime if they do that.

Rest assured, if they enter the IOR, none of them will go back. Why you ask? It's simply because we will sink all their replenishment ships while going though the choke points. With no fuel, they will be forced abandon their own ships. Reality is harsh.

Amateurs talk numbers. Professionals talk logistics.

Also, as mentioned in the second half of the article, the PLAN's numbers advantage is irrelevant. Rest assured, in any Sino-India war, the Indian side will field more ships.

Btw, if you are still only interested in numbers, then PLAN may operate 30-40 destroyers in a few years, but IN will also operate 21 destroyer equivalent ships, including P-17 and P-17A.



Too much nonsense about nukes everywhere on the internet. A dose of reality is necessary.

All you need to do is look up the NUKEMAP website and see the actual damage a nuke can cause yourself, and then think for yourself if the damage done is enough to serve its purpose. You literally need nothing else but common sense. If you are much more interested, then read "Effects of Nuclear Weapons" by Samuel Glasstone and Philip Dolan. You can get it off the internet for free. It tells you everything you need to know about nukes and their effects which even laymen can understand. At least become informed before peddling lies and misinformation.

Until you are better informed, all your posts are simply funny to more knowledgeable people.



The clips shown demonstrate plenty of capability, they mean everything in this context.

Pay particular attention to the HTK demonstrated in the last two clips.



Corrected: ...Pakistani navy will be at the same level that india was in 1997?

No. There is no such evidence yet. Once the Type 054As come to Pakistan, sometime in 2021 or so, then PN will be at the same level as what IN had on the Delhi class in 1997. Of course, it's more modern than a 1997 Delhi class, but more or less the same kind of capability upgrade as IN received at the time.

Actually, the Delhi has twice the firepower of the Type 054A and carries two helicopters, so you can actually compare the Type 054A to the Talwar class that was introduced in 2003 instead. The firepower is more or less the same, although I admit the air defence capability on Talwar will be a notch below the Type 054A until the Talwar class undergoes upgrades, which is happening as we speak.

So you will have to wait until 2021 for evidence.[/QUOTE]





More talking and NO evidence. It means you are making it all up. There is NO truth to what you are saying............:lol:.........can you post EVEN 1 link that ACTUALLY proves what you are saying?
 
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With the abnormal hatred indians have against Pakistan & the daily venom spewed against us; IF the indians could beat us in a war they would have attacked us by now. Especially since they have the backing of the West and Russia and are more than 7× bigger than us. The fact that they havn't, speaks volumes in itself. The only war indians can fight against Pakistan is talking big and blowing hot air on the internet. Nothing more.

No. We do not make decisions to go to war based on emotions.

And if we do go to war, it will be at a time when we can go to war like how the US did with Iraq. Basically we want to become so rich that we can wage wars with just our defence budget, without affecting our main economy. If we go to war today, even without nukes it can set India back by many years. It's entirely not worth the gamble today.

Not to mention, we are now modernising and reform. Let's at least wait until it's over since the military needs time to train once they have new equipment and new formations.

Also, as long as Pakistan is unstable, we will not go to war. So that's another added advantage for you. Meaning, we don't want to be the cause of unity in Pakistan.

For us, war is an absolute last resort, but it's not off the table.

Of course all performed under test conditions where parameters and trajectories are known but failed in real combat.

You are free to test it out. :D
 
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You cannot deal with China and never will be able to.

Atleat some Chinese think tank doesn't think so. At the time of doklam conflict, Chinese think tank had warned his government to be careful. He told that if India does naval blockade, China will not be able to deal with situation.
 
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