[Gallery] Iran - Iraq war

[Full Moon]

How many billion dollars did u Lizard eater bas*** paid to war against Iran?

With disregard to your agitation here, the serious answer to your question is as follows:

I have heard and read two different estimates for the total funding. The first one was made by Prince Khalid Bin Sultan in a 1991 documentary aired on MBC TV (a Saudi funded privte Arab TV network). He estimated the financial support of Iraq to have reached 50 Billion Dollars (if I remember correctly). Prince Khalid was a General in the Saudi army and and the eldest son of the former Minster of Defense, Prince Sultan.

The other estimate came from Dr. Ghazi Al Gosaibi, a Saudi statesman who spent nearly 43 years as a public servant holding a number of Ministries and Embassies throughout his career. He also was an author of nearly 50 books. In one of them, he estimated the number to be 26 Billion Dollars by Saudi Arabia, and 12 Billion Dollars by Kuwait. The later estimate may be more accurate given the academic and research background of Dr. Al Gosaibi. I just pulled his book from the shelf and took picture of the relevant page below.

 

[Serpentine]

A-rab , u r mad cause we killed and chopped your saudish mercenaries aren't u ?

@Serpentine , for the love of lord , teach him a lesson .

you continue to warn him and he continues to ignore 'em . if he continues i'll knock their section and there'll be another troll war .

i assume we both don't want that . so help your brother here , will u ?

Although I do know about his racism, but that particular post can't be deleted since it doesn't violate any rule. Please if you have any proper answers, write it without any insults.

You cannot silence people in this digital age dude. The world has moved on to another level of openness and you still think that this could work. I know that you, as a conservative person, admire Khomeni for his effort in reviving the Islamic values in Iran after decades of systematic secularization, and perhaps, hatred of religion. You are surly entitled to believe in that idea and defend it with your own thoughts. That doesn't mean that Khomeni was a perfect guy. Sending these kids into war was one of Khomeni Regime's faults which I highlighted here.

Provide one single proof that those kids were 'sent to front lines' by force.

Many kids even escaped the schools to join the war, not even a one single child was forced to fight in the war, if you have any documents, provide it here.

 

[rmi5]

Provide one single proof that those kids were 'sent to front lines' by force.

Many kids even escaped the schools to join the war, not even a one single child was forced to fight in the war, if you have any documents, provide it here.

It depends on how you define the immorality, and IMHO it is not just about using force.
Is the brainwashing of under age kids immoral or not? Do you really think those under age kids can logically decide on their own to go to a war?
I am not favoring anyone here. Saddam was an obvious criminal bastard, but mullahs who brainwashed those poor children and gave them china made keys(supposed to be keys for heaven doors) are criminals as well. Anyway, all of what mullahs have done on one side, but this action of mullahs cannot be forgiven.

 

[Full Moon]

Although I do know about his racism, but that particular post can't be deleted since it doesn't violate any rule. Please if you have any proper answers, write it without any insults.


Provide one single proof that those kids were 'sent to front lines' by force.

Many kids even escaped the schools to join the war, not even a one single child was forced to fight in the war, if you have any documents, provide it here.

I haven't said that they were forced to go. They were, however, permitted to go without the being asked to return, let alone being prevented from joining. By interviewing them on what I assume is a government TV, we can safely say that this is an indirect encouragement for them to keep doing what they were doing, and to less extent, encourage others to do what these kids did.

 

[Chak Bamu]

@Chak Bamu

Delete offtopic and trolls please.

I'll leave that to @Serpentine - but calling people names like you did a few posts back is not conducive to good posting. This is not your first account either.

In any case, I am too busy these days and I can not go through the whole of this thread to find out who trolled who & where. If you can not keep peace yourself, do not blame others for trolling.

 

[SALMAN F]

It depends on how you define the immorality, and IMHO it is not just about using force.
Is the brainwashing of under age kids immoral or not? Do you really think those under age kids can logically decide on their own to go to a war?
I am not favoring anyone here. Saddam was an obvious criminal bastard, but mullahs who brainwashed those poor children and gave them china made keys(supposed to be keys for heaven doors) are criminals as well. Anyway, all of what mullahs have done on one side, but this action of mullahs cannot be forgiven.

there is no such thing as the key to paradise it was a book name muftah al jannah
i think you belive much baathists propaganda

Mod edit

 

[rmi5]

there is no such thing as the key to paradise it was a book name muftah al jannah
i think you belive much baathists propaganda

?
I mean mullahs were literally giving them a key, and told children that they are keys to the doors of heaven.
What it has to do with the book Miftah Al-Jinan?!!!

 

[SALMAN F]

?
I mean mullahs were literally giving them a key, and told children that they are keys to the doors of heaven.
What it has to do with the book Miftah Al-Jinan?!!!

the key story was baathists lies didnt happen in reality there are many iraqi soldiers fought this war nobody saw any keys with dead iranian soldiers

 

[Serpentine]

It depends on how you define the immorality, and IMHO it is not just about using force.
Is the brainwashing of under age kids immoral or not? Do you really think those under age kids can logically decide on their own to go to a war?
I am not favoring anyone here. Saddam was an obvious criminal bastard, but mullahs who brainwashed those poor children and gave them china made keys(supposed to be keys for heaven doors) are criminals as well. Anyway, all of what mullahs have done on one side, but this action of mullahs cannot be forgiven.

Propaganda depends on perspective. I can say even U.S used propaganda to gain support and send soldiers for WWII, Vietnam and Iraq. But forcing children to go to war, that's a lie and everyone knows that. In my own relatives, I know children who faked their certificates and IDs to go to fronts as adults. Many children went without telling their parents and many other similar cases. Besides, the extent of children's participation in war is not as big an it's tried to be shown here. Few children under 16 were present in the war.

I haven't said that they were forced to go. They were, however, permitted to go without the being asked to return, let alone being prevented from joining. By interviewing them on what I assume is a government TV, we can safely say that this is an indirect encouragement for them to keep doing what they were doing, and to less extent, encourage others to do what these kids did.

I explained above, also I should add that many children concealed their age and it was a routine to be allowed to be present there. Also some children were working behind the front lines, basically helping to sort out things for soldiers fighting in the front, adding them to women who also did this. But over all, I don't deny that under aged soldiers were also present in the front lines, and some times they were not deported back to their homes and were allowed to stay there.
We were under weapons embargo and with Arab countries bankrolling Saddam the maniac, we had to use all resources to push him back, and not only we did it, but also considering the amount of aid and weapons Iraq received, we simply kicked his arse and broke every single of his dreams he had before starting the war. He didn't achieve one single objective of the war.

I believe If Arab countries had not helped Saddam like that, Iran wouldn't be their worst dream today.

?
I mean mullahs were literally giving them a key, and told children that they are keys to the doors of heaven.
What it has to do with the book Miftah Al-Jinan?!!!

Anything to back this myth up?

Here is a photographic thread and not spam and troll...

My first account

It is also allowed to discuss aspects of Iran-Iraq war, so we won't need a separate thread for that, as it has been the case in past 33 pages.

 

[Full Moon]

@Serpentine :

Apart from that, most Persians and Iranians, when talking about this war, seem to overlook the prolonging of this war by Khomeni. All the resources that I came through, including some Iranian resources like Abu Al Hassan Bany Sadr's interviews, indicate that Khomeini didn't want to end the war in a reasonable time. In terms of time (not damage obviously), this war was longer than WW II. There were numerous attempts for cease fire by Islamic, regional, and international envoys that were met by Khomeini non-negotiable refusal. As such, one is inclined to think that Khomeini is accountable for huge part of the blood-shed and economic destruction that the war has caused.

I understand that Khomeini wanted to fight back and make everybody think twice before trying to invade again, but that could have been achieved by the 4th or maximum the 5th year of the war. The war, however, went on and on and consequently damaged Iran as much as Iraq irreparably.

Then the Iranian Regime had the audacity to name it: The Imposed War (Jang Tahmilee). It was imposed only at the beginning of it, not after the 3rd or 4th year.

 

[rmi5]

the key story was baathists lies didnt happen in reality there are many iraqi soldiers fought this war nobody saw any keys with dead iranian soldiers

Not only there are hundreds of reports about it, but also my relatives who attended this war against Saddam, have seen these keys carried by little children, by their own eyes. If you want, you can search for it, I doubt if you cannot find evidences for it.

Propaganda depends on perspective. I can say even U.S used propaganda to gain support and send soldiers for WWII, Vietnam and Iraq. But forcing children to go to war, that's a lie and everyone knows that. In my own relatives, I know children who faked their certificates and IDs to go to fronts as adults. Many children went without telling their parents and many other similar cases. Besides, the extent of children's participation in war is not as big an it's tried to be shown here. Few children under 16 were present in the war.

You did not answer my question. I summarize it here:
Immorality is not necessarily about using force. Using propaganda on children, not adults, who cannot logically think about attending a war, is considered as crime against humanity. It's against the law, morality, and even islam if ones care.
Now, we know that tens of thousands, some reports are estimating about 1/3 of Iranian soldiers at the latest years of war were under legal age, of these children went to fronts, caused by mullahs propaganda. So, basically it is a crime against humanity.

@Serpentine :

Apart from that, most Persians and Iranians, when talking about this war, seem to overlook the prolonging of this war by Khomeni. All the resources that I came through, including some Iranian resources like Abu Al Hassan Bany Sadr's interviews, indicate that Khomeini didn't want to end the war in a reasonable time. In terms of time (not damage obviously), this war was longer than WW II. There were numerous attempts for cease fire by Islamic, regional, and international envoys that were met by Khomeini non-negotiable refusal. As such, one is inclined to think that Khomeini is accountable for huge part of the blood-shed and economic destruction that the war has caused.

I understand that Khomeini wanted to fight back and make everybody think twice before trying to invade again, but that could have been achieved by the 4th or maximum the 5th year of the war. The war, however, went on and on and consequently damaged Iran as much as Iraq irreparably.

Then the Iranian Regime had the audacity to name it: The Imposed War (Jang Tahmilee). It was imposed only at the beginning of it, not after the 3rd or 4th year.

Saddam was responsible for the first 20 months of war, in which Iran managed to drive them out of Khoramshahr, and important regions of Iran. Iran had 10% of her casualties during this time.
Mullahs are responsible for the 74 months of war after that, in which they gained nothing and also lost the compensation for war, offered by islamic and arab countries on behalf of Iraq. Also, 90% of casualties of Iran happened during this time. Iraq used chemical weapons during this time, mullahs sent child soldiers to the fronts during this time, and also political prisoners were massacred during this time.

 

[Abii]

@Serpentine :

Apart from that, most Persians and Iranians, when talking about this war, seem to overlook the prolonging of this war by Khomeni. All the resources that I came through, including some Iranian resources like Abu Al Hassan Bany Sadr's interviews, indicate that Khomeini didn't want to end the war in a reasonable time. In terms of time (not damage obviously), this war was longer than WW II. There were numerous attempts for cease fire by Islamic, regional, and international envoys that were met by Khomeini non-negotiable refusal. As such, one is inclined to think that Khomeini is accountable for huge part of the blood-shed and economic destruction that the war has caused.

I understand that Khomeini wanted to fight back and make everybody think twice before trying to invade again, but that could have been achieved by the 4th or maximum the 5th year of the war. The war, however, went on and on and consequently damaged Iran as much as Iraq irreparably.

Then the Iranian Regime had the audacity to name it: The Imposed War (Jang Tahmilee). It was imposed only at the beginning of it, not after the 3rd or 4th year.

The way I see it, and I can't prove it properly, it made sense militarily. It took a couple of years for Saddam to realize the whole thing was a flop and it wasn't gonna go anywhere, but at that point his military was even better equipped and funded than what Saddam had started with. Had Iran accepted a ceasefire, Saddam could have invaded again years later. Heck, he could have waited till the 90's and attacked then.

The prolonging of the war damaged Iran greatly, and it WAS IR's doing, but it also destroyed Saddam's military and Iraq's economy and infrastructure. The damage that Iran got wasn't as bad comparatively. In the 90's Iraqis were really having a tough time, and so did Iranians (food was being rationed in Iran in the 90's), but the damage to Iraq was much greater and more importantly a repeat of the invasion was completely out of the question at that point. By 88, Iraq no longer had the cash nor the core of its military. The country and oil infrastructure was greatly damaged too. In 1982, Iraq still had tons of cash on hand, oil infrastructure was in much better shape and the military still had its might.

To me, the prolonging of the war always made sense in that regard.

 

[The SiLent crY]

Studying in the battlefield :

 

[Full Moon]

The way I see it, and I can't prove it properly, it made sense militarily. It took a couple of years for Saddam to realize the whole thing was a flop and it wasn't gonna go anywhere, but at that point his military was even better equipped and funded than what Saddam had started with. Had Iran accepted a ceasefire, Saddam could have invaded again years later. Heck, he could have waited till the 90's and attacked then.

The prolonging of the war damaged Iran greatly, and it WAS IR's doing, but it also destroyed Saddam's military and Iraq's economy and infrastructure. The damage that Iran got wasn't as bad comparatively. In the 90's Iraqis were really having a tough time, and so did Iranians (food was being rationed in Iran in the 90's), but the damage to Iraq was much greater and more importantly a repeat of the invasion was completely out of the question at that point. By 88, Iraq no longer had the cash nor the core of its military. The country and oil infrastructure was greatly damaged too. In 1982, Iraq still had tons of cash on hand, oil infrastructure was in much better shape and the military still had its might.

To me, the prolonging of the war always made sense in that regard.

Believe it or not, the first person who told me about the war prolonging story was a Persian Taxi driver in your city "Vancouver". I researched it afterwards and confirmed its accuracy.

 

[Abii]

Believe it or not, the first person who told me about the war prolonging story was a Persian Taxi driver in your city "Vancouver". I researched it afterwards and confirmed its accuracy.

Well, it's not exactly a secret. Anybody that says otherwise is either uniformed or lying. It was Iraq and arabs that started the war and it was Iran that kept it going after 82. I've never been able to criticize the akhoonds on this specific case b/c of what I said earlier. A ceasefire could have been a very costly mistake in 82. Iraq would have ended the war at a high at that point and by a large margin (Saddam's military was better than what he had in the beginning, Iran was sanctioned while Iraq wasn't, Iraqi oil infrastructure was still doing okay, arab cash was flowing in, Iraqi civilian infrastructure was still okay etc...). Iraq needed to be crippled before a ceasefire was signed. That makes too much sense to me.

P.S. was in Calgary for half a day yesterday and holy fuckity **** the Iranian food in Calgary is head and shoulders above the garbage you find in Vancouver. In Vancouver they've all turned into fast food joints with garbage meat. Atlas in downtown Calgary, if you go there hit it up. Just don't blow up the place. Need that place standing for next time I go there.