From disco maulvi to liberal fascist

[Musafir117]

The state if following Islam and going for secularism is doing kufr that doesn't make locals kafir but they will be sinful if they don't try to change the system

O Bhai mere that all LOCALS vote for them vote for that SYSTEM so they are all Kafirs by your logic. Secular is very simple "JIO aur JINE Dou" don't force your opinion to other be an individual or a state. Isn't the same Islam teach us?

 

[Zarvan]

O Bhai mere that all LOCALS vote for them vote for that SYSTEM so they are all Kafirs by your logic. Secular is very simple "JIO aur JINE Dou" don't force your opinion to other be an individual or a state. Isn't the same Islam teach us?

I know all these so called crap theories of secularism everything goody goody I know this crap but these lies will not change the fact that secularism and Islam are completely opposite things Islam has laws for almost everything from economy to justice system to social life to government and many more and if you will come up with your own laws rather than implementing them you are indirectly stating you know better than ALLAH that is not only kufr but also clear cut shirk and ALLAH has stated clearly in the Quran that those who don't decide according to what ALLAH has revealed are real kafirs

 

[Salik]

Even in Muslims 'my Islam is better than yours' prevails. Forget about collective implementation of Islam. Implement it on yourself what you think is best and go forward.

 

[Dubious]

Living in west, I m in no way saying i m in thrall with their society. That was never my point.

What I meant was little things. If someone drinks, he or she drinks. That person will not hide or give you reasons or refute your logic. That person wont force you into doing things he does.

I agree with this!

Actually, in many ways and you have right to disagree, I have seen Islam in practice, the one that I only saw in preaching in Pakistan. This country has made me a better Muslim. IT has forced me revisit my identity. People here ask questions about Islam. I have taken it positively and learnt about Islam more than I could living and being brought up in Islamic country!

I totally agree with this and have the same experience but then again I dont really have much experience in Pakistan to compare with but I kinda assumed its the same...

My biggest grudge with Pakistani society and thats where my argument about hypocrisy came, is that we want to show off what we are not! This is an inferiority complex. As you said people dying there to show off they have a girl friend. When I sit with my Pakistani friends, I feel pressure into admitting something. I dont admit anything being forced into that I m not or dont have, but there is a peer pressure in Pakistani society. On the contrary, when I m with my Canadian friends, I m who I m.

Ahh yes, wanting to be in the top bit! THIS is a sad reality....I guess yes inferiority complex or what I have no words for...People do want to show off something they arent! And yes I can totally agree with this part...

I will add something to your example here people value what they are...even if it is an ugly drawing just by having your name signed at the bottom you can sale it for some bucks...In Pakistan people are not proud of what they are or have....and hence dont appreciate the small things!

 

[-SINAN-]

A person can never be fully secular until he or she is athiest. Secularism is clear cut kufr.

A person can't be secular.....Secularism is the trait of a state not a person...it's being used in the wrong way.

 

[Kambojaric]

Have you been around Europe in general bro? Or even read European opinions in papers! Only the intellect can speak properly while a good potion dont really know much about other's opinions! A simple lack of tolerance is the daily joke about left hand and right hand driving....And this is 1 topic I have heard too many times in a university sitting!
In fact even in America and Australia where immigrants settled by destroying the locals think others are misguided....so brother in all honesty it is not a regional problem...IF it were due to lack of education, what is the West's problem of behaving in a similar manner!

I accept they tolerate a lot but mostly due to the strict laws but it is not naturally....They have good laws which are implemented and controlled! It kills room for intolerance....To say them as a race or being naturally tolerant is a flaw! Though I do believe alot of them are incredibly humble......Again I have almost always heard people end their sentences if I think that way then I would be racist.....or that is very narrow minded thinking.....its not like they dont think or behave that way...its just awareness that such things have labels associated with them and many wouldnt like to be labeled! It is indeed something you would be surprised to hear but have ignored but it is there!

Ive lived in Europe half my life sister so yes I am aware of the rising Islamophobia for example in the context of post recession Europe both in the UK and Sweden. However based on my experience there is a stark difference between the old and young generations. I have seen my black friend being called a nigger by an old Swedish lady (Swedish children in the 30s and 40s were indoctrinated with ideas of racial superiority) yet the modern generation are a lot more open minded. So much so that one of Sweden's most favourite desert was called Negerboll (nigger ball) but this name has now been changed to Kokosboll (Cocoaball) even though blacks wouldnt even make up 0.5% of the population. Nobody today uses the word negerboll to not hurt the feelings of black people eventhough its their old traditional name for this desert. In Pakistan however even to name one chowk after Bhagat Singh created a huge fuss.

Of course implementation of law plays a huge role in all of this I agree but so does education and exposure. Right wing islamophobic parties for example get a lot of their votes from rural white areas. In cities however where immigrants tend to reside even the whites living in those cities are less likely to vote for these right wing parties. Take UKIP and London for example

"A Ukip councillor has blamed London's "more media-savvy and educated" population for the party's lack of success in the capital as local election results indicate an emerging geographical split in the party's popularity."
(Losing Ukip councillor blames poor London polls on 'cultured elite' | Politics | The Guardian

Similarly in Sweden Sverigedemokraterna (their version of UKIP/BNP) got the least votes in the city I lived in (Gothenburg) including in areas of the city which have outright White majorities. The bulk of their votes came from rural areas such as Smaland and Skane.

I on the other hand observed a bit of the opposite! I have met more professors and university workers from lab mates to lab technicians who are willing to talk about religion and exchange ideas.....They awe and accept at how we keep fasts for summer, they awe at how we pray on time, they awe at our discipline ....Religion may not be everything but it def is not worth dropping....I mean I am here all alone, no one knows me, I can remove my scarf and blend in...Apart from my nose and slight dark skin colour and diet, I can blend in without any care on the planet and then put the scarf back on again when I go back to Pakistan.....But I like being appreciated for what I am doing....When you do nothing wrong you shouldnt be afraid...Alhamdulillah I have never experienced any form of difference just coz I wear a scarf and dont eat meat....

Oh im not advocating dropping your religion. I myself dont drink or eat non-halal meat but everyone should have the right to decide for themselves and we should leave the judgement to God. Thats the sign of a firm believer imo. An individual who doesnt have to flaunt his knowledge of beliefs on other's but rather lets his actions speak for them self. Har insaan ko allah ne dimagh diya hae. Forcing our views on others will result in them bearing a grudge towards you and your belief's. I have seen so many Pakistani girls here in the UK at uni for example who were forced ("strongly encouraged") to wear hijabs and who then came to uni and were going out clubbing and drinking. Moderation from an early age is what we need.

Likewise in Pakistan if a gora comes in without headscarf, heck even if your cousin from abroad comes in without headscarf, there is more tolerance for women to be in jeans and without headscarf in Pakistan....Heck the fashion styles in Pakistan are far advanced than jeans! Half the stuff they wear, my Italian colleagues have had their mouths hanging with looking at stuff I showed em!

There are different levels of tolerance....The only prob I see with PAKISTANI societies is that they are too wayli! They need a job instead of sitting around and snooping around like a spy and taking notice of every fly on the planet!

I suppose it depends on where in Pakistan you are. Certainly in areas such as Defence or Cantt in Lahore jeans would be fine but if I went to visit my relatives in androon shehr only maybe a gori could wear a jeans bt everyone else would consider a Pakistani girl who was wearing jeans to be a woman with loose morals.

 

[Zarvan]

I was a disco liberal before becoming Islamist

 

[airmarshal]

..Religion may not be everything but it def is not worth dropping....I mean I am here all alone, no one knows me, I can remove my scarf and blend in...Apart from my nose and slight dark skin colour and diet, I can blend in without any care on the planet and then put the scarf back on again when I go back to Pakistan.....But I like being appreciated for what I am doing....When you do nothing wrong you shouldnt be afraid...Alhamdulillah I have never experienced any form of difference just coz I wear a scarf and dont eat meat....

Likewise in Pakistan if a gora comes in without headscarf, heck even if your cousin from abroad comes in without headscarf, there is more tolerance for women to be in jeans and without headscarf in Pakistan....Heck the fashion styles in Pakistan are far advanced than jeans! Half the stuff they wear, my Italian colleagues have had their mouths hanging with looking at stuff I showed em!

There are different levels of tolerance....The only prob I see with PAKISTANI societies is that they are too wayli! They need a job instead of sitting around and snooping around like a spy and taking notice of every fly on the planet!

I did not know you were a girl but your head scarf in Pakistan mindset is the biggest giveaway you are extremist, a Talban sympathizer or a Wahabi. But if you wear jeans even within the norm of dressing decently you will still be labeled as some westernized girl with some loose morals somewhere.

People will be instantly judgemental when they have ZERO business to meddle in your life. We have not learnt to respect others and thats why no one respects us.

On the point of religion and people's curiosity and tolerance here. I will narrate a personal experience. One of my best Canadian friends, a nice guy who always with women ( I say plural intentionally) and who used to drink as well, asked me questions about Islam and observed me too. Just recently he told me he wants to convert. This without my urging or proselytizing.

The society here respects difference and learns from differences too. We dont respect difference and thus we dont learn.

 

[Dubious]

I did not know you were a girl

Give me few mins my net is fluctuating and pissing me off....

in Pakistan mindset is the biggest giveaway you are extremist, a Talban sympathizer or a Wahabi. But if you wear jeans even within the norm of dressing decently you will still be labeled as some westernized girl with some loose morals somewhere.

Thanks for the early warning

People will be instantly judgemental when they have ZERO business to meddle in your life. We have not learnt to respect others and thats why no one respects us.

Waylay log are like that...It is the same case from Thailand to Italy...Believe me I have spend enough time in both places to realize that difference is not EASILY acceptable and prying in others business IS a norm! Hence, why I fail to see why the world blames or raises fingers at uneducated Pakistanis for doing the same as that in Thailand and Italy or any of south Europe (not if you are a tourist in touristic places) ....My degree makes me travel and kuch lakeer mein likha hai and kuch apna shouk....So I got to observe different societies from weeks to months to years!

On the point of religion and people's curiosity and tolerance here. I will narrate a personal experience. One of my best Canadian friends, a nice guy who always with women ( I say plural intentionally) and who used to drink as well, asked me questions about Islam and observed me too. Just recently he told me he wants to convert. This without my urging or proselytizing.

The society here respects difference and learns from differences too. We dont respect difference and thus we dont learn.

I agree but I think it is not lack of respect in Pakistan but lack of learning from experience us choosing PPP and PMLN is the biggest examples!

in Pakistan mindset is the biggest giveaway you are extremist, a Talban sympathizer or a Wahabi. But if you wear jeans even within the norm of dressing decently you will still be labeled as some westernized girl with some loose morals somewhere.

Thanks for the early warning

People will be instantly judgemental when they have ZERO business to meddle in your life. We have not learnt to respect others and thats why no one respects us.

Waylay log are like that...It is the same case from Thailand to Italy...Believe me I have spend enough time in both places to realize that difference is not EASILY acceptable and prying in others business IS a norm! Hence, why I fail to see why the world blames or raises fingers at uneducated Pakistanis for doing the same as that in Thailand and Italy or any of south Europe (not if you are a tourist in touristic places) ....My degree makes me travel and kuch lakeer mein likha hai and kuch apna shouk....So I got to observe different societies from weeks to months to years!

On the point of religion and people's curiosity and tolerance here. I will narrate a personal experience. One of my best Canadian friends, a nice guy who always with women ( I say plural intentionally) and who used to drink as well, asked me questions about Islam and observed me too. Just recently he told me he wants to convert. This without my urging or proselytizing.

The society here respects difference and learns from differences too. We dont respect difference and thus we dont learn.

I agree but I think it is not lack of respect in Pakistan but lack of learning from experience us choosing PPP and PMLN is the biggest examples!

 

[Salik]

Waylay log

No one is wayla in this world even one who looks idle is consuming Oxygen and producing Carbon Dioxide essential for plantation. Besides os ke mann mein kia chall raha he you don't know. So everyone please avoid this word.

 

[Pakistani E]

I have always asked Pakistanis to explain to me the term "liberal fascist", none have done so convincingly. Anyone else wants to have a go?

 

[Dubious]

No one is wayla in this world even one who looks idle is consuming Oxygen and producing Carbon Dioxide essential for plantation. Besides os ke mann mein kia chall raha he you don't know. So everyone please avoid this word.

Yo Philosopher its a simple word which means idle based on actions not Physiology heck even a plant is breathing but we dont call it waila!

And it is Waili harkat if someone is snooping around and not minding their own business......

I have always asked Pakistanis to explain to me the term "liberal fascist", none have done so convincingly. Anyone else wants to have a go?

I am against labeling! I am not a CD or something that requires labeling

 

[Pakistani E]

Yo Philosopher its a simple word which means idle based on actions not Physiology heck even a plant is breathing but we dont call it waila!

And it is Waili harkat if someone is snooping around and not minding their own business......


I am against labeling! I am not a CD or something that requires labeling

I understand, I am referring to people who call people liberal fascists but do not know that liberalism and fascism are two polar opposites.

 

[Salik]

I am against labeling! I am not a CD or something that requires labeling

Yet labeling others as wayle.

Watch your steps please : )

 

[Dubious]

Yet labeling others as wayle.

Watch your steps please : )

wayla is an attitude not a thinking....its an action that makes you do something...while a thinking doesnt go that far....Wrong intentions ALLAH b maaf kerta hai as long as you dont go wayla on them! Hope you understand better now!