From Arabization to Turkfication Ertugrul and Pakistani Nationalism

[Psychic]

pseudo religious filled with confused individuals who want to tie us to Arabs,Turks and Persians do we lack self esteem as a people we have kaleidoscope of nationalities straddling the Indus River Valley and basin cmon

LoL.

The Delhi Sultanate which ruled modern day Pakistan(and India) were Turkic with roots in Central Asia. Later in the sixteenth century, Babur came. Babur, the founder of the Mughal empire was a Timurid Turkic prince who came from modern day Uzbekistan. Those who ruled these lands for a thousand years spoke Turkic language in their harems and used Persian as their court language. Urdu itself is a Turkic word, a language which was a mixture of Turkic, Persian, Sansikrat and Arabic. Much of Pakistan's modern culture has borrowed massively from the culture "imposed" by Timurid Turkic Mughals including the language, cuisine and festivals. Kurta and Pajama, Sherwani, Helwa, Pulao, qourma and Kebab originated in Central Asia, not in the Indus Valley. Shalwar qameez was not the dress of the people of the Indus Valley Civilization, it was brought by the Muslims in 13th century. Had our forefathers not borrowed anything at all from those "foreign" cultures, the "sons of soil" or "inheritors" of the Indus Valley Civilization would be wearing white dhotis(read lioncloths) today just like the one that Gandhi wore. Eating burgers and pizzas is OK but if we eat shwarma than all libbus go bonkers and blame us of borrowing Arab culture.

We consider Muhammad PBUH who was an Arab to be our greatest leader, not the local Raja Dahir or Jay Pal. Pakistani culture already has many influences from "outside" including the dominant religion itself (Islam was meant for all of mankind, not just for Arabs alone). That is how cultures evolve. There is no one alive today who proudly follows to the letter what the people of the Indus Valley Civilization did as a part of their "indigenous" culture; not sure what you guys mean when you hammer the term Indus Valley Civilization because that civilization exists no more. The local culture evolved over a period of a thousand years and was influenced heavily by "foreign invaders" who made this place their own land and their own country and shaped its future.

If you ever watch that TV drama Ertugrul, you won't feel any threat to the Pakistani culture at all as it more or less resonates with the cultural, religious and moral values we already uphold; it does not present something which is radical or totally alien to the local Pakistani culture. On the other hand, we would never accept things like Third Wave Feminism, Gay Rights Movements and desensitization of degeneracy which Hollywood and the West promotes (things which Ertugrul bashers also promote and don't think of them as a threat to Pakistani culture). Pakistanis wear jeans and T-shirt, watch bollywood and Indian soap operas in which a man prays to an idol before going to work, watch Hollywood movies which don't reflect our culture at all, if all of that doesn't pose a threat to Pakistani culture then so doesn't Ertugrul.

P.S, last Chief Minister of Sindh and the current one are Syeds(Arab origins). So, you want to exile them to Arabia? People settled from outside in this region throughout history, you cannot disown them because of their Arab or Persian origins.

@Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @Desert Fox

 

[insight-out]

Only persons with an identity crisis insist that others have an identity crisis. It's called projection.

I have no illusions about who I am, or where I came from.

 

[graphican]

After 20 years people watched PTV and they've discovered people would watch them if they were less boring.

This drama is promoting Pan Islamic view of Allama Iqbal, something which politicians could not do, this recorded drama is finally doing.

 

[-SINAN-]

Regionally, Turkey is eyeing at reviving its status of being the leader of the Muslim World. The Islamist roots of Justice and Development Party from which President Erdogan belongs and the subsequent ideology of “Neo-Ottomanism” indicate Turkey’s intentions.

This is a big no, if you think this way you will be fooling yourself. Erdogan might think and act like you described but not Turkey as a whole. Erdogan sadly, doesn't represent the Turkish nation as a whole. He is a polarizing leader, created great rifts among society. More over his party lost control of the all big cities in Turkey. In a Western country a leader like that would have resigned due to failure.

In the next Presidential election, there is a great great chance of Erdogan losing the power. New generation of politicians have emerged Mansur Yavaş, Ekrem Imamoğlu, Ali Babacan and they are becoming very popular.

In 3 years you can see great shift in Turkey's foreign relationship. So, you shouldn't construct your thesis on the "Turkey is eyeing at reviving its status of being the leader of the Muslim World.". 5 years from now on, Israel might be our best ally in the region as they were in the past.

 

[nahtanbob]

Seriously the arab world is backward because of Ottoman rule.

I like modern Turkey. for that matter I have nothing against the Ottomans except they were backward compared to her European neighbors

 

[-SINAN-]

Seriously the arab world is backward because of Ottoman rule.

I like modern Turkey. for that matter I have nothing against the Ottomans except they were backward compared to her European neighbors

Don't feed the troll guys...

 

[Yankee-stani]

This is a big no, if you think this way you will be fooling yourself. Erdogan might think and act like you described but not Turkey as a whole. Erdogan sadly, doesn't represent the Turkish nation as a whole. He is a polarizing leader, created great rifts among society. More over his party lost control of the all big cities in Turkey. In a Western country a leader like that would have resigned due to failure.

In the next Presidential election, there is a great great chance of Erdogan losing the power. New generation of politicians have emerged Mansur Yavaş, Ekrem Imamoğlu, Ali Babacan and they are becoming very popular.

In 3 years you can see great shift in Turkey's foreign relationship. So, you shouldn't construct your thesis on the "Turkey is eyeing at reviving its status of being the leader of the Muslim World.". 5 years from now on, Israel might be our best ally in the region as they were in the past.

Oh no I don't think that way Turkey is not going to be reviving the Ottoman Empire anytime soon but Erdogan may want it but the Turkish public nope regional nations nope and I do think there will be shift this decade from Turkey to that of a responsible regional power my country men are sadly blind I want shine a different perspective of Turkey and Turks in general

 

[S.Y.A]

Btw, turkic dynasties ruled this region for centuries. Arabs ruled sindh for a century or two. And in all of these eras, including mongol invasions, loads of emigration took place. Loads of persians, arabs(from iraq and syria region esp), turkic and pashtun people migrated here. It is foolish to believe that there was no race mixing, or that they left no descendants, or that their families vanished into thin air after british conquest. Pakistan isnt what you think it is. Its not purely punjabi or sindhi since centuries (all the makhdooms and shahs).
Also, IVC died out. Stop trying to revive dead people and forcibly trying to associate yourself with them. Today's people arent related to IVC.

 

[shahbaz baig]

aah my brothers.

Why are you suffering from the identity crisis? you should not be a stupid if you are really a muslim. Because our real identity infront Allah is muslim. Allah will not ask you about your ethnicity & caste in the day of judgement ( mehshar e akhirat) except your deeds.

All mankind is from Adam & eve, An arab has no supriority over non-arab nor a non-arab has any supriority over an arab; also a white has no supriority over black nor a black has any supriority over a white except by piety and good action. (Prophet Muhammad Peace be upon him).

 

[Nyarlathotep]

I'll be glad to clarify your confusion on Pakistaniyat and our basis of existence (Muslim nationalism), and so on. I understand you did not get educated in Pakistan so its hard for you to truly understand how Pakistanis think about their nationalism (which is not exclusionary like the ethnic nationalism---but its positively inclusionary based around Islam, not just one ethnicity).

It is problematic tho; as if the basis of our country’s existence is Muslim nationalism what happens to all the non Muslims residing in our country. Surely they cannot be Pakistani, surely they cannot have any allegiance to our nation?

 

[S.Y.A]

aah my brothers.

Why are you suffering from the identity crisis? you should not be a stupid if you are really a muslim. Because our real identity infront Allah is muslim. Allah will not ask you about your ethnicity & caste in the day of judgement ( mehshar e akhirat) except your deeds.

All mankind is from Adam & eve, An arab has no supriority over non-arab nor a non-arab has any supriority over an arab; also a white has no supriority over black nor a black has any supriority over a white except by piety and good action. (Prophet Muhammad Peae be upon him).

our people dont understand this, they think that land, ethnicity and bloodlines are holy.

 

[S.Y.A]

It is problematic tho; as if the basis of our country’s existence is Muslim nationalism what happens to all the non Muslims residing in our country. Surely they cannot be Pakistani, surely they cannot have any allegiance to our nation?

yeah, you are confusing two different things. they can still be loyal to the state, just like non muslims under rashidun caliphate (which was an Islamic entity, not an ethnic one). they are citizens, and Pakistanis, but the dominant ideology is still Muslim.

 

[Syed1.]

Seems Pakistanis are so oblivious to their own culture since they have it all around them that they are numb to it.


It's same way people say America has no culture while munching on a juicy Big Mac and watching a Hollywood movie.

 

[El Sidd]

LoL.

The Delhi Sultanate which ruled modern day Pakistan(and India) were Turkic with roots in Central Asia. Later in the sixteenth century, Babur came. Babur, the founder of the Mughal empire was a Timurid Turkic prince who came from modern day Uzbekistan. Those who ruled these lands for a thousand years spoke Turkic language in their harems and used Persian as their court language. Urdu itself is a Turkic word, a language which was a mixture of Turkic, Persian, Sansikrat and Arabic. Much of Pakistan's modern culture has borrowed massively from the culture "imposed" by Timurid Turkic Mughals including the language, cuisine and festivals. Kurta and Pajama, Sherwani, Helwa, Pulao, qourma and Kebab originated in Central Asia, not in the Indus Valley. Shalwar qameez was not the dress of the people of the Indus Valley Civilization, it was brought by the Muslims in 13th century. Had our forefathers not borrowed anything at all from those "foreign" cultures, the "sons of soil" or "inheritors" of the Indus Valley Civilization would be wearing white dhotis(read lioncloths) today just like the one that Gandhi wore. Eating burgers and pizzas is OK but if we eat shwarma than all libbus go bonkers and blame us of borrowing Arab culture.

We consider Muhammad PBUH who was an Arab to be our greatest leader, not the local Raja Dahir or Jay Pal. Pakistani culture already has many influences from "outside" including the dominant religion itself (Islam was meant for all of mankind, not just for Arabs alone). That is how cultures evolve. There is no one alive today who proudly follows to the letter what the people of the Indus Valley Civilization did as a part of their "indigenous" culture; not sure what you guys mean when you hammer the term Indus Valley Civilization because that civilization exists no more. The local culture evolved over a period of a thousand years and was influenced heavily by "foreign invaders" who made this place their own land and their own country and shaped its future.

If you ever watch that TV drama Ertugrul, you won't feel any threat to the Pakistani culture at all as it more or less resonates with the cultural, religious and moral values we already uphold; it does not present something which is radical or totally alien to the local Pakistani culture. On the other hand, we would never accept things like Third Wave Feminism, Gay Rights Movements and desensitization of degeneracy which Hollywood and the West promotes (things which Ertugrul bashers also promote and don't think of them as a threat to Pakistani culture). Pakistanis wear jeans and T-shirt, watch bollywood and Indian soap operas in which a man prays to an idol before going to work, watch Hollywood movies which don't reflect our culture at all, if all of that doesn't pose a threat to Pakistani culture then so doesn't Ertugrul.

P.S, last Chief Minister of Sindh and the current one are Syeds(Arab origins). So, you want to exile them to Arabia? People settled from outside in this region throughout history, you cannot disown them because of their Arab or Persian origins.

@Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @Desert Fox

there is no need to get this angry

What is Arabization? I have never seen any Pakistani speaking Arabic or wearing Arab dress

Faisalabad is named after Arab.

It should be renamed Lyallpur or Sindhupur.

But i will only agree to it if someone can explain that by ritual indus whirling/dancing as done by the indus figurine.

 

[El Sidd]

Aik district ka name sa local culture khatray main par gaya ha? Waisay Arabization sa inka kya mtlab hota ha?

do not do what arabs do.

change your god