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From Arabization to Turkfication Ertugrul and Pakistani Nationalism

One can start by changing his current Arab sounding name Osman Ali to indigenous sounding Partap Agarwal; from thence, one can proceed step by step to discover his true roots.

It is legally possible. There is no compulsion in this. It ain't Iran or any other country where one gets to choose from state sanctioned name.

He is just jealous that Allahbad got changed to Pragyarag and he cannot change his ancestral village name back to the dancing doll figurine found in one of the farmland he is inheriting
 
What a heart warming serial.. keeps you on the edge. in line with what i grew up learning as a tenant of islam, justice and serving the oppressed.
 
It is legally possible. There is no compulsion in this. It ain't Iran or any other country where one gets to choose from state sanctioned name.

He is just jealous that Allahbad got changed to Pragyarag and he cannot change his ancestral village name back to the dancing doll figurine found in one of the farmland he is inheriting


You talkin about the Venus figurine of the IVC? That figurine is amazing, it gives me a feel of the people on this land 5000-7000 years ago, their basal instincts and fears
 
You talkin about the Venus figurine of the IVC? That figurine is amazing, it gives me a feel of the people on this land 5000-7000 years ago, their basal instincts and fears

If you want to impose colonial version of history, sure they are 5000 to 7000 years old.

Go to Thar, they sing about ice ages and 125000 years of history.
 
Ertugrul offers an alternative narrative to a country with a majority population of under-35s to connect with a past empire associated with conquest rather than fighting against colonialism.

Why does the author limit the start to our history at colonialism? Also whats wrong with conquest? Why can't Pakistani's be interested in conquest. Every article i read against Ertugrul mentions conquest as a dirty word.

"There is definitely an element of the Pakistani state pushing a certain idea of Islamic history, that focuses on conquest and expansionism and that has a long history of being used as propaganda," he says.

Why is the author of this article afraid of this? It's great. We need to think big.

We consider Muhammad PBUH who was an Arab to be our greatest leader, not the local Raja Dahir or Jay Pal. Pakistani culture already has many influences from "outside" including the dominant religion itself (Islam was meant for all of mankind, not just for Arabs alone). That is how cultures evolve. There is no one alive today who proudly follows to the letter what the people of the Indus Valley Civilization did as a part of their "indigenous" culture; not sure what you guys mean when you hammer the term Indus Valley Civilization because that civilization exists no more. The local culture evolved over a period of a thousand years and was influenced heavily by "foreign invaders" who made this place their own land and their own country and shaped its future.

Brilliant paragraph. Culture is an ever evolving thing. English is now part of Pakistani culture, i don't hear anyone complaining.
 
It’s about time. Id like to see my own regional dramas being made from these places as-well from Pashtun, Baluchi, Kashmiris. The current Tv channels sadly are all dramas heavily influenced on urdu with the same crazily stupid story lines. A complete turn off for us I’m not joking when I say this it’s like these shows & actors are from indian tv. Im just saying we have such a fcking rich culture from these ethnic groups untapped at the moment that would be a hit across the Middle East and Turkey and Central Asia. Our ethnic groups with languages snd dress costumes in many ways resembles in style to Turkey, and Iranians, who would easily relate to them. Yes and Punjabi have been forgotten to. People living outside of Pakistan know little of this shouldn’t we at least show them this and show case our Pakistan
 
Confused spawns of our diaspora are passing their own inferiority complexes on us.

Pretty much every thread about "we are not arab, persian, turk" or "we are indians" comes from the same set of people.

If you are ABCD, please work on fixing the problem, learn Urdu (read Pakistani novels,) start watching Pakistani media, and last of all, most importantly, learn about Islam as a religion and also Muslim history.

You will start to appreciate Pakistani cukture, not deride it every chance you get.

It is problematic tho; as if the basis of our country’s existence is Muslim nationalism what happens to all the non Muslims residing in our country. Surely they cannot be Pakistani, surely they cannot have any allegiance to our nation?

Indian asked a Pakistani Christian friend of mine, "What do you think of Muslims and Pakistanis?" His answer was, "I am religiously a Christian, but culturally I am a Muslim."

There is no confusion. I grew up with many Christians in Punjab, we get along great.

LoL.

The Delhi Sultanate which ruled modern day Pakistan(and India) were Turkic with roots in Central Asia. Later in the sixteenth century, Babur came. Babur, the founder of the Mughal empire was a Timurid Turkic prince who came from modern day Uzbekistan. Those who ruled these lands for a thousand years spoke Turkic language in their harems and used Persian as their court language. Urdu itself is a Turkic word, a language which was a mixture of Turkic, Persian, Sansikrat and Arabic. Much of Pakistan's modern culture has borrowed massively from the culture "imposed" by Timurid Turkic Mughals including the language, cuisine and festivals. Kurta and Pajama, Sherwani, Helwa, Pulao, qourma and Kebab originated in Central Asia, not in the Indus Valley. Shalwar qameez was not the dress of the people of the Indus Valley Civilization, it was brought by the Muslims in 13th century. Had our forefathers not borrowed anything at all from those "foreign" cultures, the "sons of soil" or "inheritors" of the Indus Valley Civilization would be wearing white dhotis(read lioncloths) today just like the one that Gandhi wore. Eating burgers and pizzas is OK but if we eat shwarma than all libbus go bonkers and blame us of borrowing Arab culture.

We consider Muhammad PBUH who was an Arab to be our greatest leader, not the local Raja Dahir or Jay Pal. Pakistani culture already has many influences from "outside" including the dominant religion itself (Islam was meant for all of mankind, not just for Arabs alone). That is how cultures evolve. There is no one alive today who proudly follows to the letter what the people of the Indus Valley Civilization did as a part of their "indigenous" culture; not sure what you guys mean when you hammer the term Indus Valley Civilization because that civilization exists no more. The local culture evolved over a period of a thousand years and was influenced heavily by "foreign invaders" who made this place their own land and their own country and shaped its future.

If you ever watch that TV drama Ertugrul, you won't feel any threat to the Pakistani culture at all as it more or less resonates with the cultural, religious and moral values we already uphold; it does not present something which is radical or totally alien to the local Pakistani culture. On the other hand, we would never accept things like Third Wave Feminism, Gay Rights Movements and desensitization of degeneracy which Hollywood and the West promotes (things which Ertugrul bashers also promote and don't think of them as a threat to Pakistani culture). Pakistanis wear jeans and T-shirt, watch bollywood and Indian soap operas in which a man prays to an idol before going to work, watch Hollywood movies which don't reflect our culture at all, if all of that doesn't pose a threat to Pakistani culture then so doesn't Ertugrul.

P.S, last Chief Minister of Sindh and the current one are Syeds(Arab origins). So, you want to exile them to Arabia? People settled from outside in this region throughout history, you cannot disown them because of their Arab or Persian origins.

@Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @Desert Fox

Thanks for the tag, brother. You hit every single point. Great post.

Allah swt bless you brother.

We Pakistanis have a unique and amazing culture, in which Islam is an integral part. We need to celebrate our heritage and our civilization.
 
Indian asked a Pakistani Christian friend of mine, "What do you think of Muslims and Pakistanis?" His answer was, "I am religiously a Christian, but culturally I am a Muslim."

.

Many people dont know this. There is a very interesting paper on this topic called 'The Sociological Profile of the Christian minority in Pakistan' by Wayne McClintock. The author calls this 'syncretism' as Christian in Punjab have adopted cultural aspects of Islam. For example, pilgrimage to shrines of Sufi figures.
 
It is problematic tho; as if the basis of our country’s existence is Muslim nationalism what happens to all the non Muslims residing in our country. Surely they cannot be Pakistani, surely they cannot have any allegiance to our nation?

Lmao why and who said so? :lol:

Non-Muslims are to be treated with justice like non-Muslims have been treated throughout classical Islam.

While the state of Pakistan is Islamic, non-Muslims can not be forced to change their religion. Infact, certain concessions are given to them based on their religion that are not afforded to majority Muslims.

Is Germany a nation for Germans based on historical German nationalism? Yes. Does that mean non-German minorties can't be citizens and have to be kicked out? What kind of dumb logic is that. You are reaching at this point.
 
Many people dont know this. There is a very interesting paper on this topic called 'The Sociological Profile of the Christian minority in Pakistan' by Wayne McClintock. The author calls this 'syncretism' as Christian in Punjab have adopted cultural aspects of Islam. For example, pilgrimage to shrines of Sufi figures.
Many have Muslim names
 
It’s about time. Id like to see my own regional dramas being made from these places as-well from Pashtun, Baluchi, Kashmiris. The current Tv channels sadly are all dramas heavily influenced on urdu with the same crazily stupid story lines. A complete turn off for us I’m not joking when I say this it’s like these shows & actors are from indian tv. Im just saying we have such a fcking rich culture from these ethnic groups untapped at the moment that would be a hit across the Middle East and Turkey and Central Asia. Our ethnic groups with languages snd dress costumes in many ways resembles in style to Turkey, and Iranians, who would easily relate to them. Yes and Punjabi have been forgotten to. People living outside of Pakistan know little of this shouldn’t we at least show them this and show case our Pakistan

An Indian here was trying to convince me that Punjabi is a dying language in Punjab. I laughed so hard.

Jaddon vi assi Faisalabad ya Lahore jande aa, te kalle punjabi te guftegu hondi ey.

Ithey lokki kende aa te punjabi koi ni bolda. Lol.

Many have Muslim names

Many of my friends in Pakistanis are Isayy, we even go to their church for weddings or some holidays. I don't see any problem in it. Many Muslims do so.
 
Pakistanis saying this:

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I learned here that there are Pakistanis... mostly are hiding behind all kinds of cliques while trying to show his/her indoctrinate level... who cannot express their personal hatred to Turkey openly...

They try to give opinions like an expert in areas where they are mostly ignorant, even without any historical knowledge... Or, as seen here, they try to pursue Pakistani identity polemics over on TV series...

We know these methods well, we have experienced many deep psychological warfare organizations in the recent past. I am sure Pakistani who can analyze the fight with India in depth and have experience over a certain age have the same awareness.

The customer of what is tried to be sold here will be other raw/age of internet people who are only on the verge of the same knowledge and radius.
 
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