What's new

Friend and foe problem with F 16

Status
Not open for further replies.
As Santro explained the "Papa" version of the Sidewinder has a heat seeker head, it will go after any heat source hence it's never fired when Sun is may be in the background. In this case, it went after the heat releasing exhaust of the F-16. The "Lima" is a different ball game.

Actually.. the IFF only comes into play when a radar lock is used to slave the seeker's head to the target.
If Launched just on the basis of its own IR seeker.. most IR missiles(unless dual seeker and imaging) will head straight for the heat source they picked up.
So even a 9L or M can go after a friendly.
However.. modern heatseekers that actually "see" the target they are locked on.. are more reliable on hitting exactly what they are after.
 
.
Since "Lima" is "all angles", what does that tell us..... dual seeker & imaging ?
 
.
Get over it, there is no such thing as IFF softwar..and stop bullsh1ting..Pakistan can play strategy with US, and already doing do..all out war no way!
 
.
Get over it, there is no such thing as IFF softwar..and stop bullsh1ting..Pakistan can play strategy with US, and already doing do..all out war no way!

So how do you think IFF works?

The F-16, like most modern warplanes, is just a large flying computer, with some additions.
 
. . .
Sorry son, you are low on your bite today. Looks like the 5-time headbanging on the floor has numbed you up.

Dude, no one mocks your religion. If that's the soul purpose of your existence, then why come to a Pakistani forum? Why don't you go bath in the river Ganji with the cow and elephant pi**, it might freshen you up!
 
. .
The reason I'm not jumping into this is because I think this is #2 behind only 9-11 as a hot-button topic. As soon as one thread dies, another pops up. I have cut & paste 9-11 stuff saved with NOTEPAD on my computer. Maybe I need to do the same with IFF and "Off codes" stuff.

The simple way to look at IFF is this: It's like an encoded air traffic transponder. A Transponder sits there idle until it is "interrogated" by a signal, which 90% of the time is piggybacked onto a radar. The standard transponder is what air traffic control (ATC) uses to monitor aircraft movement, NOT raw skin paint returns. A military IFF is much the same, except the unit is encoded with a rotating code which can be changed at any time.

For example, headquarters USAF says "The IFF code for 15 September is 'fji7f87hu98w89476' " This code is loaded into a box; crew chiefs take this thing (think of it like a USB thumb drive) and encode their jets. Theoretically, all friendly airplanes flying around on 15 Sep. have fji7f87hu98w89476 in their IFF.

I'm in my F-15, and I lock up a suspicious target. I mash the IFF button. My radar signal asks the target 2 things... "Do you have IFF on board? And if you do, what code do you have?" The target IFF responds to the signal, and sends the code fji7f87hu98w89476 back to me. So I know this guy is friendly. Let's say the target sends back hjkd8g6674jjf7, an incorrect code. I can tell he has our style of IFF on board, but he's got the wrong code. Is he enemy, spoofing me? I don't know.

The target can also simply turn off his IFF. In that case, I'll get no return at all.

IFF is not a guaranteed thing. Battle damage can cause IFF failure. So can plain old malfunction. Lack of IFF does not automatically mean I can shoot. It depends upon the ROE. In real life, a large number of factors come into play. Does AWACS have any idea? Did they take off from a known enemy base? etc.

IFF is considered "Co-operative target recognition" and is only one tool among many. There is also "NCTR" non co-operative target recognition, which is cosmic and secret stuff to identify a target without using any form of transponder.

What IFF is NOT... it is not a magic device, it cannot turn a weapons system on or off, it is useful only on like systems. For example, there is no Co-operative target recognition between F-22's and Su-27's, unless installed by 3rd parties onto both airplanes. The reality of IFF is much more complex than what I've described, and it is never relied upon 100%.

And no, there's no IFF on an AIM-9.
 
.
One weird thing ! How did Paf pilot hit the Friendly Viper in Soviet-Afghan war.
wasn't that machine showing a friendly bird flying around.

As Santro explained the "Papa" version of the Sidewinder has a heat seeker head, it will go after any heat source hence it's never fired when Sun is may be in the background. In this case, it went after the heat releasing exhaust of the F-16. The "Lima" is a different ball game.

Sidewinder (L) case comes later ... when u have pressed the button .. u cant do anything then.
But recognising a F-16 as a friendly target is Radar's job. PAF pilot must be using radar to monitor A2A battle.
Didn't he get a friendly Target warning, when the Sidewinder light turn green ?
Or this technology is applicable for BWR engagement only.
Or he was engaging an visual target, ignoring the Radar completely.
Or our birds were not that capable to specify the flying objects.
 
.
The reason I'm not jumping into this is because I think this is #2 behind only 9-11 as a hot-button topic. As soon as one thread dies, another pops up. I have cut & paste 9-11 stuff saved with NOTEPAD on my computer. Maybe I need to do the same with IFF and "Off codes" stuff.

The simple way to look at IFF is this: It's like an encoded air traffic transponder. A Transponder sits there idle until it is "interrogated" by a signal, which 90% of the time is piggybacked onto a radar. The standard transponder is what air traffic control (ATC) uses to monitor aircraft movement, NOT raw skin paint returns. A military IFF is much the same, except the unit is encoded with a rotating code which can be changed at any time.

For example, headquarters USAF says "The IFF code for 15 September is 'fji7f87hu98w89476' " This code is loaded into a box; crew chiefs take this thing (think of it like a USB thumb drive) and encode their jets. Theoretically, all friendly airplanes flying around on 15 Sep. have fji7f87hu98w89476 in their IFF.

I'm in my F-15, and I lock up a suspicious target. I mash the IFF button. My radar signal asks the target 2 things... "Do you have IFF on board? And if you do, what code do you have?" The target IFF responds to the signal, and sends the code fji7f87hu98w89476 back to me. So I know this guy is friendly. Let's say the target sends back hjkd8g6674jjf7, an incorrect code. I can tell he has our style of IFF on board, but he's got the wrong code. Is he enemy, spoofing me? I don't know.

The target can also simply turn off his IFF. In that case, I'll get no return at all.

IFF is not a guaranteed thing. Battle damage can cause IFF failure. So can plain old malfunction. Lack of IFF does not automatically mean I can shoot. It depends upon the ROE. In real life, a large number of factors come into play. Does AWACS have any idea? Did they take off from a known enemy base? etc.

IFF is considered "Co-operative target recognition" and is only one tool among many. There is also "NCTR" non co-operative target recognition, which is cosmic and secret stuff to identify a target without using any form of transponder.

What IFF is NOT... it is not a magic device, it cannot turn a weapons system on or off, it is useful only on like systems. For example, there is no Co-operative target recognition between F-22's and Su-27's, unless installed by 3rd parties onto both airplanes. The reality of IFF is much more complex than what I've described, and it is never relied upon 100%.

And no, there's no IFF on an AIM-9.
this coding and decoding looks too complex to me.:undecided:
 
.
Sidewinder (L) case comes later ... when u have pressed the button .. u cant do anything then.
But recognising a F-16 as a friendly target is Radar's job. PAF pilot must be using radar to monitor A2A battle.
Didn't he get a friendly Target warning, when the Sidewinder light turn green ?
Or this technology is applicable for BWR engagement only.
Or he was engaging an visual target, ignoring the Radar completely.
Or our birds were not that capable to specify the flying objects.

If I remember correctly, it was reported that W/C Amjad acquired the bogey and fired a "Papa" round, after the missile left his aircraft, his No.2 who was chasing another enemy aircraft flew across the line of fire.
 
. .
IFF does confirm wether the other guy is a friendly, but it does not positively identify him as the enemy, he could not return the same code, wrong key, or damage, but while it can be positively identified as a friendly, but not as a foe
 
.
yar chor do jan baycharay F-16 ki.
for how long we will keep on speculating abt the capabilities of f-16.there were speculations abt F-16's cfts,amraams,kill switch, etc n now regarding IFF.i think paf will have to publicize the full capabilites of f-16 to remove all sorts of doubts.we pakistanis r very good at creating hilarious rumors like america brought flood last year,america was responsible for the earth quake of 2005 etc....after a few days there will be another thread.....pakistani F-16s dont have any engine in them.........wikileaks....n people will be calling names to US
 
.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom