Friend and foe problem with F 16

[Patriot]

If this IFF software will not allow F-16's to shoot other F-16s, explain this :

"One F-16 was lost in these battles during an encounter between two F-16s and six Afghan Air Force aircraft on 29 April 1987, stated by the PAF to have been an fratricide because it was hit by an AIM-9 Sidewinder fired from amother F-16. The pilot, Flight Lieutenant Shahid Sikandar Khan, ejected safely."

In short, I am very sceptical that an IFF cannot be over ridden.

This was not intentional so to speak - The F16 pilot fired the missile at the wrong time and the other F16 was in path of the missile hence was not lucky.Another similar case in Desert Storm where An American F15 almost shot down his wing man because when he launched the missile on the mig his wing man was in front of his jet and 5000 feet above..the wingman started to descend because he was locked on by the mig and actually saw the missile from his canopy.Just few feet lower and he would have been killed due to missile hitting his F15 instead of the mig.If a normal F15's locks another F15 it shows a diamond on scope which means it is a friendly (Source: F15's fighter Pilots interview on Youtube.)..Obviously if they belong to different air forces i would imagine they'd be able to shoot each other down as Greek F16s lock onto Turkish F16's now and then.

 

[Windjammer]

Yes, there as we know are only actualy 7 stories in the world thus there are actually only 7 threads that can be created any illusion that there are more than 7 is only because of creative writing in the title.

The seven are
1. 'Tragedy'. Hero with a fatal flaw meets tragic end. Macbeth or threads about war with India

2. 'Comedy'. Not necessary laugh-out-loud, or treads about war with the US.

3. 'Overcoming the Monster'. As in Frankenstein or 'Jaws'or threads about the CIA

4. 'Voyage and Return'. Booker argues that stories as diverse as Alice in Wonderland and H G Wells' The Time Machine and threads written by people in the UK and Canada about how much better it is in Karachi.

5. 'Quest'. Whether the quest is for a holy grail, a whale, or a kidnapped child it is the plot that links a lot of the most popular fiction treads about the Muslim ummah.

6. 'Rags to Riches'. The riches in question can be literal or metaphoric. Threads about if the US would stop giving Pakistan billions everyone would be rich.

7. 'Rebirth'. The 'rebirth' plot - where a central character suddenly finds a new reason for living - I.Khan political threads

Allow me to add one more to these......

There was once an Indian and an Pakistani who were neighbours. The Pakistani owned a hen and each morning would look in his garden and pick up one of his hen's eggs for breakfast.

One day he looked into his garden and saw that the hen had laid an egg in the Indian's garden. He was about to go for it when he saw the Indian pick up the egg. The Pakistani ran up to the Indian and told him that the egg belonged to him because he owned the hen. The Indian disagreed because the egg was laid in his garden.

They argued for a while until finally the Pakistani said, "In my family we normally solve disputes by the following actions: I kick you in the ba*** and time how long it takes you to get back up, then you kick me in the ba*** and time how long it takes for me to get up, who ever gets up quicker wins the egg."

The Indian agreed to this and so the Pakistani found his heaviest pair of boots and put them on, he took a few steps back, then ran toward the Indian and kicked as hard as he could in the ba***. The Indian fell to the floor clutching his nuts howling in agony for 30 minutes.

Eventually the Indian stood up and said, "Now it's my turn to kick you."

The Pakistani said, "Keep the damn egg!"

 

[Perceptron]

Yes, there as we know are only actualy 7 stories in the world thus there are actually only 7 threads that can be created any illusion that there are more than 7 is only because of creative writing in the title.

The seven are
1. 'Tragedy'. Hero with a fatal flaw meets tragic end. Macbeth or threads about war with India

2. 'Comedy'. Not necessary laugh-out-loud, or treads about war with the US.

3. 'Overcoming the Monster'. As in Frankenstein or 'Jaws'or threads about the CIA

4. 'Voyage and Return'. Booker argues that stories as diverse as Alice in Wonderland and H G Wells' The Time Machine and threads written by people in the UK and Canada about how much better it is in Karachi.

5. 'Quest'. Whether the quest is for a holy grail, a whale, or a kidnapped child it is the plot that links a lot of the most popular fiction treads about the Muslim ummah.

6. 'Rags to Riches'. The riches in question can be literal or metaphoric. Threads about if the US would stop giving Pakistan billions everyone would be rich.

7. 'Rebirth'. The 'rebirth' plot - where a central character suddenly finds a new reason for living - I.Khan political threads

Awesome humor there sir !!! This has got to be among the most hilarious posts in PDF !!!

 

[Roybot]

Allow me to add one more to these......

Yeah the story goes the other way round.

 

[Perceptron]

Allow me to add one more to these......

There was once an Indian and an Pakistani who were neighbours. The Pakistani owned a hen and each morning would look in his garden and pick up one of his hen's eggs for breakfast.

One day he looked into his garden and saw that the hen had laid an egg in the Indian's garden. He was about to go for it when he saw the Indian pick up the egg. The Pakistani ran up to the Indian and told him that the egg belonged to him because he owned the hen. The Indian disagreed because the egg was laid in his garden.

They argued for a while until finally the Pakistani said, "In my family we normally solve disputes by the following actions: I kick you in the ba*** and time how long it takes you to get back up, then you kick me in the ba*** and time how long it takes for me to get up, who ever gets up quicker wins the egg."

The Indian agreed to this and so the Pakistani found his heaviest pair of boots and put them on, he took a few steps back, then ran toward the Indian and kicked as hard as he could in the ba***. The Indian fell to the floor clutching his nuts howling in agony for 30 minutes.

Eventually the Indian stood up and said, "Now it's my turn to kick you."

The Pakistani said, "Keep the damn egg!"

Now that is what i call 7th century humor, just like the opium of life Bakistanis follow.

 

[Windjammer]

Now that is what i call 7th century humor, just like the opium of life Bakistanis follow.

And even back then, Indians high on something were slimy as today.

 

[Windjammer]

Duplicate.

 

[Windjammer]

Surprising that you don't know the language of your Holy book ; Well, the short of it is, Pakistanis are called Bakistanis, since there is no letter "P" in their language.

You are neither an Arab, nor are we discussing the Koran or religion......stick to the topic.

 

[SQ8]

If this IFF software will not allow F-16's to shoot other F-16s, explain this :

"One F-16 was lost in these battles during an encounter between two F-16s and six Afghan Air Force aircraft on 29 April 1987, stated by the PAF to have been an fratricide because it was hit by an AIM-9 Sidewinder fired from amother F-16. The pilot, Flight Lieutenant Shahid Sikandar Khan, ejected safely."

In short, I am very sceptical that an IFF cannot be over ridden.

---------- Post added at 04:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:46 AM ----------

Oh and by the way, Vassnti:

That was a fantastic piece of writing!!!! Deserves to be read by more members here. Please write one for the Indian kids and the Chinese members too!!!

The 9P is a "dumb" missile .. It looks for heat sources and not IFF..
Also.. in that engagement.. the wingman was positioning himself for his leader when he ended up in the FOV of the 9P's seeker. the Flt ldr heard a loud tone and thinking his missile had locked onto a Mig decided to fire before the enemy aircraft fled back to Afghanistan... unfortunately for the both of them.. the 9P had found a heat source.. just not the Mig.
Engagement windows in those times were within a minute or so.. sometimes even 30 seconds. Either make the kill in that limited time to ensure that the wreckage fell in Pakistani territory.. or end up with a serious diplomatic row.

 

[DV RULES]

Santro

What you think in any possible air interception F-16 C/D block can identify Indian fighter as foe? Has Pakistan got ability to change in IFF program of F-16 A/B? As in your previous post what credible role left by new F-16s if we can't change this setting? What was the purpose to buy these fighters if there is doubt that US can provide sensitive data of F-16s to India & Israel?

 

[VCheng]

Report: Israel no longer

.............................

Time to think Turkey then??

The IFF is but a subsystem; the rest of the software on the aircraft has multiple other pathways that can be used in various ways.

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

One weird thing ! Then how Paf pilot hit the Friendly Viper in Soviet-Afghan war.
wasn't that machine showing a friendly bird flying around.

 

[Windjammer]

One weird thing ! Then how Paf pilot hit the Friendly Viper in Soviet-Afghan war.
wasn't that machine showing a friendly bird flying around.

As Santro explained the "Papa" version of the Sidewinder has a heat seeker head, it will go after any heat source hence it's never fired when Sun is may be in the background. In this case, it went after the heat releasing exhaust of the F-16. The "Lima" is a different ball game.

 

[SQ8]

The IFF is but a subsystem; the rest of the software on the aircraft has multiple other pathways that can be used in various ways.

Depends on how many data paths??
not every data path is good for everything.
The IFF bypass may not work for the block 52's.. but it might work for the MLU jets.
However.. "Pattern" jets from the USAF indicate there have been specific instructions on how to MLU the PAF jets.
Whether the PAF command has any say in what it wants in its jets and what it doesn't is the moot point.

 

[VCheng]

Depends on how many data paths??
not every data path is good for everything.
The IFF bypass may not work for the block 52's.. but it might work for the MLU jets.
However.. "Pattern" jets from the USAF indicate there have been specific instructions on how to MLU the PAF jets.
Whether the PAF command has any say in what it wants in its jets and what it doesn't is the moot point.

Very interesting questions and comments, but I cannot go into those details.

However, I am sure that the PAF input is well catered for in the upgrades.