France to support bid to export next-generation tank to Indian Army

[INDIAPOSITIVE]

Web D
France to support bid to export next-generation tank to Indian Army
In June last year, 12 companies supplying main battle tanks received requests for information (RFIs) from the Indian government. The RFIs related to the supply of about 1,770 new tanks for the Indian Army under a programme dubbed the Future Ready Combat Vehicle (FRCV).
In the works for over a decade, the FRCV envisages the replacement of the Indian Army's fleet of Soviet-era T-72 tanks. The first of the new tanks are intended to enter service by 2030 and will feature advanced networking capabilities to communicate with both land and air forces. The value of the FRCV contract was earlier estimated to be around $5 billion. France's Nexter was one of the companies to receive the RFI, along with firms in Russia, Israel, Europe, Turkey and the US.

Last week, the French government informed the National Assembly, the country's lower house of Parliament, it would support Nexter's industrial proposal for India. The FRCV project envisions manufacturing of the selected tank in India with a 'strategic partner'.
The French government's response was published on December 28 and came in response to a question from Nicolas Dupont-Aignan, a deputy in the National Assembly. Asking about India's FRCV project, Dupont-Aignan had called for resuming production of Nexter's existing Leclerc tank. The French Army had inducted a total of 406 Leclerc tanks by the mid-2000s. The Leclerc has also been exported to the UAE, which donated dozens of the type to Jordan.

In his question, Dupont-Aignan pointed out that France was modernising only around 200 Leclerc tanks for use until 2040. Dupont-Aignan pointed out that “during the next 20 years nothing is planned to effectively reinforce the heavy land combat means” of the French Army. He argued that Nexter winning the FRCV contract would mean separate production lines for the Leclerc in both France and India that would make “purchase price of this tank particularly competitive, both for the Indian and French armies and for export”.
He argued France needed at least 400 tanks. Dupont-Aignan also pointed to the possibility of sharing with India the cost of developing specialised versions of the Leclerc for purposes such as command vehicle, artillery platform and anti-aircraft defence.
In its response to Dupont-Aignan, the French government said it would ensure attention to synergies “that may exist between the needs of the Indian armies and our national needs”.

The Leclerc
In his question, Dupont-Aignan noted, “The Leclerc tank with its mass of only 55 tons, its good mobility with its 1,500 hp engine and the excellence of its turret and firing system, is very well placed” to win the FRCV contract.
The Leclerc is lighter than most major Western tanks such as the US M1 Abrams, British Challenger and German Leopard 2, all of which weigh over 60 tonnes.


The Leclerc also has a three-man crew, unlike the other three Western designs, with the 'loader' absent. In place of the loader, a soldier who manually inserts rounds into the gun, the Leclerc has an 'autoloader' device for the purpose; Russian tanks such as the T-72 and T-90 also have auto-loaders. The Leclerc also has an advanced communications system to network with ground and air units.

The Leclerc tanks of the French Army are currently being upgraded to the Leclerc XLR standard, which would feature a modular armour package, new combat information system, radios, jammers and remotely operated machine gun.

Nexter is working on a futuristic tank project with Germany's Krauss Maffei Wegmann for a common tank to replace the Leclerc and Leopard 2, but the vehicles are unlikely to enter mass production by 2040. The French government's response in the National Assembly did not specify what kind of tank Nexter would offer to India.

France to support bid to export next-generation tank to Indian Army

A French lawmaker has called for further production of Nexter's Leclerc tank

www.theweek.in

 

[Tshering22]

Web D
France to support bid to export next-generation tank to Indian Army
In June last year, 12 companies supplying main battle tanks received requests for information (RFIs) from the Indian government. The RFIs related to the supply of about 1,770 new tanks for the Indian Army under a programme dubbed the Future Ready Combat Vehicle (FRCV).
In the works for over a decade, the FRCV envisages the replacement of the Indian Army's fleet of Soviet-era T-72 tanks. The first of the new tanks are intended to enter service by 2030 and will feature advanced networking capabilities to communicate with both land and air forces. The value of the FRCV contract was earlier estimated to be around $5 billion. France's Nexter was one of the companies to receive the RFI, along with firms in Russia, Israel, Europe, Turkey and the US.

Last week, the French government informed the National Assembly, the country's lower house of Parliament, it would support Nexter's industrial proposal for India. The FRCV project envisions manufacturing of the selected tank in India with a 'strategic partner'.
The French government's response was published on December 28 and came in response to a question from Nicolas Dupont-Aignan, a deputy in the National Assembly. Asking about India's FRCV project, Dupont-Aignan had called for resuming production of Nexter's existing Leclerc tank. The French Army had inducted a total of 406 Leclerc tanks by the mid-2000s. The Leclerc has also been exported to the UAE, which donated dozens of the type to Jordan.

In his question, Dupont-Aignan pointed out that France was modernising only around 200 Leclerc tanks for use until 2040. Dupont-Aignan pointed out that “during the next 20 years nothing is planned to effectively reinforce the heavy land combat means” of the French Army. He argued that Nexter winning the FRCV contract would mean separate production lines for the Leclerc in both France and India that would make “purchase price of this tank particularly competitive, both for the Indian and French armies and for export”.
He argued France needed at least 400 tanks. Dupont-Aignan also pointed to the possibility of sharing with India the cost of developing specialised versions of the Leclerc for purposes such as command vehicle, artillery platform and anti-aircraft defence.
In its response to Dupont-Aignan, the French government said it would ensure attention to synergies “that may exist between the needs of the Indian armies and our national needs”.

The Leclerc
In his question, Dupont-Aignan noted, “The Leclerc tank with its mass of only 55 tons, its good mobility with its 1,500 hp engine and the excellence of its turret and firing system, is very well placed” to win the FRCV contract.
The Leclerc is lighter than most major Western tanks such as the US M1 Abrams, British Challenger and German Leopard 2, all of which weigh over 60 tonnes.


The Leclerc also has a three-man crew, unlike the other three Western designs, with the 'loader' absent. In place of the loader, a soldier who manually inserts rounds into the gun, the Leclerc has an 'autoloader' device for the purpose; Russian tanks such as the T-72 and T-90 also have auto-loaders. The Leclerc also has an advanced communications system to network with ground and air units.

The Leclerc tanks of the French Army are currently being upgraded to the Leclerc XLR standard, which would feature a modular armour package, new combat information system, radios, jammers and remotely operated machine gun.

Nexter is working on a futuristic tank project with Germany's Krauss Maffei Wegmann for a common tank to replace the Leclerc and Leopard 2, but the vehicles are unlikely to enter mass production by 2040. The French government's response in the National Assembly did not specify what kind of tank Nexter would offer to India.

France to support bid to export next-generation tank to Indian Army

A French lawmaker has called for further production of Nexter's Leclerc tank

www.theweek.in

Leclerc 2 and T-14 Armata? That would be an interesting competition. Though the Armata is almost confirmed given the volley of discussions between India and Russia.

However, I am very much against the light tank project (Sprut) and would rather have mobile gun system turrets mounted on TATA Kestrels deployed in the mountains. Mountain warfare for tanks especially in the lofty Himalayas is very different from the typical tank warfare used. Kestrels are lightly armoured but are nimble and can be deployed in larger numbers. Spending money on a lighter tank just for this purpose does not make sense.

 

[vishwambhar]

Though I love ARMATA because of it's futuristic design Leclerk too was my first love in tanks..... I would love to see this beast in Indian military..... which one is more powerful???

Experts please.....
@iLION12345_1 sorry bro to disturb but which tank is good in your opinion between ARMATA and LECLERK....

 

[iLION12345_1]

Though I love ARMATA because of it's futuristic design Leclerk too was my first love in tanks..... I would love to see this beast in Indian military..... which one is more powerful???

Experts please.....
@iLION12345_1 sorry bro to disturb but which tank is good in your opinion between ARMATA and LECLERK....

Well the basic tanks themselves were introduced quite some time apart (1993 versus 2015). Leclerc XLR (the current latest variant) is more comparable to the Leo 2A7V and M1A2C SEPV3 (latest variants of Leo 2 and Abrams respectively) and even then I’d give the edge to the German and American offering.

if France does participate in this tender I have no doubt they’d have to remake or massively upgrade the tank for it to compare to whatever else is on offer by the late 2020s/early 2030s (which is when India intends to buy a new tank). So maybe they’ll bring it on par with the other offerings.

However as it stands in 2021, The T-14 is still the most superior tank on paper (that is until the production issues are taken into account). With Leo 2A7V imo being the second best (best when production is taken into account), the T90MS provyv 3 and M1A2C give it good company, while others like the upcoming Challenger 3 and current Leclerc XLR, VT-4P and ZTZ-99A (which itself is in need of an upgrade) are not too far behind depending on the specific characteristics like mobility, firepower etc
None of these are bad tanks, just better at certain things as required by the user.

However one other major issue that may exist with india buying a French/western tank is logistics given they’d need to buy completely new ammo supplies (unless modifications are made to equip the French tanks with 125MM Russian style guns and make the tanks use Russian ammo). Even then the Indian tank doctrine and logistics would need a major overhaul to support this massive change (kind of a mashup of logistics as seen in the Egyptian army). It is doable, but it may be a lot more expensive than going for a newer Russian option, it also largely depends on how much France is willing to modify the Leclerc to suit Indian logistics, something that has been an issue in the past (for example: not giving IAF permission to use Euro/french missiles with Russian or Israeli radars present in Tejas and SU30).

Keep in mind that when a country like India intends to make a big defense purchase, companies will often make India-specific versions of their products because the design effort and cost is worth it given the large order india will be placing, with that in mind, Indian options are very open, because they can take any countries tank and (given the company/country is okay with it) modify it to their standards and then buy those/produce them locally.

either way, I don’t see India buy new tanks just yet, so we’ll have to wait a few years before we can see what india is after, the RFI does give some indication, but it’s not really binding, just a general layout, requirements can change rapidly.

i will as always press on the fact that india needs a stop gap until it gets new tanks, and the best stop gap is to modernize its T90S tanks, which unfortunately it seems to have no intentions of doing so far. This is also important because Indias new tank likely won’t replace the T90S, only the T72, so keeping them in service is important. As of now it seems that india is banking on the superiority of its other arms to make up for its lower armored capability, but you know how it is with india and Pakistan, they always make purchases to counter each other, sometimes Pakistan makes a big buy, sometimes india does it.

Tank combat is less relevant in the india-China theatre but light tanks come into play there a lot, something China has plenty of and india is interested in, but will be going for a foreign offering, let’s see what they go for, there are fewer options in this regard.

 

[vishwambhar]

Well the basic tanks themselves were introduced quite some time apart (1993 versus 2015). Leclerc XLR (the current latest variant) is more comparable to the Leo 2A7V and M1A2C SEPV3 (latest variants of Leo 2 and Abrams respectively) and even then I’d give the edge to the German and American offering.

if France does participate in this tender I have no doubt they’d have to remake or massively upgrade the tank for it to compare to whatever else is on offer by the late 2020s/early 2030s (which is when India intends to buy a new tank). So maybe they’ll bring it on par with the other offerings.

However as it stands in 2021, The T-14 is still the most superior tank on paper (that is until the production issues are taken into account). With Leo 2A7V imo being the second best (best when production is taken into account), the T90MS provyv 3 and M1A2C give it good company, while others like the upcoming Challenger 3 and current Leclerc XLR, VT-4P and ZTZ-99A (which itself is in need of an upgrade) are not too far behind depending on the specific characteristics like mobility, firepower etc
None of these are bad tanks, just better at certain things as required by the user.

However one other major issue that may exist with india buying a French/western tank is logistics given they’d need to buy completely new ammo supplies (unless modifications are made to equip the French tanks with 125MM Russian style guns and make the tanks use Russian ammo). Even then the Indian tank doctrine and logistics would need a major overhaul to support this massive change (kind of a mashup of logistics as seen in the Egyptian army). It is doable, but it may be a lot more expensive than going for a newer Russian option, it also largely depends on how much France is willing to modify the Leclerc to suit Indian logistics, something that has been an issue in the past (for example: not giving IAF permission to use Euro/french missiles with Russian or Israeli radars present in Tejas and SU30).

Keep in mind that when a country like India intends to make a big defense purchase, companies will often make India-specific versions of their products because the design effort and cost is worth it given the large order india will be placing, with that in mind, Indian options are very open, because they can take any countries tank and (given the company/country is okay with it) modify it to their standards and then buy those/produce them locally.

either way, I don’t see India buy new tanks just yet, so we’ll have to wait a few years before we can see what india is after, the RFI does give some indication, but it’s not really binding, just a general layout, requirements can change rapidly.

i will as always press on the fact that india needs a stop gap until it gets new tanks, and the best stop gap is to modernize its T90S tanks, which unfortunately it seems to have no intentions of doing so far. This is also important because Indias new tank likely won’t replace the T90S, only the T72, so keeping them in service is important. As of now it seems that india is banking on the superiority of its other arms to make up for its lower armored capability, but you know how it is with india and Pakistan, they always make purchases to counter each other, sometimes Pakistan makes a big buy, sometimes india does it.

Tank combat is less relevant in the india-China theatre but light tanks come into play there a lot, something China has plenty of and india is interested in, but will be going for a foreign offering, let’s see what they go for, there are fewer options in this regard.

As usual great reply... thanks bro....

 

[lcloo]

Looks like the domestic designed tanks in India is doomed. Arjun will cry like a river.

 

[Tshering22]

Looks like the domestic designed tanks in India is doomed. Arjun will cry like a river.

I wouldn't say tanks; just the Arjun series as 60 tons is apparently too heavy. This is the consequence of not participating in the early development as reviewers. Politics and commissions trump long-term strategies.

 

[Akatosh]

T-90 are already being upgraded with new APU.
Very very recently winter trials of APS for T-90 were completed with order to be placed at beginning of next FY.

 

[iLION12345_1]

T-90 are already being upgraded with new APU.
Very very recently winter trials of APS for T-90 were completed with order to be placed at beginning of next FY.

APU is not an upgrade, it’s a basic necessity. Even Al-Zarrars have those.
Indian T90S tanks are getting pretty old and have absolutely no real upgrades planned or in the works. If you want to see what an upgrade is, look at the Al-Khalid-1 versus Al-Khalid.

I wouldn't say tanks; just the Arjun series as 60 tons is apparently too heavy. This is the consequence of not participating in the early development as reviewers. Politics and commissions trump long-term strategies.

Arjun is irrelevant to the IA, they have less than 200 of them in their 3000 strong fleet, and it’s going to stay that way given the next Indian tank is gonna be foreign. (unless they get their FMBT ready in time, which is a 50/50)

Why the Arjun is bad is a long and overdone topic, but Indian ground industries just in general seem to be behind Indian Air industries, some of the stuff india makes for its Jets (SU30s, Tejas etc) is impressive, including the missiles, and they’re continuing to improve, meanwhile Indian ground industries (tanks, artillery, rifles etc) are usually sub-par, not sure what’s up with that.

 

[FuturePAF]

I hope they go for the French Tank. Those storage closets won’t be much protection from modern tank rounds. Supposedly the storage closets can have armor added later on, but ...
There is also the cost of maintenance. So...

French are cashing in on their Indian cash cow while the use keeps Russia at bay with CAATSA. Smart business move by the French.

https://inf.news/en/military/c006edc793aab8b6a8af959ca11d0853.html

 

[Turingsage]

 

[Foinikas]

I hope they go for the French Tank. Those storage closets won’t be much protection from modern tank rounds. Supposedly the storage closets can have armor added later on, but ...
There is also the cost of maintenance. So...

French are cashing in on their Indian cash cow while the use keeps Russia at bay with CAATSA. Smart business move by the French.

https://inf.news/en/military/c006edc793aab8b6a8af959ca11d0853.html

That was one of the WORST and most biased RedEffect videos.

RedEffect might have some nice vids to watch,but a lot of them are biased or silly. He tends to overemphasize how good Soviet/Russian MBTs are and usually downplays every other MBT with the exception of German ones. The Russians tend to consider German tanks as equal to theirs.

You'll often find him praising the T-72 and stressing problems in the Abrams,Leclerc,Challenger 2 and other western and eastern tanks.


Personally,I'd love it if we had some 50 Leclercs in the Hellenic Army. The tank's performance in Yemen was great. It would be a waste if it went to the Indians. But hey,if they want to spend money...

 

[Turingsage]

French are cashing in on their Indian cash cow while the use keeps Russia at bay with CAATSA. Smart business move by the French.

But hey,if they want to spend money...

There is a huge bubbling concern about how we spend OUR OWN MONEY to buy weapon systems that WE HAVE CHOOSEN.

We do not have sugar daddies like the US or China that provide free and subsidised weapons for lying down and opening our legs wide open.

We PAY HARD CASH to retain our strategic independence, a price we consider ALWAYS worth paying . We do not go whoring for other countries interests.

 

[Foinikas]

There is a huge bubbling concern about how we spend OUR OWN MONEY to buy weapon systems that WE HAVE CHOOSEN.

We do not have sugar daddies like the US or China that provide free and subsidised weapons for lying down and opening our legs wide open.

We PAY HARD CASH to retain our strategic independence, a price we consider ALWAYS worth paying . We do not go whoring for other countries interests.

Like I said,it's your money. You want to buy all that stuff,buy it. It's your money. It's just a pity to see masterpieces like the Rafale sold to an Air Force that can't use it properly...

 

[Bossman]

There is a huge bubbling concern about how we spend OUR OWN MONEY to buy weapon systems that WE HAVE CHOOSEN.
We do not have sugar daddies like the US or China that provide free and subsidised weapons for lying down and opening our legs wide open.

We PAY HARD CASH to retain our strategic independence, a price we consider ALWAYS worth paying . We do not go whoring for other countries interests.

For most of your history you had a sugar daddy called the Soviet Union. India could not have done what it did in 71 without the Sugar Daddy that is when Pakistan was under a US embargo and China had its own internal challenges.