France to provide combat copters

[TOPGUN]

we asked them for nuke tech and they are offering tiger heli very cunfusing

Haha very true super falcon ! coming back to the heli part i still think tiger's price tag is i still say ask the US for super cobra's prob solved!

 

[Arsalan]

Haha very true super falcon ! coming back to the heli part i still think tiger's price tag is i still say ask the US for super cobra's prob solved!

sir with all respect, this is not the case as far as i am concerned!
infact, for me it goes like :
ask the US for super cobra's, if you get them, a big prob is comming your way!

we must NOT relay on the US anymore sir, these post by you is on the same lines we must have thought when we were getting the F16 and look what a mess is now created of them! spare part were gone for almost a decade, the one we sadly have to call "the lost decade"!
large sum of our money is blocked in face of F16 block 15 which never came to us in due time and now we will have to spend millions of dollars to keep them flying, i mean you cannot fly a Blk15 in these days just based on your trust on "man behinde the machine" the poor soul cannot do anything!

the post may seem to be a bit broken and this is all out of excitement! i am a Big supporter of NO US equipment group!

it will be better to fly Nothing rather then to relay on the wings of US!

regards!

 

[Munir]

This could be the offer...

AS550 Fennec
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=175075&d=1248212562

 

[TOPGUN]

sir with all respect, this is not the case as far as i am concerned!
infact, for me it goes like :
ask the US for super cobra's, if you get them, a big prob is comming your way!

we must NOT relay on the US anymore sir, these post by you is on the same lines we must have thought when we were getting the F16 and look what a mess is now created of them! spare part were gone for almost a decade, the one we sadly have to call "the lost decade"!
large sum of our money is blocked in face of F16 block 15 which never came to us in due time and now we will have to spend millions of dollars to keep them flying, i mean you cannot fly a Blk15 in these days just based on your trust on "man behinde the machine" the poor soul cannot do anything!

the post may seem to be a bit broken and this is all out of excitement! i am a Big supporter of NO US equipment group!

it will be better to fly Nothing rather then to relay on the wings of US!

regards!

Yes i do agree in away !

 

[Irfan Baloch]

sir with all respect, this is not the case as far as i am concerned!
infact, for me it goes like :
ask the US for super cobra's, if you get them, a big prob is comming your way!

we must NOT relay on the US anymore sir, these post by you is on the same lines we must have thought when we were getting the F16 and look what a mess is now created of them! spare part were gone for almost a decade, the one we sadly have to call "the lost decade"!
large sum of our money is blocked in face of F16 block 15 which never came to us in due time and now we will have to spend millions of dollars to keep them flying, i mean you cannot fly a Blk15 in these days just based on your trust on "man behinde the machine" the poor soul cannot do anything!

the post may seem to be a bit broken and this is all out of excitement! i am a Big supporter of NO US equipment group!

it will be better to fly Nothing rather then to relay on the wings of US!

regards!

nothing to be emotional about.. its all down to national interests and foreign policies that are never based on morality or fairness.

so we have to come out of this mindset of "betrayed friend" there is no such thing as friendship in the international relationships.

what proof do we have that france wont follow the same suit and stop future spare parts etc? just see the facts and base our future planning based on facts (minus the emotions) the past history regarding US and Pakistan is a good lesson but lets just move on. if we get a better deal with say ToT then why refuse it?

 

[Arsalan]

nothing to be emotional about.. its all down to national interests and foreign policies that are never based on morality or fairness.

so we have to come out of this mindset of "betrayed friend" there is no such thing as friendship in the international relationships.

what proof do we have that france wont follow the same suit and stop future spare parts etc? just see the facts and base our future planning based on facts (minus the emotions) the past history regarding US and Pakistan is a good lesson but lets just move on. if we get a better deal with say ToT then why refuse it?

ha ha,, well friend you always have been a strong supporter of Pak-US F16 deal! i still remember those long debates we were involved in on this topic

anyway i agree with the point that in international there is not much meaning of the word "friendship". what matters most is intrest! China is our good friend,but, they also have there intrestes associated with us! i do not mean to say that the chines are bing mean and selfish to us. they could have treated us the same way the russians treat the indians, as they do not do so, this means that they are our friends. we can say that our mutual intrestes associated with each other have made us sincere friends of one another!

there is also no doubt the french can do the same with us but wont you agree that there is a good weightage of previous experiences! our experience with french have been really fine and those with the US,....,....,....,..., i dont wann comment! i gess you will understand it yourself!
yes the ToT is a real plus for that deal but do you think it will be ever there for our taking !

regards!

 

[Irfan Baloch]

ha ha,, well friend you always have been a strong supporter of Pak-US F16 deal! i still remember those long debates we were involved in on this topic

anyway i agree with the point that in international there is not much meaning of the word "friendship". what matters most is intrest! China is our good friend,but, they also have there intrestes associated with us! i do not mean to say that the chines are bing mean and selfish to us. they could have treated us the same way the russians treat the indians, as they do not do so, this means that they are our friends. we can say that our mutual intrestes associated with each other have made us sincere friends of one another!

there is also no doubt the french can do the same with us but wont you agree that there is a good weightage of previous experiences! our experience with french have been really fine and those with the US,....,....,....,..., i dont wann comment! i gess you will understand it yourself!
yes the ToT is a real plus for that deal but do you think it will be ever there for our taking !

regards!

agree with the point about past US experience
agree with the point about our partnership/ firendship with China
agree also about France V USA experience

the only downside when it comes to France is... every thing is so expensive that it is almost unavailable.



having said that
Pakistan's Mirage rebuild factory is ISO 9000 certified. correct me if I am wrong not wrong may be Pakistan is producing some old Miragee stuff under licence of Desault. so maybe there are future possibilites of sharing some projects that will cut the costs and help Both countries in the Exports making their products more viable. these are all longs shots but if such thing happens with rafale. boy that will be something. the plane can become more attractive to the international market which can help France as well and no doubt Pakistan will be the biggest benificary. we live in hope dont we?

at this moment I guess if we can secure some westren avionics and weapon systems ToT and incorporate in JF 7 blocks and eventually the J 10s I am sure this will be even better in terms of reliability, local expertise, saving foreign exchange and not compromising quallity and technology.

sorry for talking about so many things at a time just thinking loud. for Pakistan the options are very limited. we have to show the world that we are dependable, stable and responsible country which can look after it self economically and ideologically if we prove that then my friend, you and I will be laughing as we will see countries in line requesting partnership deals in defence, science, techology and ecnomic development.

Pakistan Zindabad.

 

[Arsalan]

agree with the point about past US experience
agree with the point about our partnership/ firendship with China
agree also about France V USA experience

the only downside when it comes to France is... every thing is so expensive that it is almost unavailable.



having said that
Pakistan's Mirage rebuild factory is ISO 9000 certified. correct me if I am wrong not wrong may be Pakistan is producing some old Miragee stuff under licence of Desault. so maybe there are future possibilites of sharing some projects that will cut the costs and help Both countries in the Exports making their products more viable. these are all longs shots but if such thing happens with rafale. boy that will be something. the plane can become more attractive to the international market which can help France as well and no doubt Pakistan will be the biggest benificary. we live in hope dont we?

at this moment I guess if we can secure some westren avionics and weapon systems ToT and incorporate in JF 7 blocks and eventually the J 10s I am sure this will be even better in terms of reliability, local expertise, saving foreign exchange and not compromising quallity and technology.

sorry for talking about so many things at a time just thinking loud. for Pakistan the options are very limited. we have to show the world that we are dependable, stable and responsible country which can look after it self economically and ideologically if we prove that then my friend, you and I will be laughing as we will see countries in line requesting partnership deals in defence, science, techology and ecnomic development.

Pakistan Zindabad.

right, Pakistan have a good experience with mirage and perhaps they were the foundation stone of our JF project as it was the mirage programme and its upgrades to ROSE I,II and III standrd that provided our engineers witha real time training and maintainc=ance experience! though the F7 also provided with same technical insight into a planes avionics and structure!
and yes the frence are expensive but it is worth to get fewer plaes with the same money rather then getting nothing from the US even after paying them!! isnt it??
about Rafale, there is no chance at present as we are will commited to JF and FC programmes and dont have the resources, both financila and manpower to hadle so many new systems. yes after 2015, when both these products are mature and we have had good experience with them, then perhaps PAF may go for two or thre squadrons to complement the FC20 in the high end role!

i hop you understand what i want to say!
regards!

 

[Mercenary]

Can Pakistan build its own attack helicopters?

I know India is building its own fleet of attack helicopters.....

If we can make our own missiles, submarines, jet fighters, tanks, then why not helicopter gunships...

heck even Iran has reverse engineered the Cobra and producing its copies....

We don't need advance avionics, but rugged machines in high quantity which can inflict significant damage on Indian Tank Forces as well as deal with terrorists within our borders

 

[Sinnerman108]

Useless unless it comes with some kind of TOT or BOT.
French will stripped of cash and can be pressed for a good deal.
The avionics, target tracking and night vision equipment, in addition
to the radar will be the the candy here.
As for the machine it self that russian design is far better,
and the chineese design will get there in a year or two.

 

[Super Falcon]

topgun this is a fake news as i know that french will sekk tiger to pakistan because tiger helicopter is not a project alone of france it is between germany,france and spain so selling tiger alone from france it is next to imposible because they have to pass it from spain and germany and pakistan does not have any big bags to buy tiger it is better to buy apache with same sort of money it is still not going to happen i think pakistan should wait for italian and turk attack helicopter because italy and turkey can sell pakistan this weapon germany is troubled country for pakistan to get weapons U 214 is example of this

 

[HAIDER]

Its official

ISLAMABAD, July 23 (Xinhua) -- France is keen to open a new chapter of relationship with Pakistan for strengthening democracy and its efforts to curb terrorism, French Minister for Foreign Trade Anne Marie Idrac said Thursday.

On her first visit to Pakistan, Anne Marie said France wants to further strengthen the economic and defense ties with Pakistan while addressing a press conference here.

Anne Marie said that main objectives of her visit was to finalize framework on different trade and economic subjects before the visit of French President Nicolas Sarkozy late this year.

She said France would cooperate in transportation, energy, food industry and agriculture developmental for the economical progress and prosperity.

France will also provide Pakistan with modern technology including Fennec Helicopter for curbing terrorism, she added.

She said French private companies would sign their agreements after the visit by President Sarkozy to enhance bilateral trade and defense relations between the two countries.

She said that her country had provided 2.3 million Euros for rehabilitation of internally displaced persons, adding that additional 10 million Euros had been given for supplying food to them.

Anne said that France would also provide 300 million Euros during next three years (2009-2011) for social economic development which had been announced in Friends of Democratic Pakistan Conference. (1 U.S. dollar equals about 0.7 Euros )
France keen to further strengthen ties with Pakistan_English_Xinhua

 

[TaimiKhan]

well in today's Dawn news front page, the french trade minister Ms.Anne Marie Idrac said that there would be no nuclear deal rather nuclear safety related things, plus Tiger Attack helicopters won't be provided as Pakistan needs help on emergency basis, and french can't even supply their own french army with these attack helicopters in such a short period, and yes Fennec helicopters were mentioned, but no decision yet finalized, PA will make the decision.

Dawn News, 24th July 2009

 

[TaimiKhan]

In my opinion, Pakistan should wait or ask the chinese to let them try the Z-10 attack helicopter, if it suits PA needs, then PA should wait for them and get some additional cobra helicopters to fill the gap, if somehow Z-10 is not up to our standard (which i doubt ), then from right now PA should go & invest with Turkish Attack helicopter T-129 as its gonna be an excellent helicopter for our needs.
We won't have to fear much about sanctions, and if we get a large number of these helicopters, we can manufacture some critical spare parts here in Pakistan to be sanction proof to some extent.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

In my opinion, Pakistan should wait or ask the chinese to let them try the Z-10 attack helicopter, if it suits PA needs, then PA should wait for them and get some additional cobra helicopters to fill the gap, if somehow Z-10 is not up to our standard (which i doubt ), then from right now PA should go & invest with Turkish Attack helicopter T-129 as its gonna be an excellent helicopter for our needs.
We won't have to fear much about sanctions, and if we get a large number of these helicopters, we can manufacture some critical spare parts here in Pakistan to be sanction proof to some extent.

Z10 had many part from Canada and rest of Europe therefore Brition and US twisted the arms of other European countries to ban those items. hence Z10 is a frozen project. so it will be always a question mark.

same goes with Turkish copter. I doubt if it will be 100% locally built. if it has American parts then again Turkey wont be able to seel it to us. just like they are not allowed to sell their F16s they make.

there arent many countries that build all the items and the combat patform from scratch and the one that do that and sell them to other countries always put conditions. this is also the reason why Sweden's SAAB Griphen coouldnt be sold to Pakistan because it had American parts in it.

all part of fun. we are suck withF7 and J thunder .. we have to hope and pray to Allah that these things fullfill our needs