France - Pakistan , Avionics & possibly Plane deal revival, Post cancellation of MRCA

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well the F16 was not a complete (what is the word , undesirable plane), it is just that the red tape associated with it is not very "customer" friendly. Working with US has been fruitful. The two nations have some history in cooperation etc

Just that like Egypt it is good to develop good business ties with different suppliers for better customer service

RAFALE is a different plane - different role

I am sure F16 would still be there growing gradually etc It plays a vital role in Western frontier , however the need is for a plane for other duties and in abundance so we can take it easy for 10-15 years

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Hi,

If there is one service that can use the stamp " I AM STUPID "---that is PAF----. Their arrogance & ignorance always get in the way of better judgement.

We 60 years old people already know that the terms with the U S are going to be hot and going to be cold---3-4 years hot---8-10 years cold---.

Nothing new---nothing special---.

That is why--I don't understand and cannot comprehend that how did the Paf fck up so bad on the procurement---.

The Rafale was available in 2002-03-04. France was desperate for Pakistan to buy these aircraft---.

You are ABSOLUTELY right

Your countrymen do not appreciate this fact

PAF can get and BUY RAFALE ( ie if they have the money )

Just like PAF has got F 16 Block 52 ; with Guarentees to USA

But JF 17 avionics is DIFFICULT because of the China Factor

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/IJ10Df01.html

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

You are ABSOLUTELY right

Your countrymen do not appreciate this fact

PAF can get and BUY RAFALE ( ie if they have the money )

Just like PAF has got F 16 Block 52 ; with Guarentees to USA

But JF 17 avionics is DIFFICULT because of the China Factor

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/IJ10Df01.html

Well the JF17 Thunders / Avionics is for our local force ^_^ nice try however
Avionics is hardly a secret field

China already make quite a bit of the Avionics sector on their own

However , the discussion is about RAFALE or french avionics deal with Pakistan

 

[Thəorətic Muslim]

now we are a Bi-tch and being bi-tch slapped every other day by our neighbor.

If you think Pakistan's military will protect it from getting bit<h slapped all the time your wrong.

The Political and Economic spheres are necessary as well. Growth the fu<king economy and plenty of F-16, F-35s, Rafales, and Sukhoi 30s will be flying into Pakistan.

 

[ConcealCarry]

Hi,

Pakistanis did not give a sh-it about 17 dead french engineers----who were there in karachi building the most advanced submarines in asia. Don't now what to make of it, Pakistan (state) did not kill them, it is very likely RAW planned/financed activity, as is proven that military installation attacks are RAW financed.

Pakistan deceived france by cancelling the deal for the purchase of airbus aircraft and went for the boeing in HOPE for direct flights to the U S from pakistan----. I don't thank that was the reason, must have been the kickbacks that influenced Mushy

After supplying the boeings---the U S said---fck off no direct flights---. It does not happen like that, Planes were bought from Boeing, which has no say in TSA policy

As for the avionics---if you could find my older posts---I had wrote about it---the france would not give paf the avionics---.

Paf deceived itself one more time---it failed tactically one more time---.

Now---after getting the agosta---why would pakistan go to germany for subs---when france was ready to sell them newer subs---. Pakistan bought Agosta from sovereign funds and have the full rights to buy anything from anyone, maybe that was just a tactic for price negotiations may be there were some issues on the first Agosta deal with France, who knows? But we never bought any subs for whatever reason, so not a valid argument, even if it could be called that


We already had a proven and tested system---everything french that we procured---lasted a very long time and still we went shopping for the german subs---full of problems as the greeks found out later.

See---pakistan has been more deceitful to the french. For the french to put restrictions---the pressure has to be monumental---they even put sanctions on the israelis years ago---that is why the israeli stole the mirage blue prints---they put sanctions on the gun boats that they built for israel as well.

We have a longer history of dealing with them, we don't try to be smart pants like Indians, honesty and sincerity go a long way in business dealings but being indian you wouldn't know them, so take a chill pill and don't tell us what France will do or not do to us.

if France played hardball with India they will suck the blood out of Pakistan
i hate to put it - the price tag for the Rafales are ridiculous

40 Rafales for the PAF would cost $9 billion

Loss calculation doesn't work like that LOL

Lol you know we are flying most french planes in world

Considering the Big set backs in French defense industry

a) The mistral deal (billions lost $5,000,000,000 USD)
Lost potential extra sale of Helicopter to third party, plus mistral

b) Indian MRCA (Billions lost $20,000,000,000 USD)
http://www.financialexpress.com/art...guarantee-for-20-bn-mmrca-deal-experts/63131/ (Price listed)

c) Now UAE refusing to buy RAFALE ($10,000,000,000) USD
http://www.defense-aerospace.com/ar...at-to-rafale-as-uae-look-at-super-hornet.html

Total Loss : 35,000,000,000 USD Billion Dollar


I think the environment is right to work with French

a) Thunder - Block 4
b) RAFALE (Fill Gap plane), if stealth plane is not needed or delayed , just order next batch


We might just need small batch of 45 planes like in 80's when we got our F16 and then keep option for another 80

 

[MastanKhan]

If you think Pakistan's military will protect it from getting bit<h slapped all the time your wrong.

The Political and Economic spheres are necessary as well. Growth the fu<king economy and plenty of F-16, F-35s, Rafales, and Sukhoi 30s will be flying into Pakistan.

Hi,

And economy is the problem----why has it been sabotaged for the 7-8 years---exactly for the same reason----.

They had the opportunity---and the y fckd up---donated the money for earthquake relief---which was basically squandered and stolen away.

Well the JF17 Thunders / Avionics is for our local force ^_^ nice try however
Avionics is hardly a secret field

China already make quite a bit of the Avionics sector on their own

However , the discussion is about RAFALE or french avionics deal with Pakistan

Hi,

Car sales 201 states that----you have to listen and acknowledge when the customer says NO----.

What it basically means----that look deeper into it and see if it is a REAL no----or is it just a wall that the cust is hiding behind---so then you basically research what it means.

What the French no is---you have to buy our primary aircraft---once you have that---we will give you other goodies as well.

Now if you look at it that way------if pakistan can get around 8 + 8 + 8 Rafales---there is a great chance that it can have the electronics package and engine for 250 JF17's---.

Which means that you will have an extra-extraordinary JF17 with the french package.

 

[untitled]

Avionics is hardly a secret field

Come again?

 

[MastanKhan]

Don't now what to make of it, Pakistan (state) did not kill them, it is very likely RAW planned/financed activity, as is proven that military installation attacks are RAW financed.

Hi,

I guess you have answered your own questions and statements by your comments.

 

[Thəorətic Muslim]

Hi,

And economy is the problem----why has it been sabotaged for the 7-8 years---exactly for the same reason----.

They had the opportunity---and the y fckd up---donated the money for earthquake relief---which was basically squandered and stolen away.

Oh sir.

The economic benefits of setting people on their feet is better than having them beg the government yearly for money.

Look at how much benefit Pakistan would get if it didn't have to hundreds of billions of rupees to failed PIA, PSM, and ALLAH who alim.

This same can be directed to analyse the benefit Pakistan got from the military branches donating to the people of Pakistan. The money they gave we can rest assured was received by the people affected and not the fat *** holes who you call politicians.

It was better the branches handed the money out than the government and more beneficial than spending on equipment.

Say what you want but you have to accept it.

Constant demands from the Soviet Military ultimately brought down the 'evil empire'.

 

[That Guy]

Pakistan should seriously think about aggressively pursuing French deals, show France that deal with Pakistan is a far easier and better prospect.

 

[wiseone2]

Well the JF17 Thunders / Avionics is for our local force ^_^ nice try however
Avionics is hardly a secret field

China already make quite a bit of the Avionics sector on their own

However , the discussion is about RAFALE or french avionics deal with Pakistan

If Chinese make avionics why bother with integration costs of French avionics ??

@Abingdonboy will not agree to the above figure

How so ?

9 to 11 billion euros were the numbers thrown around. It is 5x your entire air force budget

 

[salarsikander]

9 to 11 billion euros were the numbers thrown around. It is 5x your entire air force budget

Hi,
And yet is still struggling to procure jets for the last 12 years, Oh the Irony !

 

[Wolf]

ur right. Ge

Lol you know we are flying most french planes in world

Considering the Big set backs in French defense industry

a) The mistral deal (billions lost $5,000,000,000 USD)
Lost potential extra sale of Helicopter to third party, plus mistral

b) Indian MRCA (Billions lost $20,000,000,000 USD)
http://www.financialexpress.com/art...guarantee-for-20-bn-mmrca-deal-experts/63131/ (Price listed)

c) Now UAE refusing to buy RAFALE ($10,000,000,000) USD
http://www.defense-aerospace.com/ar...at-to-rafale-as-uae-look-at-super-hornet.html

Total Loss : 35,000,000,000 USD Billion Dollar


I think the environment is right to work with French

a) Thunder - Block 4
b) RAFALE (Fill Gap plane), if stealth plane is not needed or delayed , just order next batch


We might just need small batch of 45 planes like in 80's when we got our F16 and then keep option for another 80

You are right. Strike one big deal with French and it will hold good for JF 17s future prospects. A deal spread over 5 years for say 15 billion dollars $ for 100 Rafales and PAF will be OK for 25 years atleast. With JF 17 evolving further and a faster pace with french technologies, it will definitely be at par with F 16s in no time. Chinese and Arab financing can be arranged to minimize burden on Pakistan economy and to keep room for J 31.

 

[Dalit]

The Chinese avionics package is excellent. We don't need French avionics which will unnecessarily increase the cost of production unless it is really cutting edge. It is good to enquire and have a look, but the acquisition of an overly expensive avionics suite isn't sensible in my opinion. We always complain about cost and money...

 

[Wolf]

Who ORDERED European Countries to Impose an Arms EMBARGO on China

It was USA ; USA threatened Europe that if France and Germany do not stop Arms
sale to China ; there will be serious consequences

All this happened in 2005

USA does nt want any High tech goods to reach China

Its been 11 years and chinese are not lagging far behind in terms of technologies. Its a matter of time. World should understand that they will only worsen their economic woes if they try to play politics in arms market. I dont think so americans will be willing to compensate with billions of dollars to any european country who loses its market share due to american wishes. UNLESS of course americans and europeans start building spaceships. Furthermore, there is a lot more happening and availability in black markets. Countries such as China may get item of their choice and necessity from black market and reverse engineer it.

China today is not the China of 2005. It is even improved China compared to 2010.