France in Talks with Malaysia for Rafales

[SpArK]

France in Talks with Malaysia for Rafales


Nov 9, 2014

Kuala Lumpur - The French Defence Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian said Tuesday that he has covered the sale of Rafale fighters to Malaysia during his talks in Kuala Lumpur, the capital of this country of Southeast Asia.

The question of the fleet of fighter aircraft that Malaysia plans to renew has been " raised , "said Mr. Le Drian reporters in response to a question about the sale of Rafale, after interviews with senior Malaysian officials.

" We believe that the Rafale is a great plane, we are quite willing to have a partnership with Malaysia in this regard , "he has said after meeting with Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak and Minister Defense Hishammuddin Hussein, without going into details.

The French minister said that some discussions had to be "confidential "and that the choice belonged to Malaysia.

This country needs to renew its fleet of MiG in the coming years and the French firm Dassault is in the running. France and Malaysia have a close defense partnership of France and is the leading supplier of military equipment (helicopters, submarines, etc.) of the country of Southeast Asia.

During a visit to France last year, Mr. Razak was evasive about the possibility for the country to buy French Rafale fighter, while outlining the financial constraints of Malaysia.

With

En Malaisie, Le Drian aborde la vente de Rafale - LExpress.fr

 

[powastick]

French very shady. They are willing to give kickbacks to secure deals. Assassination are not limited to Malaysia only.

DCNS lawyer found dead, believed to be suicide - The Malaysian Insider

"Apart from the issues surrounding the sale of ships to Taiwan mentioned above, French prosecutors started investigating a wide range of corruption charges in 2010 involving different submarine sales, with possible bribery and kickbacks to top officials in France. In particular interest by the prosecutors are sales of Scorpène submarines to countries like India and Malaysia.[17] The investigation in Malaysia has been prompted by human rights group Suaram as it involved current Prime Minister Najib Tun Razak when he was defence minister and his friend Abdul Razak Baginda[18] whose company Primekar was alleged to be paid a huge commission during the purchase of two Scorpène submarines.[19] French investigators are interested in the fact that Perimekar was formed only a few months before the contract was signed with the Malaysian government and DCNS and that Primekar had no track record in servicing submarines and did not have the financial capability to support the contract.[20] Investigations have also revealed that a Hong Kong-based company called Terasasi Ltd in which the directors are Razak Baginda and his father, sold classified Malaysian navy defence documents to DCNS.[21] Also under scrutiny are allegations of extortion and the murder of Shaariibuugiin Altantuyaa, a translator who worked on the deal.[22]"

Very very shady.
2010 Nov 29 - Scorpene scandal gathers steam in France

 

[Aepsilons]

French very shady. They are willing to give kickbacks to secure deals. Assassination are not limited to Malaysia only.

DCNS lawyer found dead, believed to be suicide - The Malaysian Insider

"Apart from the issues surrounding the sale of ships to Taiwan mentioned above, French prosecutors started investigating a wide range of corruption charges in 2010 involving different submarine sales, with possible bribery and kickbacks to top officials in France. In particular interest by the prosecutors are sales of Scorpène submarines to countries like India and Malaysia.[17] The investigation in Malaysia has been prompted by human rights group Suaram as it involved current Prime Minister Najib Tun Razak when he was defence minister and his friend Abdul Razak Baginda[18] whose company Primekar was alleged to be paid a huge commission during the purchase of two Scorpène submarines.[19] French investigators are interested in the fact that Perimekar was formed only a few months before the contract was signed with the Malaysian government and DCNS and that Primekar had no track record in servicing submarines and did not have the financial capability to support the contract.[20] Investigations have also revealed that a Hong Kong-based company called Terasasi Ltd in which the directors are Razak Baginda and his father, sold classified Malaysian navy defence documents to DCNS.[21] Also under scrutiny are allegations of extortion and the murder of Shaariibuugiin Altantuyaa, a translator who worked on the deal.[22]"

Very very shady.
2010 Nov 29 - Scorpene scandal gathers steam in France

They're charging the Indians Government $20 Billion for 126 units of Rafales. That's a cost of $158 million (US Dollars) per plane. That's ridiculous and absolutely high way robbery.

Comparatively,

The US F-35IIAs costs $100 million per plane.

China's Chengdu J-10 costs $30 million per plane.

Sweden's JAS 39 Gripen costs $68 million per plane.

 

[rockstarIN]

They're charging the Indians Government $20 Billion for 126 units of Rafales. That's a cost of $158 million (US Dollars) per plane. That's ridiculous and absolutely high way robbery.

Comparatively,

The US F-35IIAs costs $100 million per plane.

China's Chengdu J-10 costs $30 million per plane.

Sweden's JAS 39 Gripen costs $68 million per plane.

Dude, that includes everything...not the fly away cost. If you goo and ask them, they will give you $100/120 mil per plane.

 

[Aepsilons]

Dude, that includes everything...not the fly away cost. If you goo and ask them, they will give you $100/120 mil per plane.

Still, it is overpriced, for Rafales. You understand that the cost of a F-35II A is $100 million, right?

Rafales are medium quality fighters, judging from their performance specs.

The French are laughing all the way to the bank.

 

[rockstarIN]

Still, it is overpriced, for Rafales. You understand that the cost of a F-35II A is $100 million, right?

Rafales are medium quality fighters, judging from their performance specs.

The French are laughing all the way to the bank.

Maintaining F-35 will be like hell, a 5th Gen jet which you can't afford in large numbers.

If you ask they will reduce the flyaway cost but increase the price in maintenance & spares.

 

[Aepsilons]

Maintaining F-35 will be like hell, a 5th Gen jet which you can't afford in large numbers.

It will not. Not since Japan's IHI (Ishikawajima Harima Heavy indutries) will be building factories in Japan to build parts , spares, for the Global F-35 Project. This will effectively reduce cost and maintenance cost for all 3000+ F-35s to be produced and the user countries.

 

[Cossack25A1]

Remember what the British poet and novelist Rudyard Kipling said about the French:

"Their business is war, and they do their business."

 

[Aepsilons]

Remember what the British poet and novelist Rudyard Kipling said about the French:

"Their business is war, and they do their business."

Very good reference. Yes, indeed. Tho I should also include the British as well.

 

[syedali73]

I personally doubt that Malaysia will ever go for another (they already have Su-30MK) 4.5 gen fighter and definitely not now. If Singapore choses to buy (most likely) F-35, then Malaysia will go for a 5th gen fighter, PAK-FA or Chinese ones.

 

[DarkElf]

Still, it is overpriced, for Rafales. You understand that the cost of a F-35II A is $100 million, right?

Rafales are medium quality fighters, judging from their performance specs.

The French are laughing all the way to the bank.

That's a fly away cost. For F-35 if you include everything that kind of price is not possible. Remember, Brazil paying $100million++ for their Gripen, even though the fly away cost for Gripen only around $50-60million.

 

[Aepsilons]

That's a fly away cost. For F-35 if you include everything that kind of price is not possible. Remember, Brazil paying $100million++ for their Gripen, even though the fly away cost for Gripen only around $50-60million.

The costs will decrease, actually. Before, the F-35 cost was at $140 million, but it went down to $100 million due to increased production , leading to reduction in cost. Its even estimated that the cost of the F-35 will further go down to say $80 million.

Again, i want to stay that Gripen is limited in use and production. Thus the cost issue. There is no comparison to the F-35, which have already over 3000 orders. And that's increasing as we speak.

Please refer:

Pentagon negotiates unit price reduction for next F-35 lot - IHS Jane's 360

 

[Zarvan]

France in Talks with Malaysia for Rafales


Nov 9, 2014

Kuala Lumpur - The French Defence Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian said Tuesday that he has covered the sale of Rafale fighters to Malaysia during his talks in Kuala Lumpur, the capital of this country of Southeast Asia.

The question of the fleet of fighter aircraft that Malaysia plans to renew has been " raised , "said Mr. Le Drian reporters in response to a question about the sale of Rafale, after interviews with senior Malaysian officials.

" We believe that the Rafale is a great plane, we are quite willing to have a partnership with Malaysia in this regard , "he has said after meeting with Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak and Minister Defense Hishammuddin Hussein, without going into details.

The French minister said that some discussions had to be "confidential "and that the choice belonged to Malaysia.

This country needs to renew its fleet of MiG in the coming years and the French firm Dassault is in the running. France and Malaysia have a close defense partnership of France and is the leading supplier of military equipment (helicopters, submarines, etc.) of the country of Southeast Asia.

During a visit to France last year, Mr. Razak was evasive about the possibility for the country to buy French Rafale fighter, while outlining the financial constraints of Malaysia.

With

En Malaisie, Le Drian aborde la vente de Rafale - LExpress.fr

Malaysia should have at least 4 squadrons off Rafale and over all 150 Fighter Jet at least

 

[The Great One]

They're charging the Indians Government $20 Billion for 126 units of Rafales. That's a cost of $158 million (US Dollars) per plane. That's ridiculous and absolutely high way robbery.

Comparatively,

The US F-35IIAs costs $100 million per plane.

China's Chengdu J-10 costs $30 million per plane.

Sweden's JAS 39 Gripen costs $68 million per plane.

Gripen's recent deal with Brazil cost some $125 million per plane.
F/A-18 SH sold to AUS too cost $135 million per plane.
Obviously they include system's cost/weapons/training/spares etc which we'll also get in the deal.

 

[DarkElf]

The costs will decrease, actually. Before, the F-35 cost was at $140 million, but it went down to $100 million due to increased production , leading to reduction in cost. Its even estimated that the cost of the F-35 will further go down to say $80 million.

Again, i want to stay that Gripen is limited in use and production. Thus the cost issue. There is no comparison to the F-35, which have already over 3000 orders. And that's increasing as we speak.

Please refer:

Pentagon negotiates unit price reduction for next F-35 lot - IHS Jane's 360

You still have misunderstanding. The quoted price is the price of the unit only, not include the spare part, etc. Remember the Korea F-35? They pay total $7.06b for 40 of it. It's not about the cost will decrease or not after larger order, but the way plane marketing speak. It's like if you buying a brand new car for $20k but you need to pay additional fee for paper work, rust protection, delivery, etc.

A good article that explain the different between F-35 fly away cost vs the package cost
How Much Does an F-35 Actually Cost? — War Is Boring — Medium

In a briefing delivered to reporters on June 9, F-35 developer Lockheed still advertised the cost of airplanes sans engines. Highly respected Aviation Week reported on July 22 that taxpayers put up $98 million for each F-35A in 2013.
In reality, we actually paid $188 million.

Some of these numbers are for the airframe only. In other cases, you get a “flyaway” cost. But in fact, those airplanes are incapable of operative flight. They lack the specialized tools, simulators, logistics computers—and much, much more—to make the airplane useable. They even lack the fuel to fly away.