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Foxbat over Pakistan the facts & fiction

Windjammer

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cobras.jpg

Cobras draw first blood as an Indian Canberra on a reconnaissance mission is shot down.

The Indians were cooking up something (They had completed the arrangements for a series of underground nuclear tests at Pokhran) and for that they were keen to know how Pakistan would react. On the other hand they also wanted to know about the operational status of the F-16 operations in Pakistan.

It was not a surprise when in May 1997, PAF radars picked up a high altitude track near the border. Two F-16s were immediately scrambled and vectored on to the possible path of the track which was now identified as an Indian MiG-25R flying at 70,000 ft. Initial vectors were passed to the F-16s as they prepared to initiate their zoom climb. The track was declared hostile as soon as it crossed the border into Pakistan. The APG-66 radar of the lead F-16 painted the track at a range of 92 km which continued to move inside Pakistan Air Space. The F-16s immediately initiated their zoom climb and climbed rapidly up to 50,000 ft. The mutual distance was reduced to less than 50 km and the F-16s were still climbing when they were told to disengage as the Foxbat had banked sharply, back into Indian Airspace. May it be haste (according to us) or an intension to rub our noses (according to the Indians), the Foxbat broke the sound barrier before exiting, making this engagement public.

History might have repeated itself had the Foxbat pressed on with the intrusion (In the past, an IAF Canberra continued to carry out its probing mission with two F-86 Sabres attempting an interception and were successful when the Canberra lost its height during a turn). The Indian pilot was well aware that if the F-16s were positioned 8 km below his aircraft, he would be in the firing range of the AIM-9L Sidewinder. Under these circumstances, any evasive maneuvering can make him loose his height and bring him into the clutches of the predators, lurking below him. It was this reason that he wisely disengaged rather than toy around with the F-16s.

The Indian MiG-25 Foxbat carried out various reccee missions near and over the Indo-Pak border in the past, but it never ventured deep into our airspace. The major reason was the fear of being shot down by the Pakistani Air Defenses. In the media it was claimed that nothing in the PAF is capable of reaching the cruising altitude of the MiG-25. To some extent this was true, but correct placement by the radar controller can always put it in danger of being shot down by Sidewinders. Similarly, PAF had the high altitude SAMs placed at VP/VAs to engage the Foxbat. It was for the F-16 and its reliable avionics and weapons' suite due to which it increased the probability of a Foxbat kill, and the Foxbat could never be utilized as intended by the Indians (Unopposed roaming deep inside Pakistan Airspace). USAF Vipers in DACT had outmaneuvered both the MiG-23 and MiG-25 in head-to-head tests, reaching speeds of up to Mach 2 at 60,000 ft ('Making of the Viper' Page 47), the PAF Vipers were fit enough to reach 60,000 ft. and take a shot at the Foxbat.
 
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cobras.jpg

Cobras draw first blood as an Indian Canberra on a reconnaissance mission is shot down.

The Indians were cooking up something (They had completed the arrangements for a series of underground nuclear tests at Pokhran) and for that they were keen to know how Pakistan would react. On the other hand they also wanted to know about the operational status of the F-16 operations in Pakistan.

It was not a surprise when in May 1997, PAF radars picked up a high altitude track near the border. Two F-16s were immediately scrambled and vectored on to the possible path of the track which was now identified as an Indian MiG-25R flying at 70,000 ft. Initial vectors were passed to the F-16s as they prepared to initiate their zoom climb. The track was declared hostile as soon as it crossed the border into Pakistan. The APG-66 radar of the lead F-16 painted the track at a range of 92 km which continued to move inside Pakistan Air Space. The F-16s immediately initiated their zoom climb and climbed rapidly up to 50,000 ft. The mutual distance was reduced to less than 50 km and the F-16s were still climbing when they were told to disengage as the Foxbat had banked sharply, back into Indian Airspace. May it be haste (according to us) or an intension to rub our noses (according to the Indians), the Foxbat broke the sound barrier before exiting, making this engagement public.

History might have repeated itself had the Foxbat pressed on with the intrusion (In the past, an IAF Canberra continued to carry out its probing mission with two F-86 Sabres attempting an interception and were successful when the Canberra lost its height during a turn). The Indian pilot was well aware that if the F-16s were positioned 8 km below his aircraft, he would be in the firing range of the AIM-9L Sidewinder. Under these circumstances, any evasive maneuvering can make him loose his height and bring him into the clutches of the predators, lurking below him. It was this reason that he wisely disengaged rather than toy around with the F-16s.

The Indian MiG-25 Foxbat carried out various reccee missions near and over the Indo-Pak border in the past, but it never ventured deep into our airspace. The major reason was the fear of being shot down by the Pakistani Air Defenses. In the media it was claimed that nothing in the PAF is capable of reaching the cruising altitude of the MiG-25. To some extent this was true, but correct placement by the radar controller can always put it in danger of being shot down by Sidewinders. Similarly, PAF had the high altitude SAMs placed at VP/VAs to engage the Foxbat. It was for the F-16 and its reliable avionics and weapons' suite due to which it increased the probability of a Foxbat kill, and the Foxbat could never be utilized as intended by the Indians (Unopposed roaming deep inside Pakistan Airspace). USAF Vipers in DACT had outmaneuvered both the MiG-23 and MiG-25 in head-to-head tests, reaching speeds of up to Mach 2 at 60,000 ft ('Making of the Viper' Page 47), the PAF Vipers were fit enough to reach 60,000 ft. and take a shot at the Foxbat.

F 16 service ceiling was 50000 feet

How could it engage the MIG 25 flying over 70000 feet

And in 1997 you had F 16 A / B with NO BVRAAM
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http://vayu-sena.tripod.com/other-1997mig25-1.html

Recce Incursion

Air Power International

By Peter Steinemann

Last May (1997), an Indian Force (IAF) Mikoyan MiG-25RB Foxbat-B reconnaissance aircraft created a furore when the pilot flew faster than Mach 2 over Pakistani territory following a reconnaissance mission into Pakistan airspace. The Foxbat broke the sound barrier while flying at an altitude of around 65,000 feet, otherwise the mission would have remained covert, at least to the general public. The Pakistan Government considered the breaking of the sound barrier as deliberate: to make the point that the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) has no aircraft in its inventory which can come close to the cruising height of the MiG-25 (up to 74,000 feet).

However, from one of PAF's Forward Operating Bases, radar traced the intruder and the F-16As scrambled. Sources in the PAF said that there was no need to intercept a plane flying at the altitude of 65,000 feet as the F-16 can reach an operating ceiling of 55,000 feet.

India denied the incident but Pakistan's Foreign Minister, Gohar Ayub Khan, believed that the Foxbat photographed strategic installations near the Capital, Islamabad. Interestingly, the two countries signed a 'Prevention of Air Space Violations' agreement in April 1991, which recognized that PAF and IAF aircraft operate near each other's airspace. The agreement permitted overflights and landings by military aircraft, but certainly not airborne reconnaissance.
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@Windjammer

https://defence.pk/threads/the-story-of-iaf-mig-25-over-islamabad.330422/

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/comme...-aviation-mig-25-foxbat-indian-air-force.html
 
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F 16 service ceiling was 50000 feet

How could it engage the MIG 25 flying over 70000 feet

And in 1997 you had F 16 A / B with NO BVRAAM
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://vayu-sena.tripod.com/other-1997mig25-1.html

Recce Incursion

Air Power International

By Peter Steinemann

Last May (1997), an Indian Force (IAF) Mikoyan MiG-25RB Foxbat-B reconnaissance aircraft created a furore when the pilot flew faster than Mach 2 over Pakistani territory following a reconnaissance mission into Pakistan airspace. The Foxbat broke the sound barrier while flying at an altitude of around 65,000 feet, otherwise the mission would have remained covert, at least to the general public. The Pakistan Government considered the breaking of the sound barrier as deliberate: to make the point that the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) has no aircraft in its inventory which can come close to the cruising height of the MiG-25 (up to 74,000 feet).

However, from one of PAF's Forward Operating Bases, radar traced the intruder and the F-16As scrambled. Sources in the PAF said that there was no need to intercept a plane flying at the altitude of 65,000 feet as the F-16 can reach an operating ceiling of 55,000 feet.

India denied the incident but Pakistan's Foreign Minister, Gohar Ayub Khan, believed that the Foxbat photographed strategic installations near the Capital, Islamabad. Interestingly, the two countries signed a 'Prevention of Air Space Violations' agreement in April 1991, which recognized that PAF and IAF aircraft operate near each other's airspace. The agreement permitted overflights and landings by military aircraft, but certainly not airborne reconnaissance.

@Windjammer

https://defence.pk/threads/the-story-of-iaf-mig-25-over-islamabad.330422/
Had you bothered to read the article before habitually posting just for the sake of it, you would understand the practice.
There was a reason for the Foxbat to turn tail and head home....and no the MiG-25 wouldn't dare enter deep into Pakistan since all the strategic assets are protected by high altitude SAMs...and fighter being present is enough to rattle any week end warrior from show boating.
 
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In Iraq Iran war, Iranian F14 scored kills on Mig25 flying at high altitude (70000+ft) on recon mission ......
F 16 service ceiling was 50000 feet

How could it engage the MIG 25 flying over 70000 feet

And in 1997 you had F 16 A / B with NO BVRAAM
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://vayu-sena.tripod.com/other-1997mig25-1.html

Recce Incursion

Air Power International

By Peter Steinemann

Last May (1997), an Indian Force (IAF) Mikoyan MiG-25RB Foxbat-B reconnaissance aircraft created a furore when the pilot flew faster than Mach 2 over Pakistani territory following a reconnaissance mission into Pakistan airspace. The Foxbat broke the sound barrier while flying at an altitude of around 65,000 feet, otherwise the mission would have remained covert, at least to the general public. The Pakistan Government considered the breaking of the sound barrier as deliberate: to make the point that the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) has no aircraft in its inventory which can come close to the cruising height of the MiG-25 (up to 74,000 feet).

However, from one of PAF's Forward Operating Bases, radar traced the intruder and the F-16As scrambled. Sources in the PAF said that there was no need to intercept a plane flying at the altitude of 65,000 feet as the F-16 can reach an operating ceiling of 55,000 feet.

India denied the incident but Pakistan's Foreign Minister, Gohar Ayub Khan, believed that the Foxbat photographed strategic installations near the Capital, Islamabad. Interestingly, the two countries signed a 'Prevention of Air Space Violations' agreement in April 1991, which recognized that PAF and IAF aircraft operate near each other's airspace. The agreement permitted overflights and landings by military aircraft, but certainly not airborne reconnaissance.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
@Windjammer

https://defence.pk/threads/the-story-of-iaf-mig-25-over-islamabad.330422/

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/comme...-aviation-mig-25-foxbat-indian-air-force.html
 
Last edited:
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Had you bothered to read the article before habitually posting just for the sake of it, you would understand the practice.
There was a reason for the Foxbat to turn tail and head home....and no the MiG-25 wouldn't dare enter deep into Pakistan since all the strategic assets are protected by high altitude SAMs...and fighter being present is enough to rattle any week end warrior from show boating.

Your article is just YOUR OWN made up fairy tale

There is LOT of material on the internet which proves that PAF
could do NOTHING about the MIG 25

The sonic boom by MIG 25 was specifically MAKING a point to PAF

STOP imagining things which never happened

In Iraq Iran war, Iranian F14 scored kills on Mig25 flying at high altitude (7000+ft) on recon mission .....

Did PAF have F 14

F 16 could not shoot down MIG 25 or else PAF would have done so

Which Air force ALLOWS its enemy to do a SONIC boom over its CAPITAL
 
. .
F 16 service ceiling was 50000 feet

How could it engage the MIG 25 flying over 70000 feet

And in 1997 you had F 16 A / B with NO BVRAAM
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://vayu-sena.tripod.com/other-1997mig25-1.html

Recce Incursion

Air Power International

By Peter Steinemann

Last May (1997), an Indian Force (IAF) Mikoyan MiG-25RB Foxbat-B reconnaissance aircraft created a furore when the pilot flew faster than Mach 2 over Pakistani territory following a reconnaissance mission into Pakistan airspace. The Foxbat broke the sound barrier while flying at an altitude of around 65,000 feet, otherwise the mission would have remained covert, at least to the general public. The Pakistan Government considered the breaking of the sound barrier as deliberate: to make the point that the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) has no aircraft in its inventory which can come close to the cruising height of the MiG-25 (up to 74,000 feet).

However, from one of PAF's Forward Operating Bases, radar traced the intruder and the F-16As scrambled. Sources in the PAF said that there was no need to intercept a plane flying at the altitude of 65,000 feet as the F-16 can reach an operating ceiling of 55,000 feet.

India denied the incident but Pakistan's Foreign Minister, Gohar Ayub Khan, believed that the Foxbat photographed strategic installations near the Capital, Islamabad. Interestingly, the two countries signed a 'Prevention of Air Space Violations' agreement in April 1991, which recognized that PAF and IAF aircraft operate near each other's airspace. The agreement permitted overflights and landings by military aircraft, but certainly not airborne reconnaissance.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
@Windjammer

https://defence.pk/threads/the-story-of-iaf-mig-25-over-islamabad.330422/

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/comme...-aviation-mig-25-foxbat-indian-air-force.html
Read the article, PAFs Vipers were well capable of reaching and if not, crossing 60,000 mark.

what does this fanboy drawing has to do with the article :rolleyes:
"Fanboy" drawing has a story:
It's the first aircraft PAF shot down. And guess what, IAF used it because they thought Sabres couldn't shoot it down.




Sounds familiar, no?
:azn:
 
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Read the article, PAFs Vipers were well capable of reaching and if not, crossing 60,000 mark.

Does That article have a source or is it written by WIndjammer

Secondly the MIG 25 was always out of reach of F 16 A/ B which PAF had in 1997

And PAF -- F 16 did nt have BVRAAMs in 1997 -- As we saw in Kargil 1999
 
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Your article is just YOUR OWN made up fairy tale

There is LOT of material on the internet which proves that PAF
could do NOTHING about the MIG 25

The sonic boom by MIG 25 was specifically MAKING a point to PAF

STOP imagining things which never happened



Did PAF have F 14

F 16 could not shoot down MIG 25 or else PAF would have done so

Which Air force ALLOWS its enemy to do a SONIC boom over its CAPITAL

The only fairy here is you and a butt hurt one at that. your stupid Canberra pilot thought the same before his a$$ got flamed and the Foxbat pilot was well aware of it and he didn't stick around to find out.
And no this is not my creation, but i guess you people can't digest anything other than all the BS your media feeds you.
 
. .
The only fairy here is you and a butt hurt one at that. your stupid Canberra pilot thought the same before his a$$ got flamed and the Foxbat pilot was well aware of it and he didn't stick around to find out.
And no this is not my creation, but i guess you people can't digest anything other than all the BS your media feeds you.

You can CONTINUE being happy with the Canberra shooting

But for God Sake ; There is a difference between MIG 25 and a Canberra

You cannot be so delusional

Why dont you post the source so we can know which EXPERT has written it
 
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. . .
Unrelated to the 1997 event, but in the early 90s there was a scramble that launched a No.14 Squadron Viper to intercept a MiG-25 on the eastern border. The Viper pilot had a lock on the Foxbat, with the Foxbat completely unaware that he was under him. The authorisation never came from the AHQ to shoot it down and the Foxbat headed back towards Indian airspace. Heard this from one of the Viper drivers a few years back.
 
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Does That article have a source or is it written by WIndjammer

Secondly the MIG 25 was always out of reach of F 16 A/ B which PAF had in 1997

And PAF -- F 16 did nt have BVRAAMs in 1997 -- As we saw in Kargil 1999
Let me state a fact.
F-14s, the MiG-25 killer, was pitted in aggressor exercises against Vipers. And Vipers would emerge victorious in the WVR combat.
If a Viper can track you on it's radar, or even catches a glimpse of you, your chances of survival fall heavily.
 
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