Former PJAK member: Iran provided weapons for terrorist PKK

[T-123456]

you wrong about iran it is weak in some ways but surrounded by wild people you got Afghanistan, Iraq on fire, Pakistan struggling against many intel agencies. nuclear threat Russia has nukes too man not just USA. USA is already struggling getting a ss kicking in Iraq,Afghanistan, pakistanis pi st off. china will not allow Iran to fall as it soley need that oil. trust me it wont be in turkeys favor or Azerbaijan you got too much to lose. the whole god damn regions goes on fire.
of course it politics but it people lives that have been affected and this way Iran will get majority support cos it USA.

Lets just wait and see.

 

[Azadkashmir]

Lets just wait and see.

i am saying for turk sake. n peace. trust me it wont be cake walk. erdogan is criminal. i am not fan of Iranians regime cos i believe they jus pretend islamic but power hungry.

 

[ASQ-1918]

...............

Why do you ignore his words? There was nothing as "Azari" people or language prior to 1930s in Iran, you Persians still refer to Azerbaijani Turks as plain "Turk" and their language as "Turki", as they do themselves. But you keep using that word. The name Azerbaijan was never used for present-day Republic of Azerbaijan? Then why Russians called us "Azerbaijani Tatars"? There was no such thing as "Aran province", there were Beglerbegs during Safavid era and later Khanates, these Azerbaijani Khanates actually became independent after the death of Nadir Shah. And about the name "Aran", it is just a region within broader Azerbaijan, the name is still used in Republic of Azerbaijan itself to refer to a specific region, same as Shirvan. You cannot name whole Azerbaijan by any of these names. Morover, Aran is Arabized form of "Albania" (AKA Caucasian Albania), just to let you know.

Here are old Azerbaijan proverbs about Persians, referred to as "Tat". Turkic peoples since ancient times used to call Persians and Iranians as whole as "Tat", which meant "foreigner". See how Azerbaijani Turks made a distinction between themselves and Persians/Iranians. Azerbaijan Turks refer to themselves as Turk or Tarakama in these examples. Turk was used to refer to Azerbaijani Turks who led a sedentary lifestyle, while Tarakama was used to refer to nomadic Azerbaijani Turks and actually means "Turkmen".

Tat ata mindi, tanrısını tanımadı. Tat sat on a horse, forgot his God.

Türkin gəlişi, tatın görişi - Tərəkəmənin gəlişi, tatın görişi.

Tatı döy, qonаq ol. Beat the Tat, be guest.

Tatın günü, itin günü. Tat's day, dog's day.

Qısqı güclü olanda, tat bacadan qaçar. When the pressure is strong, Tat would escape through chimney.

Çövür tatı, vur tatı. Turn the Tat, beat the Tat.

Novruz is celebrated by almost all of Turkic nations, so what? Its celebrated in Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgizistan, among Tatars, Uyghurs and so on.

Its funny how clueless people like you talk. Have you ever heard of Dede Qorqud? Just like you guys have Shahname, we have Dede Qorqud, and this alone is enough to set us apart. Dede Qorqud is collection of epic tales of medieval Oghuz tribes and the stories takes place in Azerbaijan, the language used in these texts are closest to Azerbaijani Turkish out of all Oghuz dialects and yes its a common book of all Oghuz peoples, but I would say it mostly belongs to Azerbaijan and Azerbaijani Turks because of obvious connections.

 

[ASQ-1918]

About the thread subject, there is nothing shocking or surprising. Iran's support to Pkk terrorists has been known since a very long time.

 

[Targon]

i cant take you link becuz this forum don't let me but his coin and his kateb's wrote show that
maybe soon i can put link just few comment
nadershah have low education and he could read too hard but he could !!
in my country there is more than you thinking after arabian invade to iran after mongolia invade samanian zandie afsharie safavie(in last not initiate) safarian gharan maziar and babak khoramdin sorkhjamegan hakhamaneshian ashkanian sasanian and pahlavi
indeed after arabian invade spoke persian was baned one iranian poet 'great ferdusi' wrote 30000 verse( less 1000 years ago) from persian words(indeed he gathered poems) and his poem about iranian glory and nationalism means and after that iranian riot against arabian leaders and never accept arabic leader's again
some people belive if ferdusi did n't exist iranian forgot persian language and sppke arabic like other country in middle east
one of his poem about one defeated soldier deal with holy bird and bird took his life and he can got back iranian territory ofcourse this is complicated but i sample that arash kamangir story
گر ایران نباشد تن من نباد بر این بوم و بر زنده یک

Similar stuff also happened in parts of Turkic/Turkish history but I'm repeating again it was not something common ! you're bringing several examples but history of Iran is not just about these ! you're ignoring many dynasties and historical periods, you can't except everybody to have these emotions in a period that proper thoughts of these are not yet appeared, most of the people were just after their own benefits, and as I said these kind thougts were coming from education, since education stystem was under the influence of Arabs and Persians, these were not the thoughts of ordinary common people.

Indeed Persians heavily influenced the nomadic Turks when they settled, it was normal, just as notice being settled or nomad has nothing with superiority or inferiority, if they didn't erected buildings its not because they could not, its because for their life style it was unnecessary, they had laws, they had organizations, they had literature, when they wanted they also erected buildings, such as how Uyghur Khagans builded cities.

 

[Serpentine]

Asq-1918: with the proverbs you provided in post 93,you just admitted with what kind of fascists we are dealing,people Who consider insulting other races as a cultural value are indeed fascists.
Tell us more about your proud history and culture,we are learning lessons here.

And please,don't manipuplate the facts,Tats are not Persians,they are an old group of Iranian people,mosty inhabited in northern Iran,R of Azerbaijan and Armenia.
Tat people (Iran) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tat people (Caucasus) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tati language (Iran) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Maybe some illiterate members are fooled by your lies,but there are still some members to reveal your true face,a racist who has no life except insulting other nations.

 

[ASQ-1918]

If you weren't such an smartarse, you would know that they do not refer to themsleves by that name. Also, Tats of Caucasus and Iran are two different groups, the former speak the south-western Iranian language, basically Persian language and were brought to Caucasus in small numbers during Sassanid era from southern Iran, their language confirms this, and the latter are a small group in south of Qazvin, I don't know when and how they became to be known by that name. In older times, Tat was used to designate Persians as whole by Turks. The reason why the Persian-speaking minority in Caucasus are named Tat is exactly because of that reason, as Azerbaijani Turks came in contact with them in some areas, they called them Tat and it remained as such. Just like the terms such as Tadjik and Ajam that were used by others to refer to Persians.

So these proverbs are actually about Persians. And how I'm being racist by posting historical proverbs?

Mahmud Al-Kashgari: Tatsız Türk bolmas, başsız börk bolmas. As you see, Turkic peoples called Persians as Tat since the old times.

 

[behrad]

Why do you ignore his words? There was nothing as "Azari" people or language prior to 1930s in Iran, you Persians still refer to Azerbaijani Turks as plain "Turk" and their language as "Turki", as they do themselves. But you keep using that word. The name Azerbaijan was never used for present-day Republic of Azerbaijan? Then why Russians called us "Azerbaijani Tatars"? There was no such thing as "Aran province", there were Beglerbegs during Safavid era and later Khanates, these Azerbaijani Khanates actually became independent after the death of Nadir Shah. And about the name "Aran", it is just a region within broader Azerbaijan, the name is still used in Republic of Azerbaijan itself to refer to a specific region, same as Shirvan. You cannot name whole Azerbaijan by any of these names. Morover, Aran is Arabized form of "Albania" (AKA Caucasian Albania), just to let you know.
oh my god about
Here are old Azerbaijan proverbs about Persians, referred to as "Tat". Turkic peoples since ancient times used to call Persians and Iranians as whole as "Tat", which meant "foreigner". See how Azerbaijani Turks made a distinction between themselves and Persians/Iranians. Azerbaijan Turks refer to themselves as Turk or Tarakama in these examples. Turk was used to refer to Azerbaijani Turks who led a sedentary lifestyle, while Tarakama was used to refer to nomadic Azerbaijani Turks and actually means "Turkmen".

Tat ata mindi, tanrısını tanımadı. Tat sat on a horse, forgot his God.

Türkin gəlişi, tatın görişi - Tərəkəmənin gəlişi, tatın görişi.

Tatı döy, qonаq ol. Beat the Tat, be guest.

Tatın günü, itin günü. Tat's day, dog's day.



Novruz is celebrated by almost all of Turkic nations, so what? Its celebrated in Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgizistan, among Tatars, Uyghurs and so on.

Its funny how clueless people like you talk. Have you ever heard of Dede Qorqud? Just like you guys have Shahname, we have Dede Qorqud, and this alone is enough to set us apart. Dede Qorqud is collection of epic tales of medieval Oghuz tribes and the stories takes place in Azerbaijan, the language used in these texts are closest to Azerbaijani Turkish out of all Oghuz dialects and yes its a common book of all Oghuz peoples, but I would say it mostly belongs to Azerbaijan and Azerbaijani Turks because of obvious connections.

oh my god and do u know any thing about zandie or agha mohamad khanghajar ? in they time your azarbaijan was not independent because when russian came to captured that era they fight with iranian soldier and in torkaman chay and golestan treaty separated that era of iran
and khanat means province just it
i heard about Dede Qorqud but nobody know when or where that created and shahname is many deference with that and you can not compare them long time ago i saw one article said dede qorqud belong to osmani 16th(i dont remember exactly when maybe 17th or 15th) century
about aran and that means you can go and see map in turkey meuseum however you need translator because you can not read them
about azari yes you right kasravi (man who born in tabriz) wrote one book about history of azarbaijan and want people tell him azari not turk
about nowruz is iranian celebrate means new day and his history came back to 2500 years ago in minimum and one of characteristic of our culture every where you see noruz know this fact there is some iranian culture over

 

[behrad]

Similar stuff also happened in parts of Turkic/Turkish history but I'm repeating again it was not something common ! you're bringing several examples but history of Iran is not just about these ! you're ignoring many dynasties and historical periods, you can't except everybody to have these emotions in a period that proper thoughts of these are not yet appeared, most of the people were just after their own benefits, and as I said these kind thougts were coming from education, since education stystem was under the influence of Arabs and Persians, these were not the thoughts of ordinary common people.

Indeed Persians heavily influenced the nomadic Turks when they settled, it was normal, just as notice being settled or nomad has nothing with superiority or inferiority, if they didn't erected buildings its not because they could not, its because for their life style it was unnecessary, they had laws, they had organizations, they had literature, when they wanted they also erected buildings, such as how Uyghur Khagans builded cities.

i understand what you say but i want tell you kings wanted power but what provoked people to fight and gave up his life was nationalism and this is in our blood not now for many century iranian king stood in two column religious and nationalism they started with religious and finished with nationalism
about turks tribe we do some work for them and they do for us we help together i explain how their came because i want to tell why they did not destroy our country and how they be one part of our nation
any kind of human's race can grow but they need some needs like safety water and etc this is not about they race , this is about their environment

 

[ASQ-1918]

oh my god and do u know any thing about zandie or agha mohamad khanghajar ? in they time your azarbaijan was not independent because when russian came to captured that era they fight with iranian soldier and in torkaman chay and golestan treaty separated that era of iran
and khanat means province just it
i heard about Dede Qorqud but nobody know when or where that created and shahname is many deference with that and you can not compare them long time ago i saw one article said dede qorqud belong to osmani 16th(i dont remember exactly when maybe 17th or 15th) century
about aran and that means you can go and see map in turkey meuseum however you need translator because you can not read them
about azari yes you right kasravi (man who born in tabriz) wrote one book about history of azarbaijan and want people tell him azari not turk
about nowruz is iranian celebrate means new day and his history came back to 2500 years ago in minimum and one of characteristic of our culture every where you see noruz know this fact there is some iranian culture here

What kind of English is that? I hope you at least understand whats being said.

Its pretty clear that you don't know the history of region. Following Nader Shahs death, Azerbaijani Khanates became independent, and would only be challenged by Agha Muhammed Khan Qajar in 1796, but that itself was short lived as Russians themsleves became involved aswell, some of Azerbaijani Khanates, such as Khanate of Quba requested assistance from Russia.

See the treaty of Kurekchay from 1805 between Azerbaijani Khanates and Russian Empire which made Khanates a vassal of Russian Empire, that was before treaties of Turkemenchay and Gulustan, these two treaties simple stated that Qajars would have to denounce all of their claims on Azerbaijani Khanates in Transcaucasia, not that Russians occupied them from Qajars. According to the treaty, Russia was protector of the Khanates.

I Already explained about "Aran", go and read that again. And you agree that the word "Azari" is a recent innovation.

Dede Qorqud was created in Azerbaijan and it was most certainly finished during Agh-Qoyunlu reign, as there is some connection between the story and Agh-Qoyunlu dynasty. The "Great Khan" of Oghuz tribes are Bayandur Khan, Bayandur was the tribe which Agh-Qoyunlu dynasty belonged to, some of tales also tells of "Holy" wars of Oghuz tribes against Georgians and Abkhazians, and historians thinks it probably refers to campaigns of Agh-Qoyunlu against Christians of Caucasus. Also the language used in texts most closely resembles Azerbaijani Turkish. The tales mostly takes place in Azerbaijan, and we see it by the names of locations, such as Derbent/Demirqapı, Ganja, Barda, Alinja etc...The lands Oghuz tribes live, referred to as "Oğuz Eli", The Country of Oghuz, are described as being located next to Georgia and that matches with areas populated by Azerbaijani Turks. It has absolutely no relation to Ottomans or their territorities, as Ottoman lands are separately mentioned as "Rum Eli".

Some examples...

Mention of Rum Eli, I.E lands of Ottomans:

"Mərə bəzirganlar! Allah-Təala mana bir oğul verdi. Varın Rum elinə mənim oğlum üçün yaxşı ərmağan gətirin..."

The geography of Oghuz lands in Dede Qorqud also includes Eastern Anatolia, but Eastern Anatolia was not an Ottoman territority until Chaldiran battle.

Example of Georgia and Abkhazia:

"Qarşuna baqdın, məni gördün, ağladın. Səbəb nədir, degil mana, Qara başım qurban olsun, babam sana! Denməz olursan, qalqubanı yerimdən mən turaram. Qara gözlü yigitlərimi boynıma aluram. Qan Abqaz elinə mən gedərəm, Altun xaça mən əlümi basaram.”

"Bir gün Ulaş oğlı, Tülü quşun yavrısı, Amit soyının aslanı, Bayandır xanın göygüsü, Qalın Oğuzun dövləti, qalmış yigit arxası Salur Qazan yerindən turmuşdı...Səksən yerdə badyələr qurulmışdı. İçib-üçüb Ulaş oğlı Salur Qazanın alnına şərabın itisi çıqdı. Qaba dizi üzərinə çökdi, ayıtdı: Ünim anlan bəglər, sözüm dinlən bəglər. Yata-yata yanımız ağrıdı. Yüruyəyim a bəglər. Qıyan Selcük oğlı dəli Tondaz aydır: Bəli, Qazan xan məsləhətdir. Anlar eylə digəc Atağuzlu Uruz Qoca iki dizinin üstinə çökdi. Aydır: Ağam Qazan, sası dinlü Gürcüstan ağzında oturarsan, ordun üstə kimi qorsan?”

"Ağam Qazan, sasi dinlü Gürcüstan ağzında oturarsan" - "My lord Qazan, you sit next to the borders of infidel Georgia".

"Xanlar xanı - Xan Bayındır, bir gün yerdən turmuşdı, ağ ban evin qara yerin, üzərində qurmuşdı. Alasivan, göy üzünə - ucalıbən aşınmışdı. Min bir yerdə ipək xalça, döşənmişdi, salınmışdı. İç Oğuz, Daş Oğuz, qonaqlayıb oturarkən, doqquz tümən Gürcüstanın, xəracını gətirdilər. (bir gürz, bir at, birdə qılınc.)"

These texts you see are in their original form, the way they were originally written. Its basically Azerbaijani Turkish but an earlier version of it.

 

[Targon]

No they did not, these are modern thoughts, they didn't fought for nationalism, for a degree you can say some of members of the upper classes had some kind of proto nationalism due to education but ordinary people did not have these emotions, there were several reasons for fighting, money/loot, being forced to it by lords, or protecting the house and family.

ASQ

Dede Qorkut stories are most likely took place in old Oghuz homeland, but those stories told from generations to generations and written by some changes depends on the locations and times its written.

 

[ASQ-1918]

The Dede Qorqud stories that we know as, takes places in Caucasus. The source of them could well be earlier then that, but there is no question that the book was finished in Azerbaijani lands in Azerbaijani Turkish.

 

[Targon]

The written remainings could be adapted and written in Ak Koyunlu period(I doubt it was the only adaptation and writting of it) but the origins of the stories goes back to further past, I'm remembering a serious research about that, it was saying these stories were describing the early Oghuz-Pecheneg wars.

 

[ASQ-1918]

I'm well aware of that, many of it are referring to Oghuz-Qipchaq wars aswell. Qipchaks and Pechenegs are not directly mentioned by name unlike Georgians or Abkhazians, we understand this by looking at the names of characters that are enemies of Oghuz tribes in Dede Qorqud which has distinctive Qipchaq names. However, the geographical locations and the countries bordering Oghuz lands are definetly outside of Central Asia. I was not discussing the source of it, but Dede Qorqud that we know of, lets say the surviving one, are from Azerbaijan. After all it was oral tradition in written form, and oral traditions always survived from generation to generation, it would be the same in all Oghuz lands. I'm not saying its unique to Azerbaijan, I originally mentioned that its a common value of all Oghuz peoples. I was trying to make a point to our clueless friend about the actual history and traditions of our nation.

 

[mehmeTcc]

God, I just love to be Turk(ic). So much to learn about our history.

Just go on guys, this thread could be a very informative one.