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Former Pakistani general says US seeks to ruin his country

so you are saying by creating Electricity, Hospitals, Highways, Disaster Relief during Earthquakes and Floods, sending in Heavy Machinery, Doctors, Building Schools, giving Scholarships, etc.....this is ALL being done to support our interests? Yet you guys hate us after ALL the above????

What he says is that's not where the money goes. Even if the US aid was well-intentioned, which is arguable at best, the money hardly makes to helping the nation.

How come Turkey, Indonesia, Malaysia, the UAE have no issues with the US?? they are just as muslims as you are right? Food for thought: they don't have a terrorism problem and are democratic. People love to work with them and invest into their economies that grow every year!

Few possible reasons:
  1. We have nukes
  2. We have a powerful army
  3. We are closely allied with China
  4. We're not a western-oriented culture
  5. We border an openly anti-Israeli nation (Iran) and of course Afghanistan
  6. We're not open to hosting a US military base in our country
 
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My dear child, here was my question:



Would you like me to find a dictionary? Or do you need me to explain to you what that is as well?
You're so braindead, you could trip on cordless phone.
here is my answer, PAPPU BASTA UTHAA AUR SCHOOL JAA?
 
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How come Turkey, Indonesia, Malaysia, the UAE have no issues with the US?? they are just as muslims as you are right? Food for thought: they don't have a terrorism problem and are democratic. People love to work with them and invest into their economies that grow every year!

If I were to reply to your excellent question, i would say, the countries you have mentioned did not have India and Afghanistan as their next door neighbors, lucky them.

Except Turkey, countries you have mentioned remained neutral during the cold war, and paid lots of attention to address their local issues, such as literacy rate, economics etc. Pakistan on the other hand could not keep itself from going into the US camp. Pakistan made this decision to make itself militarily stronger so she could resist India. The 1948 war of Kashmir instilled sort of insecurity in the psyche of Pakistani nation in general and ruling elite in particular.

We went into the US camp hoping (actually believing) that in an eventuality, US will rescue us. However, US never made any such commitments, hence when in 1965 the war broke between Pakistan and India, US imposed sanctions on both the countries. Pakistani rulers were aware of the actual terms and conditions but they misinformed Pakistani public, and put all the blame of their failure on the US. This was a turning point in bilateral relations between Pakistan and US, which went down the hill in coming years, and turned really sour after 1971 Dhaka fall fiasco.

Pakistani public had to know that US would have helped Pakistan only if Pakistan was under attack by a communist country, and not by India. During PM Bhutto's time, the relations remained cold, and did not restore until the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.

I personally think that Pakistan was better off by not getting involved in Afghanistan, and i have several reasons in support of my thesis. First and foremost, Afghanistan was never on friendly terms with Pakistan. Secondly, she never recognized an international border on the Durand line between the two countries, and actively supported militancy in Pakistan (the Baloch uprisings etc). However, Pakistani rulers decided to get that conflict cashed and offered their services in return of US civil and military aid.

Things would have panned out well had we had not made a seminal mistake. Instead of restricting the millions of refugees to their camps, we allowed them to settle in Pakistan. We did not put in place any surveillance system to monitor the movement and activities of the refugees. This resulted in a flood of lawlessness, arms and drug trafficking, and mushrooming of tens of thousands of madrassas throughout the country. BTW, Pakistan was not the only country to host the refugees. Iran also hosted a very large number, but unlike Pakistan, she confined the refugees to their camps, and never allowed them to roam in the country, hence Iran was spared from the wrath of these uneducated savages.

USSR disintegrated and US left Afghanistan. We make lots of noise about this but forget that the prime (or perhaps the only) objective of US was to take revenge of its defeat in Vietnam from the USSR. US had no intentions of bringing peace and prosperity in Afghanistan for it was just not on her agenda. With fall of Kabul, Afghans resorted back to what they have always been good at, killing each other. Madrasas were churning out tens of thousands of fighters, who initially fought for several warlords, and later evolved into a standalone fighting Taliban force.

To sum up things, i would say, a Soviet- occupied Afghanistan was less of danger to Pakistan than a Taliban-ruled Afghanistan. Why we have issues with the US, i don't know for sure. Perhaps we had unrealistic expectations from US, perhaps our rulers lied to us on Pakistan US relations, or perhaps we have a very skewed and unrealistic concept of Muslim ummah.
 
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first of all - where is the article?

secondly - nothing new is presented here. The retd. Lt. Gen (who has been out of the service since a lot of you were in diapers or not even born yet) basically regurgitates what he's been saying since early 2000s
 
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What he says is that's not where the money goes. Even if the US aid was well-intentioned, which is arguable at best, the money hardly makes to helping the nation.

Why is it arguable that the US aid was well intentioned for over 6 decades? There have only been two times when the US was around in the neighborhood for its reasons. The rest was given to Pakistan as an ally. Actually, as the ally for the longest time.

Plus, if the aid doesn't make it to the common person.....that's also America's fault??? Why do you put corrupted leaders in those roles to begin with? And why would you hate the US if your own countrymen don't let the aid money flow down the chain? You should still appreciate the well wisher who's the sender in this case (the US before you forget :) )

Few possible reasons:
  1. We have nukes
  2. We have a powerful army
  3. We are closely allied with China
  4. We're not a western-oriented culture
  5. We border an openly anti-Israeli nation (Iran) and of course Afghanistan
  6. We're not open to hosting a US military base in our country

None of the above are the reasons behind having issues with the world. Malaysia is very modern, yet they are openly against Israel (or as openly as they can. you can read up on Dr. Mahatir's comments about Israel).
Next: your army is powerful for Pakistan or the region. It's a professional force. There are other larger and smaller forces that have better trained men and equipment so that's not a reason. Plus the US has never been against the Army. In fact it is the other way around. The Army is pro-America, just look at your major hardware.....
Culture has nothing to do with this. Even India, UAE, Saudia, Malaysia are all conservative cultures. I am aware of how conservative Pakistan really is...parties in Karachi, Lahore and all other cities are common so baseless reason.
Next: Bordering with Iran and Afghanistan has nothing to do with it either. You can move Pakistan next to France and the problem will STILL the same.
Next: Hosting a US base isn't an issue. You guys have always worked with the US to help achieve its goal (U2 days remember?)
Here's the issue: You guys as a nation, don't want to move forward. The religious extremism, violence, lack of care for your own country and pointing fingers to America for all you could fix within your society.....is your problem. The accountability and not understanding is your issue. Pakistan is a modern country.....if you think otherwise, go on the streets of Karachi and Lahore and you'll find the answer. Religious extremism, violence and corruption should NOT have a place in a society that wants to advance. At least not to a degree it is in Pakistan. You control the extremism, violence (political and non political) and add responsibility and respect for your brand (your country i.e.), you'd root out the most important issues and the world will work with a stable Pakistan with arms wide open!

If I were to reply to your excellent question, i would say, the countries you have mentioned did not have India and Afghanistan as their next door neighbors, lucky them.

To sum up things, i would say, a Soviet- occupied Afghanistan was less of danger to Pakistan than a Taliban-ruled Afghanistan. Why we have issues with the US, i don't know for sure. Perhaps we had unrealistic expectations from US, perhaps our rulers lied to us on Pakistan US relations, or perhaps we have a very skewed and unrealistic concept of Muslim ummah.

I am very impressed by your post. SOMEONE tried to put it out without any personal, political or any other agenda. Well written. That is the major issue. You guys have always looked for others to come help that you have created unrealistic expectations. And corrupted people and leaders do nothing but lie to their people.
What do you think should happen to get Pakistan out of this mess?
 
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Counter-Errorist said: ↑
What he says is that's not where the money goes. Even if the US aid was well-intentioned, which is arguable at best, the money hardly makes to helping the nation.
Why is it arguable that the US aid was well intentioned for over 6 decades? There have only been two times when the US was around in the neighborhood for its reasons. The rest was given to Pakistan as an ally. Actually, as the ally for the longest time.
Plus, if the aid doesn't make it to the common person.....that's also America's fault??? Why do you put corrupted leaders in those roles to begin with? And why would you hate the US if your own countrymen don't let the aid money flow down the chain? You should still appreciate the well wisher who's the sender in this case (the US before you forget )
Counter-Errorist said: ↑
Few possible reasons:
We have nukes
We have a powerful army
We are closely allied with China
We're not a western-oriented culture
We border an openly anti-Israeli nation (Iran) and of course Afghanistan
We're not open to hosting a US military base in our country
None of the above are the reasons behind having issues with the world. Malaysia is very modern, yet they are openly against Israel (or as openly as they can. you can read up on Dr. Mahatir's comments about Israel).
Next: your army is powerful for Pakistan or the region. It's a professional force. There are other larger and smaller forces that have better trained men and equipment so that's not a reason. Plus the US has never been against the Army. In fact it is the other way around. The Army is pro-America, just look at your major hardware.....
Culture has nothing to do with this. Even India, UAE, Saudia, Malaysia are all conservative cultures. I am aware of how conservative Pakistan really is...parties in Karachi, Lahore and all other cities are common so baseless reason.
Next: Bordering with Iran and Afghanistan has nothing to do with it either. You can move Pakistan next to France and the problem will STILL the same.
Next: Hosting a US base isn't an issue. You guys have always worked with the US to help achieve its goal (U2 days remember?)
Here's the issue: You guys as a nation, don't want to move forward. The religious extremism, violence, lack of care for your own country and pointing fingers to America for all you could fix within your society.....is your problem. The accountability and not understanding is your issue. Pakistan is a modern country.....if you think otherwise, go on the streets of Karachi and Lahore and you'll find the answer. Religious extremism, violence and corruption should NOT have a place in a society that wants to advance. At least not to a degree it is in Pakistan. You control the extremism, violence (political and non political) and add responsibility and respect for your brand (your country i.e.), you'd root out the most important issues and the world will work with a stable Pakistan with arms wide open!
syedali73 said: ↑
If I were to reply to your excellent question, i would say, the countries you have mentioned did not have India and Afghanistan as their next door neighbors, lucky them.
To sum up things, i would say, a Soviet- occupied Afghanistan was less of danger to Pakistan than a Taliban-ruled Afghanistan. Why we have issues with the US, i don't know for sure. Perhaps we had unrealistic expectations from US, perhaps our rulers lied to us on Pakistan US relations, or perhaps we have a very skewed and unrealistic concept of Muslim ummah.
I am very impressed by your post. SOMEONE tried to put it out without any personal, political or any other agenda. Well written. That is the major issue. You guys have always looked for others to come help that you have created unrealistic expectations. And corrupted people and leaders do nothing but lie to their people.
What do you think should happen to get Pakistan out of this mess?

Please stop blabbering. It is all our fault and thank you for the selfless good you like to do for us.
 
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Please stop blabbering. It is all our fault and thank you for the selfless good you like to do for us.

I don't think the American tax payers who send aid to Pakistan want to see Pakistan bending over backwards to thank us. But we also don't want to see our FLAGS and our President's impression getting burnt and torn into pieces either. Could you guys adapt a nicer way to put your point across vs. just sheer violence? What do you think an American person thinks when they see protests in Pakistan burning our country's flags? Everything can be communicated with a positive message and it is taken as such. So much American aid should result in less blame on America and more appreciation and at times of concerns, mutual respect and discussion. Not just blabbing negative crap!
 
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What do you think should happen to get Pakistan out of this mess?
Thank you very much for liking my post. At present there are number of problems Pakistan is facing and I don't think all of these problems can be taken out simultaneously. We need to set our priorities straight, and first address those problems which need immediate attention. Most of our problems stem from almost dying Pakistani economy. In my opinion, the first problem that should be address is to somehow put the economy back on track. However, economy cant be put on track unless Pakistan becomes are peaceful country and the investors (both foreign and local) find it safe and attractive to invest. So we have to work hard on bringing peace to our country. Pakistan will not achieve peace until we take out TTP (alias JI/JUI) scum, and this cant be achieved without settling down the FATA issue. It is not only TTP (alias JI/JUI), most of the ruthless criminals find refuge in FATA because it is out of the reach of Pakistani judicial system.

Pakistan can no longer afford to leave FATA on its own, and we have to fully implement Pakistani constitution and judicial system in FATA. We need to declare FATA as a province, this way, they will have their Governor, Chief Ministers, a providential assembly and representation of 26 seats in the national assembly. This will provide political and constitutional rights to the people of FATA, something they have been deprived of for past 65 years. Once FATA is declared a province, the major political parties will run for it, and a political process will start, bringing FATA into mainstream Pakistani political system. It is not that currently FATA has no representation in national assembly or senate, they have 12 members in both the houses, however, these houses have no say in the matters of FATA. This will not solve all the problem in FATA in overnight, but will have an impact in long term. Inhabitants of FATA are living in a confused state of mind, and find their loyalties divided between Afghanistan and Pakistan. We have to win their loyalty, and this can only be achieved by making them the part of the mainstream administrative and political system of Pakistan.

Up until now, FATA has been run through FCR (Frontier Crimes Regulations) system, which suited select few (Khans or Maliks) but did practically nothing to improve the overall quality of life of the people of FATA. Collection of utility bills(for electricity, telephone etc) and revenue has also been lowest from FATA, and somehow the FATA inhabitants thought that these things come for free. This attitude has to be changed, and once FATA is declared a province, it will get lot more rights over its resources, and management of those resources. This surely will have a positive impact on FATA, and Pakistan. Peace in Pakistan is integral with the peace in FATA, sooner we learn it, better for us.
 
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Thank you very much for liking my post. At present there are number of problems Pakistan is facing and I don't think all of these problems can be taken out simultaneously. We need to set our priorities straight, and first address those problems which need immediate attention. Most of our problems stem from almost dying Pakistani economy. In my opinion, the first problem that should be address is to somehow put the economy back on track. However, economy cant be put on track unless Pakistan becomes are peaceful country and the investors (both foreign and local) find it safe and attractive to invest. So we have to work hard on bringing peace to our country. Pakistan will not achieve peace until we take out TTP (alias JI/JUI) scum, and this cant be achieved without settling down the FATA issue. It is not only TTP (alias JI/JUI), most of the ruthless criminals find refuge in FATA because it is out of the reach of Pakistani judicial system.
Pakistan can no longer afford to leave FATA on its own, and we have to fully implement Pakistani constitution and judicial system in FATA. We need to declare FATA as a province, this way, they will have their Governor, Chief Ministers, a providential assembly and representation of 26 seats in the national assembly. This will provide political and constitutional rights to the people of FATA, something they have been deprived of for past 65 years. Once FATA is declared a province, the major political parties will run for it, and a political process will start, bringing FATA into mainstream Pakistani political system. It is not that currently FATA has no representation in national assembly or senate, they have 12 members in both the houses, however, these houses have no say in the matters of FATA. This will not solve all the problem in FATA in overnight, but will have an impact in long term. Inhabitants of FATA are living in a confused state of mind, and find their loyalties divided between Afghanistan and Pakistan. We have to win their loyalty, and this can only be achieved by making them the part of the mainstream administrative and political system of Pakistan.
Up until now, FATA has been run through FCR (Frontier Crimes Regulations) system, which suited select few (Khans or Maliks) but did practically nothing to improve the overall quality of life of the people of FATA. Collection of utility bills(for electricity, telephone etc) and revenue has also been lowest from FATA, and somehow the FATA inhabitants thought that these things come for free. This attitude has to be changed, and once FATA is declared a province, it will get lot more rights over its resources, and management of those resources. This surely will have a positive impact on FATA, and Pakistan. Peace in Pakistan is integral with the peace in FATA, sooner we learn it, better for us.


I cannot agree with you more. FATA should have been made a part of KPK(Frontier) province right from the birth of Pakistan. Now it should be either a part of KPK or a separate province with federal laws applied like in other provinces.
 
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I cannot agree with you more. FATA should have been made a part of KPK(Frontier) province right from the birth of Pakistan. Now it should be either a part of KPK or a separate province with federal laws applied like in other provinces.

I am glad you agree. These were the same points I was getting to as well. Peace, stability, economy, nationalism and hard work is what Pakistan needs!
 
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