For my Indian friends: Taking Off In A MiG-29K From A Carrier At Night Is A Fiery Thrill

[Abingdonboy]

Which signs? Us rejecting US ATGMs because of the lack of ToT agreements with them? The M777 still not procured because of offset problems with the US? Did you even saw an improvement in the political relations with the US government during or after the visit of the PM with the public rejections of support in the fight agains IS or not joining US, Japan and Australia in a defence alliance?
So what exactly makes you belive they will provide us even steam catapults?

I don't think it is fair to say that a few deals can indicate the larger picture vis a vis Indo-US defence ties, nor do I think that India's reluctance to join a "alliance" against IS has impacted Indo-US ties in anyway. The reception that the US gave to the PM shows that, both of their statements reflected a desire to improve relations but also that it was a complex affair.

There have been serious reports this year that General Dynamics is briefing the IN on their EMALS and the IN looking at a CATOBAR design.

 

[Koovie]

Waiting for F-35 to fly off IAC-II...

Well, have fun waiting for it to happen

 

[sancho]

I don't think it is fair to say that a few deals can indicate the larger picture vis a vis Indo-US defence ties, nor do I think that India's reluctance to join a "alliance" against IS has impacted Indo-US ties in anyway. The reception that the US gave to the PM shows that, both of their statements reflected a desire to improve relations but also that it was a complex affair.

That's why I didn't fixed it at defence deals only, but also on the defence strategy, where the US want us to be more on their line, be it against IS or China and we refused to both. So the current situation is not different from Jan 2014 or last year, because our aims in defence are different to the once of the US and our demands on ToT/offsets are different to what the US is ready to provide and unless there is a credible improvement in the relation of the governments, there is no reason to belive that the US will make such crucial changes in exporting that technology.

There have been serious reports this year that General Dynamics is briefing the IN on their EMALS and the IN looking at a CATOBAR design.

That doesn't mean anything, since that are privat companies that are offering potential export customers their product. We had Boeing offering Growler lite, or Raytheon weapons for Rafale, LM briefing IN about F35 and so on, but all of that before there was a US government approval about the sale to India. The industry can advertise and offer what they want, just as IN can show interests in arms and techs as they want, but the key changes have to come from the US government.

 

[Archie]

The numbers of Mig 29k will again increase due to the future induction of INS Vikrant if LCA cant mature then in INS Vishal also.

Vishal wont carry Mig29Ks, since it will be a Catobar carrier.
We will likely see either Rafale M or F35Cs

I still have doubts as to whether we will order more Mig29K/Kubs. We could at most see a 4th Mig29k Sqd being ordered should LCA fall dramatically short of Naval expectations, however Indian Navy is committed to induct 46 LCA N, whether they use them onboard their carriers or as shore based aircrafts

Indian Navy currently operates 30 Mig29K/Kubs, with the remaining 15 being delivered by end of 2015. Russia will get its last Mig29K in 2016, unless their are more orders, Mig29 production will close by end of 2016. Since MIG currently have outstanding orders for just 60 Mig29 Aircraft .

 

[SrNair]

That's why I didn't fixed it at defence deals only, but also on the defence strategy, where the US want us to be more on their line, be it against IS or China and we refused to both. So the current situation is not different from Jan 2014 or last year, because our aims in defence are different to the once of the US and our demands on ToT/offsets are different to what the US is ready to provide and unless there is a credible improvement in the relation of the governments, there is no reason to belive that the US will make such crucial changes in exporting that technology.


That doesn't mean anything, since that are privat companies that are offering potential export customers their product. We had Boeing offering Growler lite, or Raytheon weapons for Rafale, LM briefing IN about F35 and so on, but all of that before there was a US government approval about the sale to India. The industry can advertise and offer what they want, just as IN can show interests in arms and techs as they want, but the key changes have to come from the US government.

So they need India for fighting their own war like EU nations did for them.We cant allow that .But this attitude may affect the supply of spares of aircrafts that we bought from them
perhaps in future.

 

[sancho]

So they need India for fighting their own war like EU nations did for them.We cant allow that .But this attitude may affect the supply of spares of aircrafts that we bought from them
perhaps in future.

It's more like getting allies for a common goal, in the cold war the Soviets were the enemy and the NATO / European partners the allies, but against China the US is looking for more Asian / Eastern partners rather than the Europeans. That's where Japan, S. Korea, Australia and India would play a more important role, because of the defence capability in the region.

 

[SrNair]

It's more like getting allies for a common goal, in the cold war the Soviets were the enemy and the NATO / European partners the allies, but against China the US is looking for more Asian / Eastern partners rather than the Europeans. That's where Japan, S. Korea, Australia and India would play a more important role, because of the defence capability in the region.

And they know courting India in their camp would be a game change for them.Since India is much stronger than other nations in that list.

 

[surya kiran]

That's why I didn't fixed it at defence deals only, but also on the defence strategy, where the US want us to be more on their line, be it against IS or China and we refused to both. So the current situation is not different from Jan 2014 or last year, because our aims in defence are different to the once of the US and our demands on ToT/offsets are different to what the US is ready to provide and unless there is a credible improvement in the relation of the governments, there is no reason to belive that the US will make such crucial changes in exporting that technology.


That doesn't mean anything, since that are privat companies that are offering potential export customers their product. We had Boeing offering Growler lite, or Raytheon weapons for Rafale, LM briefing IN about F35 and so on, but all of that before there was a US government approval about the sale to India. The industry can advertise and offer what they want, just as IN can show interests in arms and techs as they want, but the key changes have to come from the US government.

Expecting any change in US policy is like expecting rain in the Thar desert. May occur, too scarce and of not much importance. From a strategic perspective US wants to check China and form an alliance. The word, alliance, is not part of Indian foreign policy vocabulary. Our best bet, currently are Russia, France and Israel. India and China share a border. Our objective is to deter China through strength and not alliances. Especially not the Americans.

I would go one step further and offer China a co-development project. Link the western coast of India to the Eastern coast and further into China. Make this India China Highway project, which links Nepal too. Checkmate.

 

[sancho]

And they know courting India in their camp would be a game change for them.Since India is much stronger than other nations in that list.

Of course, from a strategic point of view it would be a huge win for the US to get Indian as an ally because of our military and the strategic location in the IOR. Even if they want to weaken the BRICS, India is the most promissing option as a democratic country, which doesn't pose a threat to the US or NATO. Not to mention that they want a pice of the large economic potential India offers, so there are plenty of reason for them to get us on their side, but India is simply not the UK, Canada, or similar partner countries, that are dependent on the US in political or defence related sense. India is independent, has plenty of options and is politically strong even to oppose the US. So it's not that easy as they thought it would be even with MMS and the UPA government and now it will be interesting to see what happens with the relations under Modi and NDA, although after the recent midterm elections in the US, they might have more problems at home to deal with.

 

[Derolo]

Vikramaditya and Vikrant between themselves can carry 40-48 Mig29K assuming other ships in the strike group will carry the ASW helis, Utility helis and the landing guidance helis of course all 3 roles can be conducted by 2 types as there is no specific type for landing guidance.

I think we should order 2 sqn (40-42) of Rafales so we can operate the various naval air bases and making provision for CATOBAR Vishal.

A 100 4.5+ gen aircraft will make naval aviation the undisputed king in IOR backed by IAF in Arabian Sea and BoB

 

[Mike_Brando]

Quadruplex like the LCA.

Well Abby don't you think that the I.N. should go ahead and order an additional 45 of these beauties for the new Andaman and Nicobar Naval Command?If a couple of squadrons of them are stationed in the A&N islands then it will definitely help us in the long run if we ever intend to block the Malacca strait in future.

 

[jha]

Well, have fun waiting for it to happen

One thing is for sure.. If IAC-II is getting EMALs, its getting F-35... But then we will have to see what kind of ship are they planning to make.

 

[jha]

Well Abby don't you think that the I.N. should go ahead and order an additional 45 of these beauties for the new Andaman and Nicobar Naval Command?If a couple of squadrons of them are stationed in the A&N islands then it will definitely help us in the long run if we ever intend to block the Malacca strait in future.

SU-30 can also do the Job from A&N imo...

 

[Abingdonboy]

Well Abby don't you think that the I.N. should go ahead and order an additional 45 of these beauties for the new Andaman and Nicobar Naval Command?If a couple of squadrons of them are stationed in the A&N islands then it will definitely help us in the long run if we ever intend to block the Malacca strait in future.

I don't think 45 (around 2 SQDs worth) MiG-29K/KUBs being procured purely for shore-based roles at A&N islands is necessary nor the best use of resources. Yes the IN/IAF/IA need to shore up their presence in the A&N islands looking to the future but 45 fighters is just too much especially considering that the primary purpose of the IN's fighters is not shore based defence at all but carrier aviation.

If you wanted 2 SQDs of fighters in the A&N islands then you would give that role to the IAF but, again, there is simply no need. The IAF and IN are both expanding the aviation facilities on the islands considerably that will allow them to operate any a/c India has- C17s, C-130Js, P-8Is, UAVs, MKIs, MiG-29K/KUBs etc etc. If the need an appropriate amount of MKIs can be flying over the A&N islands within hours.

I think there is a need to look at permanently basing (or rotating through) assets like the P-8I and Heron UAV. And perhaps in the future the A&N islands could play host to some IAF LCAs as point-defence interceptors.

 

[Mike_Brando]

SU-30 can also do the Job from A&N imo...

But we have only got enough Su-30 to counter both China and Pakistan and hence in case of a future war it will definitely put stress on the IAF if it has to deploy addtional Su-30s to the A&N Naval command.Plus the Mig-29Ks can also impose a sea blockade against Pakistan from the land based based in Gujarat and Maharashtra.If the I.N. operates 90 of these machines then it can effectively maintain the fleet air defense on its own and at the same time impose a naval blockade against Pak and China without getting the IAF involved in this matter.Plus a senior retd. Naval officer told me that the I.N.Aviation is seriously thinking on ordering an additional 45 Mig-29Ks to strengthen the Fleet Air-Defense capability.