For my Indian friends: Taking Off In A MiG-29K From A Carrier At Night Is A Fiery Thrill

[IndoUS]

We can rule out a naval AMCA.So chances would be either F35 or naval FGFA.
Some where I read IN may try for 5CBG s in future.Any Confirmation in that?
Does they aim for another 2ACC?

From what I remember there were plans for 3, one for eastern command and one for western while the third one is a reserve. Not sure about 5, but considering the expansion plans I would say they might be thing that by the time 4th one comes out Viky would be almost be near its decommissioning time.

 

[sancho]

@sancho .your opinion please. Is F 35 is the only option in IAC 2?

First we need to see what kind of take off system we can get => that will decide what kind of carrier design we can have => that will decide what kind of fighters we can consider as options.

STOBAR => N-LCA, Mig 29K, Rafale, naval Su 30, naval FGFA
CATOBAR => Rafale, F18SH, F35C

AMCA is still just in concept stage and if we know now if we get catapults, we can design and develop it for that requirements, or for the use from STOBAR carriers.

 

[SrNair]

Nah.. US wont allow us to fly N-FGFA off its EMALs.. Only way they will give their prized tech. i.e. EMALs if they are sure that No Russian will ever visit the Carrier. In any case, supporting air wing will come from US only, so it makes sense to buy in one big package deal.. What do you think..?

I dont think that is a nice idea.F 35 and EMALS okay .But
E-2D ,V22 I dont think so.It will shoot up the cost.Perhaps mindboggling if the propulsion is Nuclear reactor.

 

[jha]

I dont think that is a nice idea.F 35 and EMALS okay .But
E-2D ,V22 I dont think so.It will shoot up the cost.Perhaps mindboggling if the propulsion is Nuclear reactor.

Yes... But I dont think there is any other alternative to E-2D... V-22 is also a unique system..

 

[Abingdonboy]

Some where I read IN may try for 5CBG s in future.Any Confirmation in that?

This is a long term goal and IIRC the IN is interested in 5-6 CBGs- 3 each for both coasts. If the IAC-2/Vishal is nuclear powered the IN is likely to make this their standard design just how the USN does with their Supercarriers (as opposed to the situation that will be around in 2025 with all of the IN's being different designs) and thus begin pumping out Vishal-class ACCs of which the IN would likely need 4 more of by 2040 (3 more to get to 6 ACCs and then a 4th to replace the Viky that will be very dated by then). So 1 Vishal-class carrier every 4-5 years which should be more than doable by the end of the next decade.

 

[SrNair]

First we need to see what kind of take of system we can get => that will decide what kind of carrier design we can have => that will decide what kind of fighters we can consider as options.

STOBAR => N-LCA, Mig 29K, Rafale, naval Su 30, naval FGFA
CATOBAR => Rafale, F18SH, F35C

AMCA is still just in concept stage and if we know now if we get catapults, we can design and develop it for that requirements, or for the use from STOBAR carriers.

But there was a report that IN is aim for CATOBAR in IAC2.
They are also evaluating EMALs and also nuclear propulsion.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Nah.. US wont allow us to fly N-FGFA off its EMALs.. Only way they will give their prized tech. i.e. EMALs if they are sure that No Russian will ever visit the Carrier. In any case, supporting air wing will come from US only, so it makes sense to buy in one big package deal.. What do you think..?

i don't know how much that really comes into it, the bigger point is that the N-FGFA is almost certain to be unable to use catapults/EMALS so it's not even in contention.

 

[sancho]

But there was a report that IN is aim for CATOBAR in IAC2.
They are also evaluating EMALs and also nuclear propulsion.

They aimed on CATOBAR for IAC1 too, but as long as the US reject that tech for us, it doesn't matter what the aim is. That's why IN sent out RFIs to all vendors that could provide carrier fighters, no matter if they are meant for STOBAR or CATOBAR carriers.

 

[Abingdonboy]

I dont think that is a nice idea.F 35 and EMALS okay .But
E-2D ,V22 I dont think so.It will shoot up the cost.Perhaps mindboggling if the propulsion is Nuclear reactor.

The E-2D is a certainty mate (if the IN goes for a CATOBAR configuration)- it is by FAR the most advanced carrier-borne AEW system on the planet and the IN has shown a great deal of interest in it (and India is also one of the few nations that the USG has cleared the E-2D to be exported to).

I am doubtful about the V-22, with a fixed-wing AEW, what role will the V-22 play on the IN's ACCs? I do think the V-22s are likely to see service with the IN though in the long term- they are very interested in building up their amphibious assault/expeditionary capabilities.

 

[Abingdonboy]

They aimed on CATOBAR for IAC1 too, but as long as the US reject that tech for us, it doesn't matter what the aim is. That's why IN sent out RFIs to all vendors that could provide carrier fighters, no matter if they are meant for STOBAR or CATOBAR carriers.

Sir, all the signs are pointing to CATOBAR for the IAC-2, it is just a question of whether it will be nuclear powered now- I had been very skeptical but the latest reports seem to indicate the IN is aggressively pursuing this possibility.

I wasn't aware the IN had shown any interest in making the IAC-1 CATOBAR configured though.

 

[SrNair]

This is a long term goal and IIRC the IN is interested in 5-6 CBGs- 3 each for both coasts. If the IAC-2/Vishal is nuclear powered the IN is likely to make this their standard design just how the USN does with their Supercarriers (as opposed to the situation that will be around in 2025 with all of the IN's being different designs) and thus begin pumping out Vishal-class ACCs of which the IN would likely need 4 more of by 2040 (3 more to get to 6 ACCs and then a 4th to replace the Viky that will be very dated by then). So 1 Vishal-class carrier every 4-5 years which should be more than doable by the end of the next decade.

This is what I am talking about.But 5-6 CBG means Persian Gulf to Malacca Strait would at the hand of IN .But I am optimistic for 2050.Because we need such a high budget and so GDP.IN would opt for indigenous than foreign.
6CBG means around 200 fighters .We should kick start AMCA and its naval version.

 

[Abingdonboy]

This is what I am talking about.But 5-6 CBG means Persian Gulf to Malacca Strait would at the hand of IN .But I am optimistic for 2050.Because we need such a high budget and so GDP.IN would opt for indigenous than foreign.
6CBG means around 200 fighters .We should kick start AMCA and its naval version.

The Indian defence budget in 2040 will be in excess of $300BN and in 2050 in excess of $500BN (if India doesn't start spending more than 2-2.5% of GDP on defence, it could be much more of course) so the finances should be there to support 5-6 CBGs.

 

[SrNair]

They aimed on CATOBAR for IAC1 too, but as long as the US reject that tech for us, it doesn't matter what the aim is. That's why IN sent out RFIs to all vendors that could provide carrier fighters, no matter if they are meant for STOBAR or CATOBAR carriers.

I dont heard about IN pursuit for CATOBAR in IAC 2.INSVishal would be a 65000-70000 ton ACC.So for maximise its utilisation they may try for CATOBAR .Does they have capability to design our own CATOBAR ?I mean Naval Design Bureau

 

[Didact]

Sir, all the signs are pointing to CATOBAR for the IAC-2, it is just a question of whether it will be nuclear powered now- I had been very skeptical but the latest reports seem to indicate the IN is aggressively pursuing this possibility.

I wasn't aware the IN had shown any interest in making the IAC-1 CATOBAR configured though.

Too much of speculation about the INS Vishal. There were reports that the final design was to be drafted by Feb, 2014 itself. If that had happened, the understanding was that it would be most definitely a conventional carrier close to the QE class in tonnage.

But it didn't happen, and well, the carrier pretty has pretty much dropped out of the news since then. This lends weight to speculations of design changes being carried out, raising possibilities for nuclear propulsion and greater tonnage.

It could very well be a question of larger carrier holding up the final design though, especially since the Rafale design (canard) limits the number of aircraft that can be placed on board a carrier, meaning a greater deck area will be required.

 

[SrNair]

The E-2D is a certainty mate (if the IN goes for a CATOBAR configuration)- it is by FAR the most advanced carrier-borne AEW system on the planet and the IN has shown a great deal of interest in it (and India is also one of the few nations that the USG has cleared the E-2D to be exported to).

I am doubtful about the V-22, with a fixed-wing AEW, what role will the V-22 play on the IN's ACCs? I do think the V-22s are likely to see service with the IN though in the long term- they are very interested in building up their amphibious assault/expeditionary capabilities.

What about our own version of E-2D?.
Now a days GoI gives preference to JV or indigenous version.We cant reject a possibility of JV with Russia in that direction.