Footage of Palestinian boys being shot is genuine, says Israeli rights group

[Falcon29]

What are u talking about? There were swarms of journalists. U can see 3 photographers rushing to film one fainted guy. There were more journalists than protestors.

Read my post again.

Let's just say we just play along and accept every narrative of innocent Israel. What do you suggest happened?

 

[500]

Read my post again.

Let's just say we just play along and accept every narrative of innocent Israel. What do you suggest happened?

I am not a foreteller. I can only say that Palestinian version has more holes than swiss cheese.

1) They claimed when first guy was shot there were 4 shots. CNN footage you can hear there was only 1 shot.
2) They claim he was shot in chest, but footage shows no wounds there.

3) Again CNN footage shows soldiers fired a rubber bullet.
4) Bullet they say stuck in his back (M193 ball) is not smashed at all, thats impossible.

5) M193 ball is well known for causing huge wounds which again we cant see.

 

[Falcon29]

I am not a foreteller. I can only say that Palestinian version has more holes than swiss cheese.

As always.

That has nothing to do with looking at incidents reasonably.

1) They claimed when first guy was shot there were 4 shots. CNN footage you can hear there was only 1 shot.

They(the journalists, witnesses) claimed to hear 4 live ammo shots in total.

2) They claim he was shot in chest, but footage shows no wounds there.

This youth was shot in the back, the picture I posted was his bloody backpack. Nobody claimed he was shot in the chest, that was the other youth.

3) Again CNN footage shows soldiers fired a rubber bullet.

CNN footage may have not captured the live fire.

4) Bullet they say stuck in his back (M193 ball) is not smashed at all, thats impossible.

5) M193 ball is well known for causing huge wounds which again we cant see.

Who says this and where? Could you post a link? Bullets can smash up upon impact.

 

[500]

They(the journalists, witnesses) claimed to hear 4 live ammo shots in total.

But camera was running during the event.

This youth was shot in the back, the picture I posted was his bloody backpack. Nobody claimed he was shot in the chest, that was the other youth.

This is Nadeem Nawara, as the say. He was shot in his chest with M193 bullet:

M193 leaves huge wounds:

very graphic
Zombie Squad • View topic - Damage from 55gr M193 ammunition [very graphic]

CNN footage may have not captured the live fire.

CNN camera was running precisely during the event and shows one shot.

Who says this and where? Could you post a link? Bullets can smash up upon impact.

3:21 father shows M193 bullet and says it was found in bag. But M193 bullet has no iron core, it smashes super easily. No chance that after penetrating body and stucking in bag it would look so intact.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Myths About the NATO 5.56 CartridgeFuture Military Weapon Technology - Future Firepower

Not exactly the same round perhaps but:


“Combat operations the past few months have again highlighted terminal performance deficiencies with 5.56x45mm 62 gr. M855 FMJ. These problems have primarily been manifested as inadequate incapacitation of enemy forces despite their being hit multiple times by M855 bullets. These failures appear to be associated with the bullets exiting the body of the enemy soldier without yawing or fragmenting. This failure to yaw and fragment can be caused by reduced impact velocities as when fired from short barrel weapons or when the range increases. It can also occur when the bullets pass through only minimal tissue, such as a limb or the chest of a thin, malnourished individual, as the bullet may exit the body before it has a chance to yaw and fragment. In addition, bullets of the SS109/M855 type are manufactured by many countries in numerous production plants. Although all SS109/M855 types must be 62 gr. FMJ bullets constructed with a steel penetrator in the nose, the composition, thickness, and relative weights of the jackets, penetrators, and cores are quite variable, as are the types and position of the cannelures. Because of the significant differences in construction between bullets within the SS109/M855 category, terminal performance is quite variable—with differences noted in yaw, fragmentation, and penetration depths. Luke Haag’s papers in the AFTE Journal (33(1):11-28, Winter 2001) describe this problem.”

 

[Falcon29]

But camera was running during the event.

Nope, there were photos being taken earlier.

This is Nadeem Nawara, as the say. He was shot in his chest with M193 bullet:

He was shot in the back.

3:21 father shows M193 bullet and says it was found in bag. But M193 bullet has no iron core, it smashes super easily. No chance that after penetrating body and stucking in bag it would look so intact.

You're the only one claiming it was a 'M193' bullet. Just a second ago you told us no way could the bullet smash up. Now you've changed the narrative. Nobody knows exactly what weapon or ammunition was used yet, they could be blank rounds.

We have medical records though. You're trying to throw all kinds of different narratives around to confuse people. It's hilarious, yet the IDF has not denied they kill them. They won't tell us how since they're investigating theirselves. The US has also asked of Israel to investigate this.

As I've said before, at first we had no video and Israel told us they were killed in violent clashes. Until the video came out three days later, now they're trying to go all over the place and deflect.

This isn't the first time Israel has killed Palestinians in cold blood.

 

[500]

Nope, there were photos being taken earlier.

This is a photo after Nadeem was "shot in his chest".

He was shot in the back.

According to claim Nadeem was shot in chest, then bullet went out his back and stuck in his bag. If you say that Nadeem was shot in back that means you agree that Palestinian narrative is wrong and he was not shot by Israelis.

You're the only one claiming it was a 'M193' bullet.

Bullet that father shows is clearly M193.

Just a second ago you told us no way could the bullet smash up.

Read carefully. I said that bullet which father shows is not smashed. Then I said that thats absolutely impossible, i.e. bullet should be smashed.

This bullet could not penetrate body and stuck in bag.

 

[Falcon29]

This is a photo after Nadeem was "shot in his chest".

And?

Bullet that father shows is clearly M193.

No, bullets are .22 caliber rounds, border police don't use NATO rounds against demonstrations.

Read carefully. I said that bullet which father shows is not smashed. Then I said that thats absolutely impossible, i.e. bullet should be smashed.

Not sure what you're trying to say here, bullets can smash and don't always smash up. I use to regularly pick up bullets in Gaza which stayed intact.

As for the CNN footage, there's actually no red marking you're speaking. The troops have live ammunition and they can use it. You can see in the back one soldier pulling the others gun away right after the first victim was shot.

This bullet could not penetrate body and stuck in bag.

What bullet?

 

[500]

And?

According to Palestinian claim he was hit with M193 bullet in chest, but pics dont show it.

No, bullets are .22 caliber rounds, border police don't use NATO rounds against demonstrations.

Father shows M193 bullet. There is no any 0.22 guns in hands of border police.

Not sure what you're trying to say here, bullets can smash and don't always smash up.

When bullets penetrate body and stuck in something they always smash.

I use to regularly pick up bullets in Gaza which stayed intact.

These were bullets fired in air most probably.

As for the CNN footage, there's actually no red marking you're speaking. The troops have live ammunition and they can use it. You can see in the back one soldier pulling the others gun away right after the first victim was shot.

CNN footage shows that soldiers had rubber bullet attachments on their guns. You cant fire live ammo when it is attached.



What bullet?[/quote]

 

[Falcon29]

According to Palestinian claim he was hit with M193 bullet in chest, but pics dont show it.

I'm not aware of any Palestinian sources which give specifications of the exact bullet. Not sure why we're talking about a bullet either.

When bullets penetrate body and stuck in something they always smash.

It looks smashed up to me, then again I may be on drugs.

CNN footage shows that soldiers had rubber bullet attachments on their guns. You cant fire live ammo when it is attached.

I actually don't notice any attachments on most of the rifles.

 

[notgoodenough]

Unfortunately Palestinians lost credibility once they sold their souls to qatari depots for blood money and syrian lands.

I cant believe anything they say now.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Here is a close up picture of an M4 with attachment and M4 without attachment.

By comparing the length of the handle to the length of the barrel, you can see that the length of the barrel
is a little bit longer, without the attachment, and much longer with the attachment.

I can hear two shots, in the CNN video, one at 1:53 and one at 2:03. (two more at ~2:15)
The sound of both shots when you play the videos side by side sound the same (at least to me)
so I assume they are fired from the same place.

Would be interesting to know, if you could tell by the sound of the shot,
if a rubber bullet, or a real bullet was fired.

By correlating the two videos, you can see that a guy in a green striped shirt
arrives by the crowd 21 seconds after the first Palestinian is hit.
This occurs at 2:14 in the CNN video, which is 21 seconds after 1:53.

The guy pointing his gun (rightmost guy in the picture) has the attachment and at 1:53 you can see
recoil and gun smoke from this gun. I think, but am not sure that he fires at 2:03 as well.

I think we can safely say that of the two shots, the 1:53 shot is the only one in question.

So this leaves very few options.
1. The rubber bullet attachment is fake/broken, and allows firing a real round.
2. The first guy is hit is with a rubber bullet and the bullet "found" is placed there later..

Can't think of any other possibilities.

Is it possible to fire TWO rubber bullets without reloading?
Have no clue how they are loaded, (always assumed they were muzzle loaded) .

 

[ShahidT]

we are with you Palestinian brothers and sisters. we feel your pain, but all occupations end. we pray that day arrives with haste.