Footage of Palestinian boys being shot is genuine, says Israeli rights group

[Falcon29]

I cant see any blood. The "small" M16 bullet actually starts to rotate in body and causes much bigger injuries than big bullets.

It's hard to see blood from a grainy photo like that, although the results are already examined. The claim was that 'border' police had shot the victims. Your defense minister said they felt threatened and acted 'appropriately'. If the IDF is denying they were involved in this show me a clear statement.

You don't need to externally bleed and if there's blood on the clothes it won't be noticeable on security footage.

There is no any IDF footage. CNN footage clearly shows that soldiers who fired used rubber bullets. You can't fire live bullets when this device is installed on the rifle (in IDF its called "Tampon").

Who said there's no IDF footage? CNNs footage if you look at 1:59 one of the soldiers appears to recognize something's wrong and grabs the rifle from the other guy.

 

[500]

You don't need to externally bleed and if there's blood on the clothes it won't be noticeable on security footage.

Photos I posted dont show blood either.

Who said there's no IDF footage?

Do u see any Israelis filming there? IDF films only in very rare occasions.

CNNs footage if you look at 1:59 one of the soldiers appears to recognize something's wrong and grabs the rifle from the other guy.

The rubber bullet can be fired only once, you need to reload it. Once again: CNN footage clearly shows that there was rubber bullet adapter on the rifle when soldier fired. There is absolutely no any question about it.

 

[Falcon29]

Photos I posted dont show blood either.

I already have you a photo, and have stated you don't need blood. This isn't a movie. Here's what a gun shot wound looks like:

He was already carried before there could be any apparent blood at the scene. Not sure why you keep insisting on that.

Do u see any Israelis filming there? IDF films only in very rare occasions.

If they're claiming something else happened(which they haven't yet, they've said that the border police and troops were justified) then they could release any footage they have.

The rubber bullet can be fired only once, you need to reload it. Once again: CNN footage clearly shows that there was rubber bullet adapter on the rifle when soldier fired. There is absolutely no any question about it.

Fair enough, the video footage provide by CNN can't indicate if live fire was used. That doesn't rule it out since there were three other locations of border police and IDF members. Such as the one 150m away at a parking lot. International journalists who witnessed it said there were isolated live shots. So either everybody is lying and Israel is innocent or Israeli is guilty.

What are you trying to suggest?

It seems that in the video multiple rounds can be seen fired successively. Red markings can be on magazines.

 

[500]

I already have you a photo, and have stated you don't need blood. This isn't a movie. Here's what a gun shot wound looks like:

Its pistol bullet.

If they're claiming something else happened(which they haven't yet, they've said that the border police and troops were justified) then they could release any footage they have.

If u claim there was live fire from Israeli sides u should bring proves.

Fair enough, the video footage provide by CNN can't indicate if live fire was used.

CNN footage shows soldiers fired rubber bullets.

It seems that in the video multiple rounds can be seen fired successively. Red markings can be on magazines.

You cant fire live bullets when adapter is on.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

One fact speaks in favour of the video, and that photos that seems to be taken at the same location and time,
were published on Facebook May15 = same day, so even if the videos were released a few days later,
they were not taken later than May15.

Logically, the video could have been recorded before the event, but that raises a lot of uncomfortable
questions, that I prefer not even thinking about.

 

[Falcon29]

Its pistol bullet.

IDF has low caliber rifles that they used to use during the intifada such as the Ruger.

If u claim there was live fire from Israeli sides u should bring proves.

There were eyewitnesses and medical records and numerous videos showing the angles. Whatever killed them came at them from Israeli troops/border police inside occupied Palestinian territory.

There's no such thing as fire from the Palestinian 'side' if that's what you're trying to suggest.

CNN footage shows soldiers fired rubber bullets.

This doesn't matter, there were multiple groups of border police/troops.

You cant fire live bullets when adapter is on.

They have both live ammunition and rubber bullets. You realize that Israel hasn't denied killing the two?

One fact speaks in favour of the video, and that photos that seems to be taken at the same location and time,
were published on Facebook May15 = same day, so even if the videos were released a few days later,
they were not taken later than May15.

Logically, the video could have been recorded before the event, but that raises a lot of uncomfortable
questions, that I prefer not even thinking about.

Are you out of your mind? There are twelve hours of footage showing what occurred prior to the shooting and tear gas being fired.

There's no logic in anything you say. You're trying to give so many different narratives to confuse people. Which means Israel and their supporters have something to hide.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Are you out of your mind? There are twelve hours of footage showing what occurred prior to the shooting and tear gas being fired.

There's no logic in anything you say. You're trying to give so many different narratives to confuse people. Which means Israel and their supporters have something to hide.

No, by applying logic, You can say that a photo that is published at a certain date,
was not taken after that date, but it doesn't prove it was taken that date.
It could still be taken before that date.
If anyone in addition can prove that it cannot been taken before that date, then
it has been proven that it was taken that date.

 

[Falcon29]

No, by applying logic, You can say that a photo that is published at a certain date,
was not taken after that date, but it doesn't prove it was taken that date.
It could still be taken before that date.
If anyone in addition can prove that it cannot been taken before that date, then
it has been proven that it was taken that date.

By applying logic, you examine 12 hours of unedited footage and realize that two got shot killed while another two injured in that day therefore it was on that day. You've ran out of your endless excuses, I don't know why I'm even taking the time to respond to you.

Please show me where the IDF denied they killed these two youth. So far, they haven't, they've actually said it was an act for their lives as stated by Israel's defense minister.

 

[TheNoob]

Barbaric creatures...

 

[Dubious]

Beitunya, West Bank (CNN) -- Fakher Zayed is accustomed to trouble erupting on his doorstep.

For the past several years, Palestinian protesters have often clashed with Israeli security forces in front of his house. The four-story building stands on the edge of the West Bank village of Beitunya, within sight of the Israeli separation barrier and Ofer prison.

At first, the May 15 anniversary of the "Nakba," the exodus of more than 700,000 Palestinians after the 1948 Arab-Israeli war, looked like just another day of Israeli-Palestinian skirmishing.

"(The Palestinians) were throwing stones, and the (Israeli) soldiers throw the tear gas. Plastic bullets," Zayed said. "They run away. After three or four minutes, they came back to throw stones again."

To protect his home, his family and his carpentry business, Zayed installed more than half a dozen security cameras around his building, which operate 24 hours a day.

Last Thursday, these cameras captured the chilling shooting deaths of two Palestinian teenagers. According to six hours of raw, unedited video distributed by the children's rights advocacy organization Defense for Children International and reviewed by CNN, the two boys -- ages 17 and 16 -- were shot on the same patch of asphalt on the same day, the second victim 73 minutes after the first.

The families of the boys, as well as Zayed, blame the Israeli military for the killings.

"This is the first time they're shooting to kill here," Zayed said, speaking to CNN while standing on the exact spot outside his home where the two boys were filmed being shot.

But an Israeli military spokesman say its forces fired no live rounds during hours of clashes on May 15.

"During that demonstration that was extremely violent, the Israeli Defense Force used crowd-control methods and riot-dispersal means to prevent and control the overflow of the violence," Lt. Col. Peter Lerner told CNN.

"The preliminary IDF inquiry indicates that no live fire was shot at all on Thursday during the riots in Beitunya, and we have to determine what caused this result," Lerner added.

Security camera footage

CNN producer Kareem Khadder was filming the clashes in Beitunya on May 15.

Several dozen Palestinian youths used the wall of Zayed's house as cover. Periodically, they jumped out to hurl stones at about a half-dozen Israeli soldiers and border police officers standing on a hilltop perhaps 100 meters away. The Israeli forces responded with volleys of tear gas while periodically firing rubber-coated bullets from their rifles.

At one point, Khadder filmed a Palestinian teenager who appeared to be struck in the leg with one of these semi-lethal rounds. The boy hopped and limped for a few seconds in obvious pain but then turned around and rejoined the clashes.

At 1:45 p.m. May 15, Zayed's security camera caught the moment when one of the stone-throwing boys was mortally wounded.

Seventeen-year-old Nadeem Nouwarah was dressed in a sleeveless black t-shirt, wearing a black and white kefiyeh scarf to cover his face and carrying a backpack over both shoulders. As he walked toward the Israeli military positions in front of Zayed's door, Nouwarah suddenly fell forward, landing briefly on his hands, before rolling over to lie on his back.

Within seconds, a crowd of Palestinians gathered to lift Nouwarah and rush him to a waiting ambulance. According to a medical report, Nouwarah was pronounced dead in a hospital less than two hours later, having suffered a single bullet wound that entered his chest and passed out his back.

Though Khadder didn't know it at the time, he was filming two Israeli security troops firing their rifles at the Palestinian protesters at the same exact moment when Nouwarah was shot. In the video, it is not clear what kind of rounds the Israelis were shooting or whether their gunfire hit Nouwarah. However, Khadder's camera shows that less than 15 seconds after one of these gunshots, Palestinians were already racing to put the fatally wounded Nouwarah in the ambulance.

Suffering the effects of tear gas, Khadder soon left the protest. He was unaware that Nouwarah's wounds were fatal.

At 2:58 p.m., the security cameras filmed a second fatal shooting. Sixteen-year-old Mohammad Odeh Salameh was at the front lines of the protest, wearing a green Hamas flag as a cape as well as a green Hamas headband over his black mask.

As he was walking away from the Israeli positions, he suddenly fell to the ground and struggled briefly to get up. The boy was shot just a few steps from where Nouwarah had been wounded.

Doctors pronounced Salameh dead on arrival at the hospital, with a bullet wound that had pierced his back and exited his chest.

School in mourning

At St. George's school in Ramallah, relatives and classmates of the first victim, Nouwarah, were in mourning this week. Students wore black t-shirts with photos of the smiling boy. The eleventh-grader was pictured wearing a backward baseball cap.

"There were 21 students in our grade," said his 16-year-old classmate George Yousef. "Now, we are 20."

Nouwarah's father, Siam, told CNN he had expressly instructed his eldest son not to attend the Nakba protests.

"Afterwards, I felt he was not convinced with what I told him," said Siam, who works as a hairdresser in Ramallah.

Nouwarah appeared to have gone to the anti-Israel protests directly from school on the afternoon of May 15. His father showed CNN the bloody backpack his son was wearing when he was shot.

There was a small hole in the bag, in roughly the same location where the bullet would have exited Nouwarah's body.

Siam Nouwarah then pulled a packet of bloodstained papers out of the bag. They were photocopies of a textbook that included the writings of Anton Chekhov, accompanied by a teenage student's handwriting, doodles and class notes.

"We were surprised when we took the school backpack back from the hospital to find this bullet inside," said the elder Nouwarah. He then pulled a small used bullet stored in a plastic bag out of the backpack.

The metal slug appeared to be from a 556 NATO round, the standard ammunition used in M-16 rifles carried by Israeli security forces. It was impossible for CNN to confirm the authenticity of the bullet.

Siam Nouwarah said he was saving it for a forensic examination. He accuses Israeli soldiers of killing his son.

"The entire world should understand and know that my son was wearing a school backpack and leaving school when he was assassinated in cold blood," the grieving father said.

Ballistics

On Thursday, Lerner, the Israeli military spokesman, told CNN that a request had been put in with the Palestinian Authority to do a ballistic report on the bullet found in Nouwarah's backpack.

"That round that was presented shouldn't have been in the bag, so it also raises a question," he said. Lerner repeated the military's assertion that Israeli security forces fired only rubber-coated bullets -- which are not designed to penetrate bodies -- in Beitunya on May 15.

Regarding the CNN video of the Israeli security forces firing rifles at the Palestinian demonstrators at the moment when Nouwarah was shot, Lerner said the weapons being used had an attachment at the end of the barrel for firing rubber-coated projectiles.

Asked whether there could been some malfunction or mistake that would have led to the firing of a lethal round rather than a rubber-coated projectile, Lerner said, "I'm not aware of any malfunction at this time."

Meanwhile, the U.S. State Department has joined several human rights groups calling for an investigation into the deadly incident.

"I am deeply concerned about the circumstances surrounding the recent death of two Palestinian minors," wrote Christopher Gunness, a spokesman for the United Nations in the West Bank.

According to initial reports, Gunness added, both boys appeared "unarmed and appeared to pose no direct threat."


Father blames Israeli military in Palestinian teens' deaths - CNN.com

 

[500]

IDF has low caliber rifles that they used to use during the intifada such as the Ruger.

No one would bother using special rifles.

There were eyewitnesses and medical records and numerous videos showing the angles. Whatever killed them came at them from Israeli troops/border police inside occupied Palestinian territory.

Videos show masked men fainting on cam. Proves nothing.

They have both live ammunition and rubber bullets. You realize that Israel hasn't denied killing the two?

Israel denied using live ammunition. CNN footage proves Israeli point of view.

If u have any footage of Israelis firing live ammo you are welcome to show.

 

[Falcon29]

No one would bother using special rifles.

For the same reason they didn't bother doing so during the Palestinian uprising ....

Videos show masked men fainting on cam. Proves nothing.

Whom were identified following the shootings.

Israel denied using live ammunition. CNN footage proves Israeli point of view.

Israel also claimed they were killed in a violent clash before the video was released. After the video was released they came up with a new conspiracy theory. Israel lies for PR purposes.

The video is of one group of soldiers and not the other two groups.

If u have any footage of Israelis firing live ammo you are welcome to show.

We don't need footage, the bullet wounds from the medical examinations indicate live ammunition was used. Including almost every eye witness other than the IDF members present.

 

[500]

There is no any conspiracy. Quadrillion journalists who were present there did not film Israelis firing live fire.

 

[Falcon29]

There is no any conspiracy. Quadrillion journalists who were present there did not film Israelis firing live fire.

The foreign journalists had been preparing to pack up and took to the side to rest since everything was largely calm at that point. It had been going on for hours. The Israelis were hundreds of meters away in some cases and stationed in parking lots behind buildings.

The conspiracy has came from Israel claiming that Palestinians deliberately shot their own for PR purposes when they don't need to do much to demonize Israel as Israel already does a good job at harming its own reputation.

Not to mention this occurred in Palestinian territory, not in Israeli territory.

 

[500]

The foreign journalists had been preparing to pack up and took to the side to rest since everything was largely calm at that point. It had been going on for hours. The Israelis were hundreds of meters away in some cases and stationed in parking lots behind buildings.

The conspiracy has came from Israel claiming that Palestinians deliberately shot their own for PR purposes when they don't need to do much to demonize Israel as Israel already does a good job at harming its own reputation.

Not to mention this occurred in Palestinian territory, not in Israeli territory.

What are u talking about? There were swarms of journalists. U can see 3 photographers rushing to film one fainted guy. There were more journalists than protestors.