Focus on training new generation, set up girls’ schools, AIMPLB tells Muslims

Pajeet · Apr 1, 2022

We need to learn from Indonasia :

And Eqypt :

Azadkashmir · Apr 1, 2022

Pajeet said:
We need to learn from Indonasia :

And Eqypt :

lol nice joke

Vapnope · Apr 1, 2022

@jamahir I see you continously attack Muskan for her choice to wear Burqah/hijab, while you have every right to criticize AIMPLB but you, me or AIMPLB should not decide what a girl should wear. Let's leave it to women to decide what to wear and what to not.

I understand that you want people to voice for the progressive ideas however we should not think that a victim is not a victim (Muskan in this case) because he/she fails to speak for other issues (suicide in this case).

Do you think we should not raise our voice for Rohingyas just because they did not raise their voice for Yazidi tribe? Or do you think Kashmiri Pandit should not be sided with because they do not speak for dalits? I hope you understand what i am trying to say here.

Ideally we should raise our voice for every oppression, every biasedness and every inequality in the world.

jamahir · Apr 1, 2022

Vapnope said:
@jamahir I see you continously attack Muskan for her choice to wear Burqah/hijab, while you have every right to criticize AIMPLB but you, me or AIMPLB should not decide what a girl should wear. Let's leave it to women to decide what to wear and what to not.

I understand that you want people to voice for the progressive ideas however we should not think that a victim is not a victim (Muskan in this case) because he/she fails to speak for other issues (suicide in this case).

Do you think we should not raise our voice for Rohingyas just because they did not raise their voice for Yazidi tribe? Or do you think Kashmiri Pandit should not be sided with because they do not speak for dalits? I hope you understand what i am trying to say here.

Ideally we should raise our voice for every oppression, every biasedness and every inequality in the world.

"Ideally we should raise our voice for every oppression, every biasedness and every inequality in the world." Absolutely, that's what Che Guevara also said. Let us take Muskan and see this in three angles :

1. The human angle : She lives in Shimoga in Karnataka state whose capital is Bangalore which is where that college girl suicided. Not very far from Muskan's college and home. How does she think she can conduct furious press conferences for her burqa, accompanied by her PFI-leader father, but not speak for three seconds about the oppressions against her own student community ? Does she think her burqa is worth more than the Bangalore girl's life ?

2. The religious angle : You speak of her choice to wear the burqa so what is her rationale for her choice ? It can't be Islam the burqa has nothing to do with Islam. I address the non-relation in this post. In fact the burqa is anti-Islam because it bars the female from natural participation in public life and Islam doesn't teach that the female has to hate herself for being female, to hide herself away from the males because of some strange sense of morality. In every progressive Muslim-majority society the leaders of the revolutionaries and the leaders didn't force the burqa on their female relatives. Does Muskan think she is greater than these revolutionaries ? So, what is her rationale for wearing and agitating for it because there's no religious standing ? Her supporters like the AIMIM party of the Owaisis pasted banners saying "Pehle hijab, phir kitaab". Are they followers of the same religion whose initiator said that attaining knowledge should be the duty of every Muslim even if they have to go as far as China ?

3. The social angle : Females in Afghanistan kicked and burned the burqa publicly despite being in the fear kingdom of the Taliban, females in Pakistan take out Aurat Marches and here in India we have Muskan. The argument of choice in burqa is an illusion because the few fanatic wearers and their fanatic, misinformed and misguided male supporters will create an atmosphere where the remaining females will be under daily pressure to wear it. Among my own female relatives who didn't wear the burqa in my younger years there is a dear cousin who is a teacher and she said to her husband ( who is no more ) when I was at their house that some in her city scold females who don't wear it, so there becomes a societal pressure and most prefer to go with the pressure and convince themselves that the burqa has religious obligation instead of making the effort to change the mob-led "leaders of the community" and their street-level enforcers. Some years ago when my cousin and her husband would come to my city for her cancer treatment she would go to the hospital without the burqa and once they accompanied me to a good tea house without her wearing it and also to a clothes market. In India-administered Kashmir there is a foul all-burqa group called Dukhtaraan-e-Millat whose leader is Asiya Andrabi and they had announced more than 10 years ago that they would throw acid on those Kashmiri females who don't wear the burqa. That created a regressive and oppressive atmosphere in Kashmir whose manifestations later included rape and death threats to an all-girl trio music band in Kashmir called Pragaash and that band had to close down. So the "Hijab is my pride" marches reflect the misinformed and misguided choices of a few but an imposition and suffocation on the rest and "choice" is an illusion.

I will reply to your reply in half an hour.

jamahir · Apr 1, 2022

Pajeet said:
We need to learn from Indonasia :

And Eqypt :

While yes India needs to learn from Egypt, India needs to learn from the Communist movement and change its non-sensible national anthem to the modernized and bettered version of The Internationale.

Vapnope · Apr 1, 2022

jamahir said:
"Ideally we should raise our voice for every oppression, every biasedness and every inequality in the world." Absolutely, that's what Che Guevara also said. Let us take Muskan and see this in three angles :

1. The human angle : She lives in Shimoga in Karnataka state whose capital is Bangalore which is where that college girl suicided. Not very far from Muskan's college and home. How does she think she can conduct furious press conferences for her burqa, accompanied by her PFI-leader father, but not speak for three seconds about the oppressions against her own student community ? Does she think her burqa is worth more than the Bangalore girl's life ?

2. The religious angle : You speak of her choice to wear the burqa so what is her rationale for her choice ? It can't be Islam the burqa has nothing to do with Islam. I address the non-relation in this post. In fact the burqa is anti-Islam because it bars the female from natural participation in public life and Islam doesn't teach that the female has to hate herself for being female, to hide herself away from the males because of some strange sense of morality. In every progressive Muslim-majority society the leaders of the revolutionaries and the leaders didn't force the burqa on their female relatives. Does Muskan think she is greater than these revolutionaries ? So, what is her rationale for wearing and agitating for it because there's no religious standing ? Her supporters like the AIMIM party of the Owaisis pasted banners saying "Pehle hijab, phir kitaab". Are they followers of the same religion whose initiator said that attaining knowledge should be the duty of every Muslim even if they have to go as far as China ?

3. The social angle : Females in Afghanistan kicked and burned the burqa publicly despite being in the fear kingdom of the Taliban, females in Pakistan take out Aurat Marches and here in India we have Muskan. The argument of choice in burqa is an illusion because the few fanatic wearers and their fanatic, misinformed and misguided male supporters will create an atmosphere where the remaining females will be under daily pressure to wear it. Among my own female relatives who didn't wear the burqa in my younger years there is a dear cousin who is a teacher and she said to her husband ( who is no more ) when I was at their house that some in her city scold females who don't wear it, so there becomes a societal pressure and most prefer to go with the pressure and convince themselves that the burqa has religious obligation instead of making the effort to change the mob-led "leaders of the community" and their street-level enforcers. Some years ago when my cousin and her husband would come to my city for her cancer treatment she would go to the hospital without the burqa and once they accompanied me to a good tea house without her wearing it and also to a clothes market. In India-administered Kashmir there is a foul all-burqa group called Dukhtaraan-e-Millat whose leader is Asiya Andrabi and they had announced more than 10 years ago that they would throw acid on those Kashmiri females who don't wear the burqa. That created a regressive and oppressive atmosphere in Kashmir whose manifestations later included rape and death threats to an all-girl trio music band in Kashmir called Pragaash and that band had to close down. So the "Hijab is my pride" marches reflect the misinformed and misguided choices of a few but an imposition and suffocation on the rest and "choice" is an illusion.

I will reply to your reply in half an hour.

Like i already said that no one other than women themselves should be allowed to force a specific dress code on them.

Burqah is islamic or not is not the debate here, she should not be harassed for wearing anything she likes that includes bikini or a burqah. Do you think it is appropririate to go and tell women that hey burqah is not islamic so you should throw it away because Hindutvadis harassed you because of it?

Just like social norm in Islamic countries, in West women are also subtly shamed if they don't show their skins. Women have been ridiculed because they chose not to wear "Traditional" dresses and interestingly no one talks about it.

Rafi · Apr 1, 2022

Vapnope said:
Like i already said that no one other than women themselves should be allowed to force a specific dress code on them.

Burqah is islamic or not is not the debate here, she should not be harassed for wearing anything she likes that includes bikini or a burqah. Do you think it is appropririate to go and tell women that hey burqah is not islamic so you should throw it away because Hindutvadis harassed you because of it?

Just like social norm in Islamic countries, in West women are also subtly shamed if they don't show their skins. Women have been ridiculed because they chose not to wear "Traditional" dresses and interestingly no one talks about it.

Woman have the right to their own bodies, men and society should not have a say, obviously within reason.

jamahir · Apr 1, 2022

Vapnope said:
Like i already said that no one other than women themselves should be allowed to force a specific dress code on them.

Burqah is islamic or not is not the debate here, she should not be harassed for wearing anything she likes that includes bikini or a burqah. Do you think it is appropririate to go and tell women that hey burqah is not islamic so you should throw it away because Hindutvadis harassed you because of it?

Just like social norm in Islamic countries, in West women are also subtly shamed if they don't show their skins. Women have been ridiculed because they chose not to wear "Traditional" dresses and interestingly no one talks about it.

"Burqah is Islamic or not is not the debate here". Vapnope bhai, that is the exact debate here, that is what is not being debated by her. She has been brainwashed to find a religious obligation where there is none. She is in the wrong and is imposing a wrong order. She is the subdued version of Asiya Andrabi who in turn is the female version of the Taliban. How can these people be allowed their choice and destroy society ? OK, India is not quite a non-destroyed society anyway, LOL. During my school and two college years no girl wore the burqa so from where did this college girl suddenly find the explanation to wear it ?

The Hindutvadis are coming in for their own agenda but what about the rest of the Muslims ?

El Sidd · Apr 1, 2022

Reported for misleading thread title.

jamahir · Apr 1, 2022

El Sidd said:
Reported for misleading thread title.

Reported you for reporting unnecessarily and being a serial troll. Which non-Indian knows what is AIMPLB ?

El Sidd · Apr 1, 2022

jamahir said:
Reported you for reporting unnecessarily and being a serial troll. Which non-Indian knows what is AIMPLB ?

Lets see who wins

Vapnope · Apr 1, 2022

jamahir said:
"Burqaq is Islamic or not is not the debate here". Vapnope bhai, that is the exact debate here, that is what is not being debated by her. She has been brainwashed to find a religious obligation where there is none. She is in the wrong and is imposing a wrong order. She is the subdued version of Asiya Andrabi who in turn is the female version of the Taliban. How can these people be allowed their choice ? During my school and two college years no girl wore the burqa so from where did this college girl suddenly find the explanation to wear it ?

Jamahir, your anecdote doesn't represent the whole of Islamic society. As we still have pictures before partition where women can be seen wearing burqah. Veil was considered a symbol of sanctity in Africa even before Islam and since the proponents of burqah quote a verse from Quran, this needs an academic debate (which btw is pretty much there) but saying that your school of thought is the only true islamic, is problematic.

hussain0216 · Apr 1, 2022

jamahir said:
While yes India needs to learn from Egypt, India needs to learn from the Communist movement and change its non-sensible national anthem to the modernized and bettered version of The Internationale.

Yaar communism is a defunct ideology, it's basically collapsed why do you keep bringing this bullshit up?

blain2 · Apr 1, 2022

jamahir said:
"Burqah is Islamic or not is not the debate here". Vapnope bhai, that is the exact debate here, that is what is not being debated by her. She has been brainwashed to find a religious obligation where there is none. She is in the wrong and is imposing a wrong order. She is the subdued version of Asiya Andrabi who in turn is the female version of the Taliban. How can these people be allowed their choice and destroy society ? OK, India is not quite a non-destroyed society anyway, LOL. During my school and two college years no girl wore the burqa so from where did this college girl suddenly find the explanation to wear it ?

The Hindutvadis are coming in for their own agenda but what about the rest of the Muslims ?

None of your business to tell her or any Muslim that they, we have been brainwashed. Do you see Muslims telling Hindus or Sikhs what they should wear or not? I see Sikhs without Turbans and could make the same argument that it is not a religious obligation because many Sikhs don't wear it. You want to go to Scripture? I can make a point that the Quran mentions women covering. How you implement is based on one's own interpretation and conviction but how in the hell is a local court deciding that Muslim women don't have to cover?

This decision is best left to each individual's personal conviction and choice.

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Focus on training new generation, set up girls’ schools, AIMPLB tells Muslims