Florida Pulse gay club attacked in Orlando - 50 dead and 53 injured

[Viper0011.]

Here is a 'guide' to weapons to make life simple for everyone...

Did you do this yourself? Its hilarious but good work. Never seen a vehicle called an AR-15

 

[gambit]

Did you do this yourself? Its hilarious but good work. Never seen a vehicle called an AR-15

A gunowner and Afghan veteran friend sent it to me. It says much about the ignorance and knee jerk responses most people have about guns.

 

[Solomon2]

Muslims don't need Islam. I don't know why you're so adamant in insisting that. Christians and Jews don't need Christianity, but they still identify with those religions, due to material, societal and personal benefits those religions bring. If you want an example, look at the Jewish people. They know their religion is man-made, but they need to make claims to Israel. They also need it to influence the followers of Christianity. They also need it to make for a distinct heritage. Those are just some examples. I don't agree with this approach, and I would prefer there is no religion at all. Since I'm well informed, able to critically think and realize that people know religion is man made but use it to their benefit, overwhelmingly in negative ways.

I don't agree about singling out Muslims and attacking them, I made that clear in my long post in this thread. It seems people are simply not able to do basic comprehension, or they ignore the legitimate points I made. In short, I said Muslims are singled out in attacks on religion, because the other two religions have been dumbed down into something they never were, which gives them credibility to attack Islam.

75 years later on, the motives behind the pogroms on Baghdad's Jews are the same as the Sarona Market and Orlando attacks: murderous hatred

Published: 06.13.16, 23:31 / Israel Opinion


It happens again and again. Last week at Sarona Market, Saturday in Orlando, and exactly 75 years ago, June 1941, during the Shavuot holiday, in Baghdad, Iraq, when a mob set out on a pogrom against the Jews. Some 180 Jews were murdered in the "Farhud," the Iraqi version of Kristallnacht. That isn't a mistake. It was a night of bloodshed preceded by Nazi propaganda directed by the German ambassador in Baghdad, Dr. Fritz Grobba.


Iraq was in those days an independent country. Grobba's influence on the local elite was large. Inter alia, he sent delegations to Berlin, bought a newspaper and took pains to publish therein Hitler's Mein Kampf in installments. The hatred of Jews was not because of Zionism. The majority of Iraq's Jews were not then Zionists. They were, precisely like the Jews of Germany, part of the backbone of the economy, development and progress. During those years, Grobba ensured a steady and virulent drip of anti-Semitic Nazi propaganda. The drip worked: The government took a series of steps against Jews, and their situation worsened.


Later, after having successfully spread the al-Aqsa plot hoaxthroughout Palestine and after getting into trouble with the British Mandate authorities, the Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin al-Husseini, came to Baghdad and added fuel to the fire. Two months before the Farhud, a pro-Nazi coup took place in Iraq, headed by Rashid Ali al-Gaylani. The Second World War was at its height, and the British were advancing on Baghdad. Al-Gaylani and the mufti, the largest inciters, fled to Berlin, where they were received as heroes. The two left the massacre of the Jews of Baghdad to the incited local crowd.

Mourners in San Francisco following Orlando shooting (Photo: AFP)


Certain anti-Zionist Jews try to cultivate the legend of the Farhud pogroms as being the result of Arab fears of the Zionist enterprise. These people have made the justification for Arab anti-Semitism and terrorism their life's work. They want to see that revolution as a sort of opposition to colonialism and Zionism. Seventy-five years have passed, and the terrorist attack at Sarona Market is also receiving justifications. It isn't incitement, some are trying to tell us, it's opposition to the occupation.


As long as these were the fringe of the fringe—so be it. Such hallucinatory phenomena have always existed. But last week, Tel Aviv Mayor Ron Huldai himself tried to explain that Israel was to blame for the Sarona attack. Until larger attacks happen, he added, Israelis won't understand. What won't they understand? That we must end the occupation.

Mourners in Tel Aviv following Sarona Market attack (Photo: Reuters)


Huldai "transformed" the murderers who came to Tel Aviv to peace activists. They didn't know that they were, but Huldai knows. Yes, Israel offered the Palestinians a state; yes, they rejected Barak's offer at Camp, Clinton's deal in 2000, and two drafts by John Kerry in 2014, but Huldai blames Israel. Huldai, not the regular loathsome anti-Zionists to whose grating voices we have become accustomed.


This time, it's the person who is a potential candidate for the leadership of the Labor party. We can assume that the mayor of Orlando will not tell the people of his city that they deserved it, and that it's because of the American occupation in Iraq. He also won't tell them that Americans deserve a much more serious attack so that they can understand the attackers' motives.

Tel Aviv Mayor Ron Huldai

Seventy-five years separate the attack in Baghdad from the attacks in Sarona and Orlando. It didn't happen then for freedom and liberation, and today it didn't happen to promote freedom and liberation. Then and now, they were murderous hate crimes.


When I heard about Huldai, if I may admit, I felt a pang in my heart. Palestinians deserve freedom and self-determination. The current government is bad for Israel, and we should replace it. But when Huldai and those like him who understand and justify terrorism are the alternative, then the right will remain in power forever.

 

[Desert Fox]

Wouldn't you think that in light of this massacre that Obama would stop letting in unknown Syrian 'refugees' ( a lot of military aged guys in those pics)? NAH !!!

The Democrats want the best of both worlds: they want the gays and the Syrian refugees under one roof.

 

[gambit]

Some facts for those who lack critical thinking skills...

Neither am I, just wanted to point out the obvious error in your post

A minor one. You have a sacred text, the Quran. Then after the Quran came a string of commentaries from respected religious leaders for about 1400 yrs. Some of those commentaries are more important than others. Americans do not care what you guys call those texts.

My point is that just as the Muslims insists that non-Muslims take into considerations everything associated with the Muslims' faith, we Americans insists that if non-Americans want to talk about the US legal system, have ready our secular sacred text -- the US Constitution, and along with it, a string of commentaries, from respected secular priests of American democracy, such as The Federalist Papers or Democracy In America. Whatever you want to call them is irrelevant to us just as long as you have them on hand if you want to debate Americans about America.

 

[Kaniska]

At one point of time, US has to think about its immigration process...What kind of people are entering to the country...

 

[-SINAN-]

Are you an ex-military or police officer ?

YOU are. Still.

The highlighted is nothing like what you claimed I said. For someone who claimed to have military service with a weapon that is fully automatic, if you had to strain what I said...

" an amateur can do the same damage with a pistol as he could with a semi-auto like an AR-15. "

...To mean that pistol = rifle, either you have never shoot that G3 like you claimed, or that you have a dishonest agenda about my posts in this discussion.

1-) Military service is compulsive in Turkey, meaning every adult male citizen of Turkey is able to use assault weapons.

2-) A rifle has so much power when compared to a pistol. I think, you know this. While a pistols bullet will kill or wound one person at a time. A rifle's single bullet will able to kill more person, all it's more fatal to human body. Hence you can do more damage with a rifle comparing to the damage of a pistol.

I think, you know this but you are trying to load different meanings to my posts, accuse me of being dishonest.

Good, then we should ban some cars next. What useful purpose does a Ferrari have ?

I do not believe you are serious about banning some designs of knives. You said the above because what the UK doctors wanted put you into a philosophical bind. You have consistently argued that banning a tool would solve a problem, and said very little about the human factor of the problem. You did not know what the UK doctors want so now you are in the proverbial 'slippery slope' dilemma. Knives, cars, what next ?

I'm not in a dilemma. Yes, i didn't know "what the UK doctors want"...so i said "If some certain kitchen knives do more damage to humans when stabbed...and if other kitchen knives would still do the cooking job."

So, i stand behind, what i have said.

Also, "banning of the cars" example, is not a good example.

Let me give you one;

If doctors of the UK wants to change the design of the bumpers of some cars as it would do more damage to pedestrians in an accident. Yes, i would support that too.

You might want to consider the possibility that my point of view is the correct one.

Same goes for you as well.

Some facts for those who lack critical thinking skills...

This is a gross way of thinking for rationalizing the death of an innocent soul whom has been killed in a barbaric way. Who ever made this chart, is not respecting human life.

 

[IceCold]

Because people seems to think that mass shootings like this and the Sandy Hook school constitutes the bulk of gun related violence in America.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States

This information is not new. And it is intellectually dishonest to ignore this when gang related violence, suicides, and mass shootings contributes to the overall figure.


So to you, 'overwhelmingly' = 'alone'.

Somebody contact the dictionary makers.


I called you a liar because you cannot prove that I said gun related violence came from gang ALONE.


Your respect is meaningless to me. You are nothing but an anonymous handle on the Internet. As such, it is the CONTENTS of your posts that matters. But when YOU have to resort to putting words into my (virtual) mouth, that reveals more of your intelligence than of mine.


For all the yrs I have been on this forum, it is an extreme that I would comment about anything Pakistani outside of the military. I may touch a little on the religious aspects of Pakistani society, but even that is rare, and forum old timers know that. On the other hand, people like you who have very little or no experience about America and Americans have no problems injecting your ignorant 'opinions' and it is YOU who copied/pasted his way into being an 'expert' on America.

You want to see delusional ? Go look in the mirror.

Nothing but more rant from an old fool and a hypocrite. The only one deceiving here is you. First you say gun violence is overwhelmingly gang related and when others challenge your claim you start calling them liars. Now dont waste my time, i am not interested in going in circles with you.

 

[gambit]

Nothing but more rant from an old fool and a hypocrite. The only one deceiving here is you. First you say gun violence is overwhelmingly gang related and when others challenge your claim you start calling them liars. Now dont waste my time, i am not interested in going in circles with you.

You did not challenged my claim. You put words in my mouth. And what I said is FACTUALLY correct.

What make a 'developed' country ? A major component of what is a 'developed' country is the ability and willingness to quantify anything possible. What state/province grows what crops ? Consume how much coal ? Ship how many tonnage of goods ? Use how much concrete ? And so on...

Guns, their effects, and their results are no different. In the US, not only the government but universities, think tanks, and newspapers did their best to quantify how many guns are sold, destroyed, or used in any way, whether it is a commission of a crime or in self defense.

So let us take a look at this chart again, shall we ?

We have murders, which can come from running someone over with a car, use a knife to stab, or bludgeoning someone to death. There are many ways to kill someone without using a gun. So out of the total deaths in the US, 0.6% were murders. Of that 0.6% a tiny sliver of 0.2% is mass shootings. Rule out suicides by guns, what else can it be but from gang related killings that involved guns ?

Is this chain of reasoning too complex for you ? It should not. After all, I am an American so by default, I must be of inferior intelligence to the rest of the world, no ? So if I can finger this out, why not you ?

You said this...

You made it look as if gun violence is something done by gangs alone which is not the case as evident from these repeated mass shootings.

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/florida-...d-and-53-injured.434579/page-32#ixzz4BdWmH2yC

What I said was...

For starter, gun related violence are overwhelmingly gang related.

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/florida-...d-and-53-injured.434579/page-31#ixzz4BdX3VLLM

We both used the words 'gun violence' to mean ALL violence that involves guns. Not just mass shootings or suicides or accidental discharges or murders or gang related. The words 'gun violence' means in general and ALL of those things.

So when I said that in America, gun violence is overwhelmingly gang related is factually correct, backed up statistics collected by various groups other than the government throughout decades.

Overwhelming does not mean alone.

What you claimed I said was wrong and that made you correctly -- a liar.

 

[HeinzG]

The guy was gay.....Bill Maher once said that many of these home grown terrorists do it out of guilt...remember how the 911 fuckers ordered prostitutes in their hotel room...they do the things that they find in the free world...and then they feel guilty because the big guy in the sky is watching and then they go on holy war. Fuckwits!

Then you people should do something about these people, they are defaming your religion.

 

[-SINAN-]

You did not challenged my claim. You put words in my mouth. And what I said is FACTUALLY correct.

What make a 'developed' country ? A major component of what is a 'developed' country is the ability and willingness to quantify anything possible. What state/province grows what crops ? Consume how much coal ? Ship how many tonnage of goods ? Use how much concrete ? And so on...

Guns, their effects, and their results are no different. In the US, not only the government but universities, think tanks, and newspapers did their best to quantify how many guns are sold, destroyed, or used in any way, whether it is a commission of a crime or in self defense.

So let us take a look at this chart again, shall we ?

We have murders, which can come from running someone over with a car, use a knife to stab, or bludgeoning someone to death. There are many ways to kill someone without using a gun. So out of the total deaths in the US, 0.6% were murders. Of that 0.6% a tiny sliver of 0.2% is mass shootings. Rule out suicides by guns, what else can it be but from gang related killings that involved guns ?

Is this chain of reasoning too complex for you ? It should not. After all, I am an American so by default, I must be of inferior intelligence to the rest of the world, no ? So if I can finger this out, why not you ?

You said this...


What I said was...


We both used the words 'gun violence' to mean ALL violence that involves guns. Not just mass shootings or suicides or accidental discharges or murders or gang related. The words 'gun violence' means in general and ALL of those things.

So when I said that in America, gun violence is overwhelmingly gang related is factually correct, backed up statistics collected by various groups other than the government throughout decades.

Overwhelming does not mean alone.

What you claimed I said was wrong and that made you correctly -- a liar.

Lol, thanks for letting me go of the hook. I was not really into a debate. Hope, we can meet and debate in the future about a subject that we are both into.

 

[temporary12345]

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/nati...talk-Omar-Mateen-out-of-attack-382958401.html

http://www.newsadvance.com/news/nat...cle_8494b38e-60c0-5060-9603-8c30656caffe.html


I wonder how the conversation would have proceeded:

Omar: Honey would you drive me to a Gay club?

Noor: Off course hubby. That what good wives are for: Driving their husband to Gay clubs.

(sometime later)

Omar: Honey, I going to that that gay club again.

Noor: I think that was a one time fling hubby. Don't you love me! Don't you! Don't you! (accompanied by sobbing)

Omar: Honey I love you. I am going back to shoot as many fags as I can. Allahu-akbar.

Noor: Don't do it sugar. We would get into a lot of trouble for this.

Omar: Doesn't matter honey. I have to do this to avenge my beloved goat ,Salma, which was killed in a US drone attack. Allahu-akbar.

Noor: Don't say that I didn't warn you though.

 

[Solomon2]

RULE OF LAW
Time Is Running Out for American Muslims

BY J. CHRISTIAN ADAMS JUNE 15, 2016

American Muslims must use the time they have left to unleash a transformation within their community.

The despicable conduct of Omar Mateen’s wife, Noor Zahi Salman, is the latest example. The Orlando shooter's wife allegedly knew of his plan and accompanied him to buy ammunition, yet did nothing to stop him.

Then there was Tashfeen Malik, the obedient jihadist Bonnie Parker, who helped her husband Syed Farook gun down fourteen in San Bernardino.

Days before the killing in Orlando, the Husseini Islamic Center in Sanford, Florida, hosted Sheikh Farrokh Sekaleshfar. The Islamic scholar had previously preached to a crowd of American Muslims in Michigan about gays:

Death is the sentence. There’s nothing to be embarrassed about this. Death is the sentence.​

For this? Skaleshfar earned invitations to speak elsewhere.

Time is running out for American Muslims. Mainstream America can connect the dots from Skaleshfar’s bloodlust to San Bernardino to Fort Hood to Seattle toGarland to an empty field in Somerset -- and finally to Pulse. All of these murderers thought they were acting according to their professed Islamic faith.


I’ll leave it to others to debate the text of the Koran and what it says or does not say. But American Muslims are running out of time because Americans are running out of patience.

With each new slaughter by a jihadist, the American Muslim community exhausts a bit more patience and goodwill of Americans. No matter how many rainbow-colored burkas are posted on Instagram, or how much rhetoric comes from the diminishing president, the message does not match reality.

Goodwill and mercy is an ablative thing. When jihadist after jihadist destroys our treasured domestic tranquility, they will eventually awaken an American resolve that will sweep away these distractions and confront the problem head-on.

It’s why Donald Trump has tapped into a silent mainstream fury. If the attacks by jihadists continue against innocents, what Donald Trump is proposing might not go far enough to many Americans.

I’m not suggesting this is a good thing. This is merely the human condition. It’s what civilizations have done for thousands of years when faced with similar circumstances.

And contrary to the progressive utopian ideal, history hasn’t stopped.

All of those primal impulses can’t be extracted out by four years of Wellesley and the Sunday New York Times, especially when few Americans read the Timesanymore. Hopefully any response from an exhausted America would manifest itself through law instead of pitchforks. But the American Muslim community needs to understand they lose support with every single attack, until they dosomething about it.

Speaking of Wellesley and the New York Times, it’s been predictable and boring to see the enablers attempt to compare the jihadists to Christians. Every religion has its extremists, they tell us:


The truth is that some extremists appear far more prone to act.

The attempt to equate theologies overlooks the importance of mercy in Christianity. Leviticus might say one thing, but Jesus said another.

There’s yet a bigger difference, and one that touches the expanse of the problem for American Muslims. If a series of slaughters were committed by Catholics professing to do so for their faith, I know the response would be quite different. The full evangelizing power of the Catholic Church would be marshaled to clarify the theology and to distance its teachings from the killings.

So far the response from the American Muslim community has been a wee bit of the latter. If the American Muslim community was interested in the former?

They’d stop inviting Sheikh Farrokh Sekaleshfar to speak at mainstream mosques.

If the American Muslim community was interested in the former, we’d read stories about wives turning in would-be jihadist husbands -- instead of about Noor Salman making an ammo run.

They’d stop doing a lot of things, and start doing many others.

Why did Salman not call the police about her husband? There are only a few possibilities. Perhaps she was all-in on the plot, but only in a supporting role. Perhaps she had a blinding loyalty to her husband. Or perhaps she belongs to a culture of silence that made associating with a jihadist killer preferable to crossing that culture.



Americans can’t help but notice the rapid-response public relations machine that now follows each of these jihadist slaughters.

Does Ibrahim Hooper of CAIR have a black Lincoln with a driver standing by around the clock to rush him to the presser the second the next shooter is pegged as a jihadist? Does President Obama’s press staff have a teleprompter file loaded, ready to load at a moment’s notice with names and places left blank? “Mass_Killing_By_Jihadist_Who_is_Not_a_Jihadist.doc”?

Therein lies the lie. Americans have a deep wellspring of decency. But they also treasure the greatness of this nation that has separated the American experience from all the horrors of history.

Our domestic tranquility might be a higher priority than any other value.

The American Muslim community needs to launch something far bigger, far more effective, and far more theological in response to the slaughters, because time is running out.

 

[Thorough Pro]

Here you go @Solomon2 Pastor Anderson celebrating killing of 50 and showing sadness for killing just 50

So as a gay Muslim his only way to Paradise was to die in a battle to kill as many gay non-Muslims as possible?

But why would a gay Muslim be interested in seventy virgins?

 

[Solomon2]

Here you go @Solomon2 Pastor Anderson celebrating killing of 50 and showing sadness for killing just 50

Never heard of him.

Religion is what you make it. People can take it in part and not in whole, just as you don't have to serve yourself everything from the cafeteria line. A pastor today who trumpets parts of the Bible to promote violence in America is, I think, unlike to reverberate enough to inspire mass violence.