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-One is Barrel length , ULH/LTH are 155mm * 39 caliber gun while Normal Towed/Field gun are 155mm * 52 caliber gun .
-ULH should be designed so that Gun-Train should be capable of negotiating sharp road bends without the need to unhook the gun from the prime mover.
- Rest I think is same as Towed one , both can be airlifted .
So the main reason to go for other towed howitzers and not simply buy more of them, is the smaller caliber right?
You said that the Rheinmetall/Denel offer was ruled out because of Denel, that means the chances for Bhim must be very low too, but what about ammo from Denel like the VLAP, is it prohibited too?
Personally I think the ARCHER could be a good choice for self propelled and the FH 77 for towed howitzers, because IA has experience with the base gun and commonality would ease the licence production, not to mention that the Excalibur ammo would be exellent for precision hits and could be used then at all 3 types of howitzers, but I'm not sure if it is a good idea to depend that much on US weapons and arms.
Personally I think the ARCHER could be a good choice for self propelled and the FH 77 for towed howitzers, because IA has experience with the base gun and commonality would ease the licence production, not to mention that the Excalibur ammo would be exellent for precision hits and could be used then at all 3 types of howitzers, but I'm not sure if it is a good idea to depend that much on US weapons and arms.
Nice to see you after small break
1) Small caliber in addition to that , ULH unlike other Field artillery dosen't need to be broken + reassembled . Can easily be transported or Heli-lifted in mountains . This 145 numbers is for mountain division
Possibly more since along ind-Chi border mountain division is being developed .
2)Yes , as i said Rheinmetal has about 45pc stake /shares .
Or may be it overtook Denel , can't say exactly . i have to check the news for that .
But yes Bhim with T6 is gone ,
I am the most heart-broken person bcoz T6 was the strongest gun on this planet at that time .
Anyways K9 gun as was rumored and was shown at expo mounted on chasis . May be a new Avatar of Bhim on cards .
With regard to 155mm ammo , yes that's also over .
Ask JHA
he will probably tell more about the factory(School/marriage hall) where VLAP production was to happen .
IAI did offer TOT for ammo but they were also chased away by CBI
Yeah , that is only option left for Fast-track .
All from BAE would ease operation,spares .
Excalliber if allowed to be Locally produced would be good . Till that happens we would be firing those Krasnopol-M only .
I was sure Indian ammo is being produced , guess with some help from Israel
Ordnance Factory Board
But.......
then Sudhir brings this news today
http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-...ply-artillery-fuses-army-causing-concern.html
Yeah, I am rarely online at weekends, especially not with such good weather here in Germany at the moment.
If VLAP still would be possible,
I would love to see a team up with the German Rheinmetall for Bhim on basis of the PZH 2000. It can use VLAP too and with proven ranges up to 60Km, or even more. Also very interesting here is the AGM (Artillery Gun Module), a light weight version of the PZH 2000, that can be mounted on several different chassis (tracked, or wheeled):
Compared to Archer, it has comparable weight, speed and range, but is more than 4m shorter and offers 360° coverage (Archer can't fire to the rear area). But more important is that it can carry 30 rounds of ammo, while the Archer can only carry 20, so must be reloaded faster. The AGM imo is very mobile system that can be used in any region and with the addition of VLAP should even offer good ranges.
So M777 and FH 77 with Excalibur, or Krasnopol-M for the towed guns and AGM for the self-propelled howitzers would be a good solution for IA, with different capabilities. What do you think?
The CBI wrote to the defense ministry to recommend blacklisting of foreign firms Singapore Technologies Kinetics, Israel Military Industries, Zurich's Rheinmetall Air Defense and Russian Cooperation Defense. Also recommended for blacklisting are two Indian firms, T. S. Kisan and Company and R. K. Machines Tools.
There are fears that the entire tender process might be scrapped and restarted, said Brig. Khutab Hai, chief executive officer of the Mahindra Group's Defense Land Systems India, which will manufacture around 55 percent of the BAE Systems FH-77B-05 howitzer if it wins the contract.
"If STK is blacklisted, I apprehend that the MoD might entirely scrap the tender for towed howitzers, on the grounds that there is now just a single vendor," he said.
"But, remember, three companies had bid in this tender, Rheinmetall, STK and BAE Systems. Even if the other two are eliminated for various reasons, this was never a single-vendor situation."
Rheinmetall was dropped from the list when Indian procurement authorities realized it was working with banned South African company Denel.
So M777 and FH 77 with Excalibur, or Krasnopol-M for the towed guns and AGM for the self-propelled howitzers would be a good solution for IA, with different capabilities. What do you think?
ompared to Archer, it has comparable weight, speed and range, but is more than 4m shorter and offers 360° coverage (Archer can't fire to the rear area). But more important is that it can carry 30 rounds of ammo, while the Archer can only carry 20, so must be reloaded faster. The AGM imo is very mobile system that can be used in any region and with the addition of VLAP should even offer good ranges.
If we talk reality -
My logic says M777 and Fh 77 for towed ones
ATMOS 2000 for Self-P guns , I favour it bcoz Israeli Army use their ATMOS system on TATRA trucks imported from India .
Why not replicate - here
Still , i would say
SP will be closely fought by ARCHER , ATMOS , CAESAR
France has been aggressively pushing CAESAR
On July 28, the MoD officially gave Parliament a list of vendors that have been recommended recently for a blacklist, and it reads like a roll-call of modern gun makers. ST Kinetics and Rheinmetall join the hallowed company of Soltam and Den[/B]
I have also got enough of your ranting. Thats what you learned being outside India!Kinetic I've had just about enough of your 'holier than thou' bull$hit. I don't know what's gotten into you but lately you've been talking like your head is in your rectum. I was born and raised outside India but I have never considered myself anything but Indian.
Here some basic specs for comparison (green = best in this field):
Caesar
Crew 3-5 men (normal 5 with 3 loaders)
Maximum firing range 34-42 km (latter with rocket ammo)
Maximum rate of fire 6 rpm
Main gun 18 rounds
Deployment time ~60s
MRSI (multiple-round
simultaneous - impact) ?
Note: Can be airlifted by the C-130
ATMOS
Crew 4-6 men (nomal 6 with 2 loaders)
Maximum firing range 30 - 41 km (latter with rocket ammo)
Maximum rate of fire 4 - 6 rpm
Main gun 27 rounds
Deployment time ~90s
MRSI 4 rounds
Note: Can be airlifted with a C-130
Archer
Crew 2-4 men (2 possible with auto loading)
Maximum firing range 30 - 60 km (latter with Excalibur ammo)
Maximum rate of fire 8 - 9 rpm
Main gun 21 rounds
Deployment time ~30s
MRSI 6 rounds
Note: Can be airlifted by the Airbus A400M
For comparison
Bhim
Crew 2-4 men (2 possible with auto loading)
Maximum firing range 41 - 50+ km (latter with VLAP ammo)
Maximum rate of fire 8 rpm
Main gun 20 + 20 rounds
Deployment time ?
MRSI 6 rounds
Note: Can not be airlifted
Going by these specs and the lack of VLAP, the ARCHER Artillery is clearly the best choice! Downside is airlifting only with bigger transport aircrafts.