First wargames with China in India

[Contrarian]

First wargames with China in India

NEW DELHI: Despite the recent chill in bilateral relations with Beijing after it tried to derail New Delhi's case for civil nuclear commerce at th
e Nuclear Suppliers Group, India is all set to host Chinese soldiers for the first time on its territory after the bitter 1962 war.

Defence ministry sources on Wednesday said the first-ever Sino-Indian military combat exercise on Indian soil — with counter-terrorism as its primary thrust area — is likely to be held at Belgaum towards December-end.

"A top Indian Army delegation is currently in Beijing for the initial planning conference to decide the exact theme, setting and level of participation for the exercise," said a source.

The wargames come at a time when Prime Minister Manmohan Singh is scheduled to reach Beijing from Tokyo on Thursday evening, to take part in the Asia-Europe summit, which will also lead to bilateral meetings with the Chinese leadership.

"Yes, there has been a downturn in our bilateral relations with China, which, despite promises, held out till the very last in the waiver for us at the NSG meeting in Vienna last month. But now, attempts are being made to arrest the slide," said a senior official.

India, on its part, remains suspicious of the continuing China-Pakistan nexus in the nuclear arena and the ongoing modernization of the 2.5-million-strong People's Liberation Army, with advanced trans-border military capabilities and a wide array of long-range nuclear-tipped missiles.

Then, of course, there is China's military infrastructure build-up in Tibet as well as its strategic manoeuvres in the Indian Ocean Region. Moreover, coupled with the meandering border talks, is the PLA's aggressive policy of intrusions into Indian territory along the 4,057-km Line of Actual Control in all three sectors — western (Ladakh), middle (Uttarakhand and Himachal) and eastern (Sikkim and Arunachal).

Nevertheless, the forthcoming joint exercise is being seen as a CBM between the largest and third-largest militaries in the world. This will be the second time the two armies will undertake combat drills together after the first ''hand-in-hand'' exercise was held at Kunming in China in December 2007.

Over the last couple of years, India and China have moved towards institutionalizing defence and military exchanges, with an MoU on defence cooperation and exchanges being signed in May 2006 and the first annual defence dialogue kicking off in November 2007.

Similarly, the military protocol signed during Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao's visit here in April 2005, goes far ahead of the earlier November 1996 agreement on maintaining peace and tranquillity along the Line of Actual Control. It lays down that the two armies will "exercise self-restraint" and take "all necessary steps" to avoid any escalation on the LAC.

First wargames with China in India-India-The Times of India

 

[p2prada]

Nice article.

Belgaum is only 700 km from bangalore

Anyways such CBMs will help building bilateral relations. Especially when there are plans for new naval wargames with japan.

 

[Flintlock]

India has seen some significant policy changes in recent times. Especially important is the "Look East" policy which I believe was initiated during A B Vajpayee's time. India has been increasingly engaging with SE Asia, especially Singapore (arguably the strongest armed forces in SE Asia), Japan and Australia.
Manmohan Singh's recent Japan visit was a great success and commentators say the visit transformed Indo-Japanese relations into a "strategic partnership".
The wargames with China were announced recently as well.

All in all, India has finally moved out of its earlier policy of isolationalism (which was borne out of the desire to form a separate "Non-aligned" block of developing nations), and countering Pakistan.
Unfortunately, making friends with African nations under NAM didn't pay off much dividend - it was more like the blind leading the blind. Nothing came of it, except perhaps a market for Indian bicycles, shoes, and scooters.

However, it is interesting that India is still unwilling to form a significant partnership with any one bloc at the expense of another. India is infact doing the opposite of its earlier policy - actively engaging with every country which seeks to engage with it, and making friends across the spectrum.
This obviously means that India will not be creating any strong allies, but it also means that India will essentially retain its "non-aligned" character.

 

[Flintlock]

I think the time is right to solve a majority of border disputes with China - especially the small "misperceptions" along the LAC. Both India and China can compromise on small pieces of territory, which may not have much strategic or economic value in any case.

A serious attempt must be made to convince the Chinese to recognize Arunachal Pradesh as a part of India - this could be coupled with the giving recognition to Aksai Chin as a part of China.

Good fences make good neighbours, as they say, and pragmatism never hurt anybody.

 

[Contrarian]

Definitely, but the problem is, China doesnt want to solve the border dispute. They have been deliberately delaying this problem. Infact, the Chinese have categorically even refused to exchange maps of the currently held lines, so as to mark out what the problem areas!

The thing is, they want to keep a pressure point open with India.

 

[p2prada]

Obvious. On top of that China has been openly demanding Arunachal Pradesh as its own territory.

 

[daredevil]

Definitely, but the problem is, China doesnt want to solve the border dispute. They have been deliberately delaying this problem. Infact, the Chinese have categorically even refused to exchange maps of the currently held lines, so as to mark out what the problem areas!

The thing is, they want to keep a pressure point open with India.

IMO, they will delay as long as Tibet problem is solved. They always want to hold on to a pressure point, in this case, the border conflict.

 

[Contrarian]

China has traditionally negotiated border problems and solved them when the other party has been stronger.

We are not going to gift Arunachal Pradesh, like Pakistan gifted Kashmir for good relations. Therefore, militarily, India must have local military dominance in the areas of dispute. That will be achived in a decade, even if the current modernization and acquisition process goes as per schedule. If India remains weak militarily and unsound economically, China will strive for tactical gains again and again.

 

[Contrarian]

China has traditionally negotiated border problems and solved them when the other party has been stronger.

We are not going to gift Arunachal Pradesh, like Pakistan gifted Kashmir for good relations. Therefore, militarily, India must have local military dominance in the areas of dispute. That will be achived in a decade, even if the current modernization and acquisition process goes as per schedule. If India remains weak militarily and unsound economically, China will strive for tactical gains again and again.

 

[vish]

Another dog and pony show...

 

[su-47]

well as long as there is a show, its still an improvement

 

[vish]

well as long as there is a show, its still an improvement

Honestly, I doubt that; this is a show because some babus wanted to score brownie points, but I may be wrong.

I would rather have given the local commanders on the border more freedom to talk to the PLA guys, but then that is low-profile.

 

[Contrarian]

I would rather have given the local commanders on the border more freedom to talk to the PLA guys, but then that is low-profile.

The border guards-ITBP have been explicitly told NOT to get into an argument with the PLA patrols that they meet on their own patrols. Instead they are told to take up the issue at flag meetings.

And the sad part is, Indian patrols consist of 10-20 people, whereas each Chinese patrol is 100-150 in number on vehicles a lot of times. We just dont have the logistics there.

 

[vish]

The border guards-ITBP have been explicitly told NOT to get into an argument with the PLA patrols that they meet on their own patrols. Instead they are told to take up the issue at flag meetings.

And the sad part is, Indian patrols consist of 10-20 people, whereas each Chinese patrol is 100-150 in number on vehicles a lot of times. We just dont have the logistics there.

I didn't mean an argument... what I meant was more freedom at flag meetings.

Further, you seem to know about the situation in the area, people I have spoken to say that the IA too often "lands up" in their side of the border, and that we are very evenly matched. You think that's true?

 

[p2prada]

The border guards-ITBP have been explicitly told NOT to get into an argument with the PLA patrols that they meet on their own patrols. Instead they are told to take up the issue at flag meetings.

And the sad part is, Indian patrols consist of 10-20 people, whereas each Chinese patrol is 100-150 in number on vehicles a lot of times.

HA! What do you know Malay. My 1 boy on the frontier is equal to 10 chinese soldiers.

We can counter chinese vehicles with our very own beasts, "sexually active" half horse-half donkey.

We just dont have the logistics there.

Thats an understatement. We dont have anything there. I have no idea how our artillery divisions are placed in NE. Our airforce is almost non-existent in NE.
They can walk in tonight and will only get to face our mules.